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I hope when you had sex with her you used a condom...she mentioned kids in her letter but you should not even think about that for at least 2 years, make that clear to her. If you were to have a child anytime soon it would only make things worse.

Her getting the hotel and applying for other jobs is a good start. As others have mentioned, she seems to have an unrealistic, romanticized view of things based on the letter. During the first year of R there will be very little of that...it's actually closer to hell. Does she understand that?

If you have time, you should get her some of the books on infidelity recommended here on SI as her Christmas gifts. Her reaction to getting them as gifts will say a lot about whether or not she is R material.

IHF,

This has been a momentous few days for you, and it is no wonder you feel detached from reality. In the aftermath of infidelity, many people are left wondering where their idealised spouse has gone. Their 'angel'; the one person in the world that they trusted completely; the person who would always have their back; the person who made vows and promised eternal love. In some ways, it is almost like someone losing their religion, which may have given their life meaning and purpose, and sustained them through bad times. When that happens, it is the most natural thing in the world to want that idealised good thing back, and we hate to have lost it.

You went on that journey, as documented in your thread, and you reached some painful conclusions about who your wife really is. And while some people stay together after infidelity, even if the betrayed spouse never feels the same about their wayward partner, your wife actually physically left. And you had to adjust to that, take on board that she was capable of doing that, and start making a new life for yourself without her. It was a hard adjustment to make, but you were making it.

And then...She decided she was going to come back. Only, after everything you have been through, and all the adjustments you have had to make, it is not your idealised angel who returned. It may look like her, but you feel like she is someone you barely know. And in many ways, it is actually wise and sensible to feel that way. For your own good.

I would ask you this: how 'safe' and happy would anyone feel in the presence of someone who has recently walked out on two separate people, causing both of them a lot of pain and heartache? I feel no sympathy for the OM, but your wife obviously said and did things that led him to believe that she loved him, to the point where she would leave her husband for him. And then she crushed him, by leaving him and going back to the husband she had recently crushed. That is not normal behaviour. It is dysfunctional, and that is why you feel detached and wary. Your instincts are trying to protect you, and you should listen to them.

That is not to say that after time has passed, and your wife has explained why she turned the worlds of two men upside down, and proven that she is unlikely to do that to you again, you cannot start to relax around her. However, for the time being, it would be quite reckless to go straight back to trusting her and feeling comfortable.

Getting rid of the dirt will take time. To get rid of it, your wife really needs to get individual counselling to get to the bottom of why she treats people the way she treated you and the OM. It would be nice if there was a book or a DVD that could make you feel 'safe' with her again, but the truth is, only she can do that, by proving that she is safe. It is not you that needs fixing, it is her. And you should not try to bend yourself into a pretzel to accommodate her unreasonable behaviour.

So what I recommend as your next step is to get her into individual counselling to explore her motivations, and how she can change to become a safer life partner for you, if that is possible. I do not think you should try to pretend things are 'normal', because they are not, and nor should they be. Your wife has a lot of ground to make up, a lot of apologising to do, and a lot of work to do on herself and her attitude to men. She has to grow up and realise that she cannot just walk in and out of peoples' lives on a whim, even though that is what she has just done.

In terms of who she is...Well, you had your 'angel'. Then the angel left town, figuratively, and literally, to go and be with the OM. The angel had become the betrayer. And then the betrayer decided she was coming back into your life. And you are wondering if you can live with the betrayer. That is where I see some potential, because with work and self-examination, the betrayer can change and better herself, and become someone more mature, someone respectful of others, and someone capable of truly committing to you. But she is going to have to prove that, and for your own good, you should be guiding her in that direction. She has to know that being back in your life is about much more than moving her stuff into your home again. After what she has done, she has to earn her place back in your life, and your heart. Those things should not be given freely, because if they are, she will see no value in them.

[This message edited by M1965 at 2:45 PM, December 23rd (Saturday)]

IHF....you say something feels off....actually it is...she's been back and forth between you and the POSOM and there's no surprise you have no confidence or feeling of safety with her.

I suggest a couple of things here...

1. could she be pregnant? (from the POSOM?)

2. you need her to be tested for STDs...

These are two important things to know from where you are starting.....

I truly appreciate you continuing to post and from where you are coming.

I would not jump into MC right off the bat. If you get a bad one it could cause even more damage.

Definitely IC for her.

If they continue to work together you'll just be in jeopardy.

You have a very hard road ahead of you.

Sorry for what you have and will continue to go through.

Do not put your plans on hold. Continue with your education at all cost.

If you have time, you should get her some of the books on infidelity recommended here on SI as her Christmas gifts. Her reaction to getting them as gifts will say a lot about whether or not she is R material.

IHF, this is an excellent suggestion from Liz. It can cause you to have a conversation that these books aren't a snide revenge/retaliation stunt. That if she wants to fight for her M it is going to be, at best, a multi year effort of the hardest work she has ever done. And even then, it may not work out even though you both want the M.

I've been reading all the responses and they've given me a lot to think about. I have a pretty big update based on the talks my WW and I have had tonight. We're still out together, drinking and talking and just enjoying the moment of now. That's really all I can ask for. The walls are still up, I'm still guarded...but now is nice. However, like I said, I have some bombs to drop in my next update based on tonight's convo.

IHF, We'll be here when you're ready.

I've been reading all the responses and they've given me a lot to think about. I have a pretty big update based on the talks my WW and I have had tonight. We're still out together, drinking and talking and just enjoying the moment of now. That's really all I can ask for. The walls are still up, I'm still guarded...but now is nice. However, like I said, I have some bombs to drop in my next update based on tonight's convo.

Really??? The walls are still up? Your DRINKING, and therefor buying into all she says. Good for you!! We are all very rooting for you. Good fortune moving forward.

I’m saying this as a friend. Quit drinking and go to bed.

Dude, your walls are still up because you don't trust her and your gut is screaming at you. We respect the things we had to work hard for. She didn't work for the gift you've offered her, at all. Why would she wait to join AA if you take her back, what is THAT about? How about she joins AA regardless of if you take her back or not.

I made my husband live separately from me for a full year while he went to counseling, then we went to counseling. We dated and I didn't sleep with him for six months (and this was after 26 years of marriage)!

I waited and I watched and I evaluated. ...And I questioned, everything. Words mean NOTHING, no matter how pretty they are. You know what was pretty to me? Him sitting in my car after therapy for 2, sometimes three hours, while we continued what we had started with the therapist. The day he told me that the TrackRat's son had gotten a job at his place of employment, and him telling me that he went to his boss and explained who the kid was and that he'd had an affair with his mother, and he was going to have to quit because he'd never get his wife back if he stayed. All without saying a word to me about it. So that, when he presented it to me, it was already handled and resolved. (The company moved the kid to another location, so my hubs wouldn't quit).

What initiative has your wife taken? Think about it.

You know your marriage is dead, right? Even if you reconcile, THAT marriage is dead. If you get back together, you have to build a new marriage based on who the two of you are now. Her, capable of horrible things you never imagined her being capable of, and you, damaged and hurt. It feels weird to you because you're not who you were before this happened, so you can't feel how you felt back then. It's all different.

On a positive note, if IF she does the work and you jump all in (a hard thing to do, it took me months to be all in) you can build a deeper, more fulfilling marriage than you had before.

We are married 42 years this year, are empty nesters now, and thoroughly enjoy one another. We hold hands, we flirt, we smile at one another across rooms and we're in our early 60s.

It can happen, but there's a whole lotta shit to get through first, and there's no shortcut. You both gotta roll up your sleeves and start tunneling through the pile. It goes faster with two.

One more thing this old woman learned from her infidelity experience: If they love you, they'll move heaven and earth to get you back. If they don't, you can move heaven and earth, and it won't make one bit of difference. It's simple really.

Thank you for your service. I wish you peace and wisdom for the new year.

I still feel like something is off. It's just a feeling...

Because she has done this before and went running back to him. You need to keep those walls up at this point and be prepared for the worse. Although you are working at R, now more than ever the saying; you have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it, applies. You have to be willing to walk away at any point if you see a red-flag, hence the keep the D process rolling, not that you are holding that over her head but she has to know, you are in control of this.

Rug sweep, doing minimal to accomplish R while ignoring the elephant in the room.

[This message edited by DeWittle at 10:53 PM, December 23rd (Saturday)]

GreenIrishEyes

Expertly stated.

IHF should read your post 25 times.

Thanks

But most of all, I'll go to AA. I know I can't come back unless I take that step.

We're still out together, drinking and talking

IHF,

I'd venture that she wanted to front a normal situation to her parents for the holidays. Be VERY careful she doesn't flip back to the cheater with the OM after your holiday visit is done. CYA and watch your six, something's rotten in Denmark.

Greeneyes just gave you the best Christmas present that you’ll ever receive. I say that with absolutely zero hyperbole. Listen to every damn word

I really hope things work out for you. I hope you reach that point in life where you are truly happy again. But, having been career military myself, I think that when she left the first time you should have gone back in the Marine Corps. The Corps you could depend on as I depended on Special Forces. It is what I would have done. But I do hope you can work things out and have a happy and rewarding marriage. Thank you for your service. To you it is "Semper Fi" to me "De Oppresso Liber". Merry Christmas and a lot Happier New Year than the last. I do wish you well.

T/j

Greeniris, you're my kind of woman...lol.

Best advice yet!

We're still out together, drinking and talking

Drinking what!!!

hopefully nothing alcoholic!! You do realize if either of you needs AA, that anything said while 'drinking' even lightly alcoholic beverages is suspect.

I know it can seem necessary to loosen up, but if it's alcoholic beverages both of you need to stop . . . like yesterday, and keep it out of your lives from now on.

Your walls are up but from her perspective, it was easy for her to get you back and she had no consequences for her actions. It must also have been a big relief for her. IMHO you cannot continue to "live the moments you have missed" despite your guard for longer. Her coming back to you was possibly a subconscious reward for you, after going through hell in the past 2 months. Now I am not saying anything about love - you repeatedly wrote that you love her despite her betrayal. She needs to face the facts and know what homework she needs to do if she wants to be with you in the future. Fast forwarding to "happily ever after" is just rug sweeping and you are surely aware of that. I am probably repeating everybody else but that should just affirm the right way to handle your situation. Sending you strength and patience.

Alright, where to start...

WW and I went out on the town last night shopping and walking around (no heavy drinking ofc...calm down geez)--our conversations went deep. Real deep. We talked about everything. I don't have any concerns left unanswered. And when I say this I mean ...

It's not going to work.

I found out why she left me, what our faults in the marriage were, idk... we talked about a lot. I know a little too much now to be honest. It all boils down to this, she is still "confused" and has feelings for this OM. She came back to me and thought she knew what she wanted but once she was back, she didn't know again(I think sex played a big part). That of course is unacceptable. I also gathered she isn't willing to put in the work when it comes down to it. She doesn't really WANT to leave her job. She doesn't WANT to go to IC. I've realized these aren't things I can make her want and there's no point trying to change her mind. She also expressed she would want to live alone and that she only came back because the divorce papers made her realize she HAD to have me in her life. Makes no sense, right? She continually says she loves me and she can't imagine a world where we aren't involved in each other's lives but it's hollow to me. I told her there was no chance at keeping contact if we were no longer married --- no friends, no nothing.

Some of the advice given so far just isn't feasible, but a lot of it is when it doesn't involve financials. But not much of it matters considering I already know what I have to do now. Once the holiday is over and we're back in the new city, I'm going to have to leave her.

My plan is, in order to allow her to live alone, I'm going to leave the new city and let her have that apartment and move back to my old city alone. I'm going to go through with the divorce and that will be that. It really, truly sucks. I didn't get my hopes up to high heavens that we could work this out, but I did want to just see. The gut feeling was right.

Thanks for the advice and well wishes thus far. As I said, I know what I have to do. I will update when we get back from the holidays. I'll be able to get a job pretty quickly in my old city and I can enroll in school quickly as well to catch the Jan 8 semester. This gives us the separation with her outside of the OMs living quarters but I'm not holding my breath we make it through this. Once the divorce goes through I'll be a lot better. She just isn't willing or capable to put in the work. She's too emotionally confused... or retarded.