SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Tred, you were the first to welcome me here so maybe I can return a little bit here. This is just a really bizarre weird random thought; would you enjoy them more if she enjoyed them less? Granted its something she apparently loves to do, but what can she do in the bedroom to show she cares?

Man, that's a fucked up mess you got out of. Gotta take a lot of pride in the fact you turned out so "normal".(Wish I knew what that was).

Side note, it sounds like you're falling back into the "if I was man enough routine". Short answer, hell yes! Don't let her fucked up choices ever make you doubt that, they were just that, HER choices.

There must be a special place in Hell for child molesters.

Tred, I'm sending you a warm cyber quilt to wrap up the little boy who still lives inside you in. I'm horrified and beyond angry that those bastards did that to you.

I also agree that you were put into second place by the women in your life who should have been nurturing and protective of you. They abused you too. You did nothing but love them with all your heart. I'm so sorry.

I pray that your quest for answers and peace is sucessful. We are all pulling for you.

You've gotten great advice here, I just want to add a few points.

1. You seem clear that the shame of abuse isn't on you, yet you seem to take some responsibility on her A. Because you're "weird" and don't like BJs and she does, she had to have an A. I call bullshit. She owns all of it.

2. You keep repeating how you have the "perfect woman" who likes giving BJs and you didn't realize it because you are "weird". Maybe you're the "perfect man" because you don't like them???

3. I don't believe she loves them as much as she said she did. Maybe she loves the power it gives her. Or whatever her motivator is, it's a psychological byproduct of BJs, there is nothing physical to be enjoyed.

4. You are not weird. Most men like BJs but not all. My H isn't crazy about them either (how lucky am I!). He doesn't have any trauma around it, and it does arouse him as a foreplay, but he much rather come inside me. He never came in my mouth. Didn't suggest it and I didn't offer. I'm glad he doesn't crave it.

OW had him come in her mouth twice. She did it to impress him. She stopped once she felt more secure in their connection. Told him she loved it, but he knew it was bullshit even then. It was her way to impress and make him want to be with her more. He had to hold his dick in order to come. He just couldn't come from the BJ alone.

5. 13 months out still crying several times a day, there are most definitely issues here that require professional help. A pp suggested PTSD, I'm no expert, but it sounds feasible. I know you said no way, but please leave a window open to the possibility. I used to say no fucking way will I even be one of these weak ridiculous women that stay with a cheating husband. I use to mock them. And look at me now ;-). If infidelity thought me anything is to not judge a situation until I lived it. I had all these preconceptions about affairs. There was a lot I didn't know. Maybe you have preconceptions about therapy that are wrong too?

6. Fuck the asshole that did this to you.

(((Tred)))

It made me so angry for what you've been through that I was in tears.

Finding out I had just about every man's dream in my bed every night and didn't appreciate it enough to keep her faithful is a dagger straight to the groin.

You should know (intellectually) that it wasn't your job to "keep her faithful". I simply cannot fathom how, knowing your history, that she could not see why felt as you did. The fact that you could allow her to do that for you at all should have been understand as a massive sign of trust and love on your part. You never...ever...needed to tell her that. I'm sorry but it is too fucking obvious from where I stand. I have rarely felt so unforgiving.

You, OTOH, have shown remarkable strength. I've read other posts about how badly you still trigger. It is too understandable that you would now that you've shared this. And that is what you should give yourself at this point. Understanding. Understanding about what you've been through and the fact that WW's A's didn't just reopen those old wounds...it tore them apart worse than ever. It undid the recovery you achieved for yourself and this happened because it came from probably the only person you had no defenses against and bypassed all of your "armor".

Your name is interesting: Tred....been walked on a bit. Stomped on. I have no words of advice, just wanted you to know that someone out her in the cyber world gives a damn. Others will be along who can help guide you. But, we're a team here, and you need a team to help you get through this mess.

Finding out I had just about every man's dream in my bed every night and didn't appreciate it enough to keep her faithful is a dagger straight to the groin

Might I add my thought here?

As a BW who also loved to do this act and swallow... it didn't stop FWH from having an A so don't confuse the issue here.Also, I suspect your WW embellished this and thrived on it as a way to keep AP interested. You must know that is how an A works- they can't have headaches, are always in the mood for sex, are practical sex maniacs (when describing themselves to the AP) and who tell the AP they think the rest of us are boring as we don't want sex every hour etc...

Now that is off my chest-

It is very likely you have squashed your emotions and thoughts of your childhood abuse and it has taken the trauma of your WW A and your need to question everything (and your honesty to yourself) that has allowed you to finally fit the pieces of the jigsaw together.

To move forwards you need to recall your past (you have done so as you have so eloquently discussed it here); you need to face your past (you have done this as you gave evidence in court) and then you need to look at these incidents as an adult and understand how you as a child were helpless and in no way culpable or responsible for the heinous way you were put into positions where you could be abused.

You may never be comfortable with receiving BJ's and that is okay. You may get to a point where you may want to try to reclaim this act back by gently introducing it into your love life and that is okay as long as you feel safe with your WW because if you don't feel 110% safe then you will trigger and have thoughts of her doing this enmeshed with your childhood abuse and it simply won't work.

As someone with previous expertise in this field ( I am not a practitioner any more as, after years of helping survivors and perpetrators I found my stomach for the perpetrators turned to loathing and my heartbreak for the survivors turned to a sense that I could never do enough and I simply burned out ) you know that you need to deal with your childhood SA issues before you deal with your wife's enactment of BJ's as the two are entwined and so, if you deal with the first fully it will help you address your feelings around this particular act and should (in turn) help you work out your feelings about your WW's betrayal in relation to this act.

I know you have said you are not in a position to get IC for whatever reason that may be which is why I have revealed a bit about my past occupation as I really feel you need help with both these issues. My 'therapist' head is screaming at me to tell you to go get proper IC but my SI heart told me to reach out to you. There are some good books out there for men who have been abused as children and you would benefit from ordering one and using that as your IC.

(((Tred))) I've been reading and re-reading this thread, trying to come up with the right words to say, but thankfully many other very smart people have already said them for me. I have always been a swallower, not because it was crucial to my pleasure, but because the alternative just seemed messy when all I really want to do after sex is roll over and fall asleep. By the same token, oral on me presented a problem because I didn't feel safe finishing without giving a guy what he wanted, or what I thought he wanted.

And in a relationship, you should always feel safe. It might be your issue, it might be her issue, but you should feel safe enough to be able to both give and receive without the threat of someone tallying points. Your WW took what was already a negative balance and added to it. Do not ever feel ashamed or lesser because of it.

(((Tred)))

Wow, this site is amazing. I've started some posts before, but I've never gotten to page 3 in replies. Just goes to show if you want to people to read your posts, just put Blow Job in the thread title I've gotten some really good advice, and I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to share and guide. I think everyone here knows how special SI is, just thanks.

My WW and I had a good long talk about this last night. Doing this digging stuff is an eye opener for both of us. I can see why more people don't do it - it can get pretty brutal. I think we both have a clearer understanding of a few things now, though what I do with that is still in infancy. I'm finding out knowing why's does not equal less pain. It's like shoveling and hitting a power line. The shovel was getting stuck, so you finally put your foot on it and push through the dirt, and get the shit knocked out of you. I'm sort of lying on the ground looking around, but I know I have to get back up finish shoveling.

Thinks for pointing out that I was slipping into pity party mode, which is what I was doing by talking in ways that made it look like I took some of the blame for her A. It's not the case, I just go overboard with metaphors. As to whether her BJ talk and actions in her A about it being bravado, power, bullshit, etc. that seems to align with her point of view on it. Im not conceding the point, but willing to accept that it might be true. There have been so many lies in this whole ordeal though you begin to wonder what the fucking truth is. Her A behavior wasn't too far off of our initial courtship - there are a lot of parallels in her behavior. So if her courtship of him was an all an act and lies, what was it with me? See my point? Maybe I don't know what the truth is because she doesn't herself. Or maybe she's been playing me for 20 years and knows it - it's one of the shitty aspects of infidelity, finding out you really don't know who your spouse is. I really only know what I thought she was. I need to get to the point where I start viewing what she tells me from a position of trust again, but that's been hard to do because there were so many damn lies. I think we've gotten to a tipping point, it's up to her as to which way we'll tip.

I believe she's getting it. For as hard as I am on her in my writing and posts, she's taken it. She does some incredibly brave stuff herself, reading my posts . For those of you who know her and post with her, be kind and don't let me bias you. She needs help too, and I wouldn't want her to feel that she can't come on this site for help because I've turned the audience against her. She fucked up, she's owning it, she's finally in IC, and I need her healthy. It sucks for both of us that in order to build me back up I need to post about how I got torn down, and I need to be able to put out exactly how and what I'm feeling for it to be of any use. Anything less wouldn't be authentic, and I'd be predicting the responses. I don't expect her to pull any punches in talking about me to her IC, girlfriends, or other support she gets if it's what she needs to get healthy. I just think I need to put out there that I really do love her, she's really an amazing woman, and I wouldn't be here if I didn't think so. Of course, I wouldn't be here if she didn't cheat on me, but that's life.

After we talked last night, we started working on our personal Christmas cards. It was about 9:30 and we were just finishing up, my mom called. My cousin, who was the closest thing I had to a brother growing up, passed away. He was 51. He was a lifetime alcoholic, and I believe he died of liver cancer, but I'm still trying to get details. I didn't realize he was sick. He had a hard life, all of it his choosing, but he took ownership of it. He was authentic, honest, and had a good heart. He was the one person in my family living who never violated my trust. I have very few fond memories of my childhood - most of them he was in. I had just finished writing his Christmas card. I'll miss him.

WAL, SLH - you guys are great wingmen. Brandon, thanks mate. I've gotten some great advice from all of you here, and been touched by those who have shared their own stories with me. I wrote this out to be therapeutic, and it has been. Today is better than yesterday. I'll take it.

[This message edited by Tred at 10:33 AM, December 1st (Saturday)]

Tred- I am so sorry to hear of your cousin. You seems to be getting it from all ways at the moment.

Please stay strong. The fact your W reads your posts and owns her crap is a massive plus.

To answer your question about whether she played you in your courtship days (because she did similar stuff with AP) the answer is no. She is just dancing the same dance as she doesn't yet know any new steps.

We all go about our life doing what we have always done until something happens that either illicits change in us (such as abuse in childhood) or we get to a place where we don't like what we do etc and want to change (which is what your wife is doing in her IC.

If you look around in life there are a lot of people out there doing the same old same old yet expecting to get a different result.

This is the main reason why rug sweeping will often lead to more betrayals!

Keep posting and stay strong.

To answer your question about whether she played you in your courtship days (because she did similar stuff with AP) the answer is no. She is just dancing the same dance as she doesn't yet know any new steps.

I agree with this.

((((Tred & Family))) I am so sorry to hear about your cousin.

And of course your wife is welcome here. I have never seen anyone not welcomed here who truly wants to heal and work on their issues.

Wishing the best for both of you and sending healing thoughts for your loss.

I am truly heartsick to read about the hell you were put through as a child!!!

From everything I have read in this thread, it sounds as if both you and your wife have the courage to keep digging through your own particular piles of shit.

During my own recovery, I actually came to welcome the horrible pain of searching for the truth as a friend and a teacher. The only way to progress was to keep going straight through the worst of it. Try to dodge and avoid the pain, and you miss the lesson and stop your own growth.

((((Tred))))

Tred, you seem like such a great guy and someone I would like to have as a friend IRL. I'm sorry to hear about the childhood abuse and now your cousin passing away.

I don't intend to t/j but I just wanted to tell you this because you have no idea how much you just helped me and gave me much to think about. I have never told a soul this before and I'm feeling brave now because you started it plus I still have my anonymity here! I was molested by an older cousin when I was about 10 or 11. He had discovered fairly recently at the time that he was gay and he wanted to show me how great bj's were. I had no idea what that even was then or that people did that! He did it to me several times and I never really tried to stop him because, well...it felt good After those few times in a couple week period I began to feel confused and ashamed about it and I've always avoided him ever since.

I never drew the connection before reading your revelation Tred. I've never cared for bj's myself and NEVER asked my STBXWW for them, but never refused them when she would initiate. I'd just...um...muster through but it always felt 'dirty' to me and I secretly wished she wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't dare tell her that because I'm a man and I'm supposed to LOVE that...I thought it was the holy grail of sex! She wasn't overly fond of me finishing in her mouth though but on rare occasions she wouldn't let me pull out when I was almost done, and she would make me come in her mouth. That was her way of 'special' sex I guess...you know, my birthday, our anniversary, or perhaps it was a reward when I bought her something really nice or caved in on letting her keep the latest stray cat/dog Yet she would never swallow so on those rare times when I 'finished' in her mouth, she would immediately up and run to the bathroom to spit it out. Little did she know that I already felt this was a 'dirty' act that I didn't want to do...but she compounded the problem for me by making me feel worse as I watched her run off! We actually had a pretty big fight about this about a year ago when she must have finally picked up on my lack of enthusiasm and we never did it again, and never talked about it. I could tell she felt unappreciated for doing something for me that she didn't particularly like but no way in hell would I explain to her why.

Until I just read your first post...I honestly felt abnormal and like I must be the only guy in the world who doesn't care if I ever had a bj again. I never ever thought about why that was but it makes so much sense what you said and I now wonder if that's the reason for me as well. I guess it just goes to show you that child molestation really does mess up kids for life in all kinds of ways, regardless of gender too.

Thank you for posting this Tred! I don't like the reason that you have to post here, but I'm glad that I (virtually) met you through this place and always enjoy reading your often thought-provoking and humorous posts. I wish you the best of luck in sorting everything out and the fact that you survived the type of childhood you endured and came out as intelligent and cool as you are amazes me! Bro hugs dude

PJ,

Bro hugs back at ya man. Maybe there should be an ICR forum for "Dudes who hate BJ's because the were molested as a child" or something. I had a lot of trouble posting this. I cried for several nights in a row prior to getting the courage to write this out. I was laying in bed, holding my WW, and the tears started flowing again. I knew I had to get it out, and what really gave me courage was knowing that I've read some horrible stuff on this site, I wasn't the first one offering up their vulnerability to an online forum where you felt safe to do so. The SI community gave me the courage, I was certain I wouldn't be ridiculed, pretty sure I'd get some stuff wrong, but knew that I would get support. If anyone takes anything at all away from this thread, I hope that's it - you might not get the support you want here, but you'll get the support you need. I'm not special, nothings happened to me that hasn't happened to thousands of kids, some so much worse that it breaks your heart. I'm not the first man cheated on, everything my WW did to me another woman has done to another man, or vice versa. The only thing different is my narrative.

It all hurts. It all sucks. I'm sure that with enough hard work, you can get over it. The hard part is finding out what you need to fix - this connection isn't superficial. There's a whole lot of side effects as well, but I think identifying the epicenter of the quake and dealing with that makes handling the tremors a little easier. I don't want to just repave the cracks, I want to make sure that they don't happen ever again.

I'm not the first man cheated on, everything my WW did to me another woman has done to another man, or vice versa. The only thing different is my narrative

This just hit me like a shit ton of bricks. Thank you for posting it. All of our situations suck but they really are not unique. I need to remind myself of this every day. SI is such a wonderful community because it is helpful to have this kind of reminder.

[This message edited by h0peless at 10:28 PM, December 1st (Saturday)]