SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

IHF:

This is the first time that I have replied to this thread because I've found it so difficult to read at times. The fact of the matter is that from my perspective so far you have come off so weak and needy that I found myself wondering how she stayed with you as long as she did. Then you finally started showing some signs of independence and strength which you will need whether you go forward on your own or with her.

I just reread all your comments in this thread to remind myself of how you got here and the road you have traveled, I think it would serve you well to do the same. As you contemplate what your next step is it would serve you well to remember what got you to this point and the pain that you felt during this. I recall at one point you saying that you felt like a used piece of trash that she had discarded.

As so many others have already speculated, the honeymoon is over with her OM and the luster on the new shiny thing has worn off so she's is looking for a nice comfy pair of old pajamas to climb into for a while until the next new thing catches her eye, and you my friend will be right back to where you were when this started.

[This message edited by leftbroken at 1:40 PM, December 19th (Tuesday)]

I don't blame you for considering R. Many here will tell speculate about her intentions and tell you about how many times it has been a trap, but only you can make the determination.

I think all agree that the only way to proceed is with caution. It appears that serving divorce papers did knock her out of the fog as suggested here. Having the power, you are in a position to structure the future moves. I would tell her that you won't entertain anything as long as she is living with and screwing another man. She needs to move into a hotel or the Y, as another poster said, to even consider talking.

As everyone has stated, all you have is words. You are in a position to lay out the boundaries and actions required of her to show you she has changed. That is when she has the opportunity to show you if she's being honest about you. A big part of this is her seeing a councilor to find out how she could do what she did and convince both of you that it wont happen again.

What you're considering, giving her another chance, has happened successfully here before. It is rare, but it's happened.

"I've received your e-mail. Before I read it I'd like to know if you are still cheating on me?"

Blam. Simple and to the point. If she's still cheating on you then there is nothing to discuss. She doesn't get to send you messages like this trying to get two men to fight over her.

Excellent advice by Sharkman. Until she proves that she has stopped all contact with him, you shouldn't talk to her about R, or anything else for that matter.

If she says she's willing to stop contact or getting ready to; don't even give her the courtesy of a reply.

I wanted to bring up a point that I am not sure anyone else has about your WW and her email. When she had her first affair, did she say the same things then that she is saying this time? Did she write an email or letter back then or did she write a letter or did she simply talked and promised back then? What did she promise back then that is different now? What about her sorrow over what she did back then is different this time? compare the two responses and see if they are very similar. If you see real differences from last time compared to now then you have a lot to consider. If it are virtually the same as before then.....you still have a lot to consider. But please compare before and now. It might help you decide what you want to do.

I have the sense from some of your writings and posts, and her email to you, that you both share an idealized view of each other, and a romanticized version your M. That isn't a criticism BTW. There is a strong underpinning of emotion in the visual imagery.

Timeless hit the nail on the head. IHF, you idealize her and she idealizes you. First time around with OM, she demonized you and her letter to you now is all about her fantasies involving you. It's all idealization and unfortunately it's not going to get either of you anywhere. You need to be working with reality here. She's not going to care about you and the dog laughing and what your hair is doing when she has to confront your anger and the hard work it takes moving forward. Her instinct will be to run.

I don't knock you at all for wanting to R but you're right that you need to do this the smart way this time because a lot of her words and promises in her letter are the exact ones she used the first chance you gave her where she left for the OM. Even now she's not really committing to anything. She's committing to "try" and salvage things while still living with the OM.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A REMORSE WHILE THE A IS STILL ONGOING! No, that letter is not dripping in remorse. It's dripping in regret. It is impossible for her to feel remorse if she typed that email while sitting at the OM's house. Given how much she has lied, OM probably has no idea that she's about to leave him for you.

Sharkman's email is a great idea. Nip this in the bud now. If she is still at his house, tell her you won't even consider R until she has spent at least a couple of weeks living somewhere else first and has given you complete access to her phone and emails so that you can ensure she isn't talking to the OM. She has options. She can stay with a friend. She can stay in a hotel even. Welcoming her home with open arms straight from the OM's bed is the WORST possible thing for R you can do. Make her put in the effort first.

[This message edited by nekonamida at 3:54 PM, December 19th (Tuesday)]

The issue is since OM is a co-worker the relationship is not viable. At the very least it is a career limiting move for her.

We are coming into the holidays and she will not be able to talk about the holidays. She can not tell work and that is why she can't change address.

I expect this to go much like some other thread where all the BH wants is the wife back.

She will soon know she is in full control

First of all:

I need to fix my disaster and spend the rest of my life trying to deserve you.

Two thing on this sentence jumps out at me;

1. 'MY disaster', and not OUR. It is about what she wants, not what you want.

2. She 'deserves you'? How is she entitled to that? You mean your purpose in life is to make HER life easier, and not as a couple?

Christmas is Monday

- Silly I listed this one first, as it’s not the most important. Just something I’m thinking about. I could literally pick up the phone and have her back by Christmas… or, I could stay NC and let her spend Xmas alone or with OM, along with New Year’s. Idk why I’m thinking about this so much. It’s a weighty decision, having all the power.

Don't kid yourself. She will not be spending Christmas alone. If by the off chance she does spend it alone, it is probably because the OM has another family to attend to (I cannot remember if he is married or not).

The timing of her email is impeccable, use the festive season, which is dripping with sentimentality, to lure you back. She is a smart cookie, and would do well in a career in Marketing or Advertising.

It's the holidays. Once those are over expect her to change her tune.

Everyone gets nostalgic this time of year.

Good luck whichever way you choose.

Ithasfeels,

Hey Buddy, how are you doing? I wanted to check in on you to see where you were mentally after some of the dust settled.

I have to tell you that a lot of what you're going though is very familiar, although a long time ago but very familiar to me.

Have you responded to your WW yet. If it were me, I would still want to know the specifics of her current status...intimacy with the POSOM, living arrangements etc. I know you said that her leaving him was not feasible but if my M depended on physical separation, I would like to think I would find a way to make that happen....

Hope you're able to focus on school and your job and keep those as a distraction to this other BS you having to go through.....

Best wishes.

IHF,

I liked the letter. Lots of "I"s, yes, but she took ownership of blowing it all up and ruining your marriage. She killed it.

She is not blaming you for being lonely, or stressed, or distant, or whatever. She says she owns it and expresses a vision of making it right with you and making acts of contrition (deserving you again). First there is regret, then remorse, then contrition. Some waywards get it right away upon discovery. Some take many months. My wife had to get caught 7 times and face divorce papers before she ended the affair. Even then it took her another 8 months to fully confess (with two polygraphs) and another 6 months to really get to remorse / contrition. It was a long, long haul.

I would have preferred my WW have moved out of the house. At least there would not have been the blameshifting and gaslighting for a year that I went through. When I tell that to people who haven't been destroyed by adultery, they can't understand it. Believe me, there is nothing like continued lies and cheating as they swear you're over reacting and making things up...

Sharkman is right.

1st thing she needs to do is burn bridges with her OM. She needs to send him far away emotionally and physically.

One thing that really, really helped me was when I found out my wife's OM had been indicted for harboring a minor (17 year old girl) when he was 38. She developed disgust for him.

Because every bit of affection and love she has for him will KILL love and affection for you. You are fighting a losing battle every time when you are compared to him because she is living a fantasy with him.

She needs to view him as a demon that turned a loving wife into a lying, cheating, adulteress. She was adulterated by his screwing her. What once was good is made foul by him. He ruined her. She needs to believe that with all her being.

Yes, she fell for him, and yes she betrayed you. She let down the drawbridge and allowed the hoard into your castle to rape and pillage. She was the watch at your castle gate and she sold out to this mother fucker.

Would you ever put a person like that to watch the gate again?

She will have to prove herself for a long, long time.

I am here to tell you that even the worst rage-filled, spiteful, lying cheat can change themselves. Even if it takes 4 months or 2 years to fully come around.

She is still that person who cheated on you and killed your marriage. If you want to start again, then she needs to ACT and THINK like a honorable, loving, faithful spouse. She needs to recoil with horror at the thought of ever cheating again. She needs to feel guilt and pain when reflecting on what she has done and resolve to be the better person.

So here is what I asked of my wife:

1) Never to have any more male friends, ever. The only exceptions are relatives. Acquaintances yes, friends no.

2) Full accountability of time and communications

3) Abuse program (she was abusive before the affair and horribly abusive during)

4) Acts of contrition

5) Affair recovery program

6) Apology / confession to relatives and friends that she lied to and manipulated during the affair.

She needs to do some reading. Send her a list of 4-5 books to read with the first being, "How to help your spouse heal from your affair" my Linda McDonald. She needs to realize that what she did was worse than being assaulted or raped, and she did it to the one person she took an oath to love, honor, and cherish.

IHF, I can't tell you what to do, but I believe a marriage should be saved, if at all possible.

As a first step, you should ask her, "Is the OM completely and forever out of your life? Prove it to me."

Then,

"Why should I trust you now to be the watch at our castle when you betrayed me? Show me how you will do this over the next 5 years."

I would view her now as an addict that has quit for a day.

Anyway, I am glad that I stuck it out. My wife is treating me like she should have for the last 10 years. She is very sorry and contrite. She is working hard to fix what was broken in her. She is willing to go through the courses and read the books and to show me respect. We are not out of the woods yet, and I still hurt a LOT, but each day is better and we are slowly healing.

So the question still stands--If you want her, it's up to you to tell her your expectations and conditions to try again, if that's what you want. I recommend you wait a few days more and then ask her if the affair is over and if the OM is FOREVER shut out of her life.

One more thing: Things will never be the same again. Not ever. She has got to own that. There is no going back. There is different, maybe even better than before. But for me, no amount of good will ever make me wish that she had done such a horrible thing to me. While I do not wish that she had rather died than have an affair, it would have been easier for me. Even with 5 kids.

NP5

[This message edited by notperfect5 at 2:51 PM, December 20th (Wednesday)]

I liked the letter too. I wouldn't worry about the number of "I's" in it. When a person expresses themselves and their feelings, regrets, and poor decisions, you are bound to see lots of "I's".

Think . . . What if she'd written a letter about what a horrible person you were, and called you lots of names, and said things were your fault? You could have an awful letter devoid of "I's" and filled with "you's". Would that be better? Would all those "you's" somehow make it less selfish and more truthful.

Or she could have spent hours trying to say the exact same thing, but adjusting the grammar in such a way that she rarely wrote "I".

One might say that those who view letters as bean-counters might are missing the forest for the trees. (Got through that last sentence without an "I"!) Look at what she said . . . How do you feel about it? Are you perhaps not ready to read something like this yet, and feel you should have more time, and re-read it later? These are things for YOU to answer . . . really, things only you can answer. If you'd rather not think about it for a while . . . don't. Relax, and put it in the 'Maybe-I'll-think-about-this-next-month' box. You've got time . . . and finally, maybe, you get to call the shots.

(Wow, that might even be good advice . . . did you see all the "you's' in it !?!)

The letter or words don’t mean much. Her actions will tell you what you need to know.

If she was serious she would have been knocking at your door.

Better think before you leap

Sorry have no time to read and digest all the replies but would make one simple point, which some have already referred to.

I would respond by simply asking her if she is still living with OM. I would state that if that is the case then you are still in infidelity and have no intention of contacting her any further or responding to additional contact.

I would add one further thing. That the whole e-mail was a waste of time if she is still with the OM and that rather than being the first step toward reconciliation, it was another example of her disrespecting you.

If she is not living with OM then state that you are prepared to meet her but only with the intention of gaining more information about the situation e.g. did OM break it off, which would make you Plan B as many have said.

She could have quite easily found alternative accommodation before writing the e-mail, with friends or even renting short-term. She has no excuse other than cake eating.

You must show real strength in future dealings with her, if indeed you have any, otherwise she will not respect you and you will have no chance of true reconciliation if that is what you want.

Before you do anything, go back and read your first post..It is pretty brutal. Then read the note she sent a couple days ago. Can she explain such a flip flop?

I agree that the known unknown about her living arrangements is the thing you need an answer to before proceeding.

She may be at a friend or AbnB, or she may tell you she stays in the OM guest room because she had nowhere else to go. Big fat lie. That is a dealbreaker.

And don't take her word, verify where she lives.

FWIW I think she was shocked by being served and is trying to put things back together - however hamfistedly.

Try to decide what YOU want. Take it slow....be cool. Talk to us when you start to freakout.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 8:22 PM, December 20th (Wednesday)]

Hi IHF

Did you meet her at the beach today? How’d it go?

Take care

Just thinking about you IHF!

The letter is an interesting turn of events. All signs indicated that it was an exit affair for her and that she wanted out of the M whether she stayed with OM or not, so I am surprised she is now saying she wants the M.

If I were you, I'd tell her she can't come back until she signs a post-nup that gives you at least 60% of everything vs 40% for her in the event of a divorce, regardless of the circumstances of the divorce. You've really got to protect yourself, just in case she does it again.

She's got to start reading "How to help your spouse heal...", start doing research on how much her affair has destroyed you, start to gain an understanding that it is going to take YEARS for you to recover from this betrayal...see if she is even ready for that. When she realizes how much work it's going to be, I wonder if she's even up for it. Mandatory IC for her.

The most problematic part is her living situation. You don't want to take her back just yet, but to have a chance at R she absolutely cannot be living with OM...and I understand she can't afford to get a separate place. How feasible is in-house separation in your apartment? If she agrees to the terms, I'd say let her come back, but do not call off the divorce until she actually completes the requirements.

Also the job...I understand she can't quit until she has something else lined up, but she should start applying for other jobs immediately. Trust me, my WH continued to work with OW for about 10 months after D-day, and it was absolute hell. There are just too many opportunities for them to do stuff and you'll always be wondering. I'd give her a deadline to have a new job depending on the market for her position.

Christmas is tough. Please stay strong and do not take her back just because you're lonely during this time. Only take her back if she puts her money where her mouth is. Protect yourself!

Leaning towards R. Am still NC. Strongly feel I need a face-to-face meeting with her which I’m planning on Weds to assess the situation.

If you want to R don't rush it, make her BEG for it. She has to prove herself with actions first before you even tell her R is on the table. You are asking for a false R if you try to jump in too soon.

Update:

Did I make a mistake?

Met her Tuesday night. We decided to R. She had been staying at a hotel for over a week (before the papers were served, I saw the receipts). She seemed and seems to really want to R and like she's made a huge mistake. Has applied to other jobs, moved all her stuff from OMs place, etc.

But ,,, idk things feel different. I let her come back so we could try to work things out. Went with her to pick up things from OMs house, watched from the car the guy was devastated. So she wasn't being kicked to the curb. She really wants me over him but I feel so guarded.

I have these walls up I can't take down even though I'm willing and have taken her back. We are heading to the old city and are currently in it staying at her parents for xmas. Wtf this is so strange. It's like I love her but if she walked out of the door right this instance I would be accepting and go right on with my life. Idk how to describe it ... I'm wondering if because I feel so distant yet I've chosen to give her another show she doesn't even deserve ... should I have R to begin with ??

Will update as time goes on. But none of this feels either right or wrong. I'm numb.

I don't think you made a mistake. I think you can give it a try. Just keep those walls up and don't let them down until you feel safe enough to do so. She has to do most of the work and all of the heavy lifting.

2x4 incoming

Maybe you feel that way because you should be choosing her rather than her choosing you after a weeks-long fuckathon / taste test of her boyfriend.

Yay, you ‘won’. But the reason you’re not happy is you deserve a better prize than this. It’s not to say that R can’t happen but if R does happen her actions have set that back months, if not years