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mpb-

Maybe it would be a helpful exercise to write a "do over." Not that you did anything wrong, but maybe you have some stuff to get off of your chest? How, in an alternate universe, you might now wish you had responded?

I am not saying send it, but I know I sent the AP a (in retrospect) rather too kind and hurt letter after dday. If I could do it again, I'd have waited a few months until the anger kicked in. Now I think she has this image of a benevolent me, when it is really not that way at all. And I wish she knew how detestable I think she was. (I think I even said I wished her well in the letter; I was in shock!)

I state both, because the state and church both have similar vows.

Mine was with the Justice of Peace, but it had vows that no man pull the commitment asunder.

I was just covering both bases. I am Christian, my fWH agnostic. Believe me...we have had our share of whether faith and commitment might mean different things to each other based on that.

Anyways, yes...I missed that statement. You are not making excuses.

You may be missing the point that others feel. Your WW brought this mess on you. Not the BS. Sure she should have considered your feelings. Hell, the OM and WW should have considered everyone's feelings. But, they didn't. I should have read the entire thread before commenting, but I didn't. Why...because I am human. Because I am a female? Maybe ...prone to be emotional (especially after an A). Prone to react first.

I think that is all this woman did. React first. With blind rage.

Does it bother you that you can't get closure with that? Is it that you wish you could contact the BW and get an apology? An explanation?

She wasn't thinking about you. She was thinking about her pain.

Who knows, maybe she was wishing you would do the same to her husband?

But, I do agree with most of the others. There is no free wild card to do whatever you wish. Like defacing a car. Submitting on She's a homewrecker and such. But a call, a letter to vent how she feels and thinks? I really don't think that is so bad. I don't think she thought you would take it so personally.

Who is at fault? The one that had the guts to do what you yourself said you wanted to do. Can you blame her for not showing some restraint? She probably has no idea it even bothered you.

Again, I am still missing why these things bothered you so much at the time? I was so angry at my husband after Dday, I would have welcomed the bBF of the OW calling my fWH out.

If it is because you didn't want your WW to be disrespected, then I sure as Hell hope she appreciates you now. That is true integrity and honor on your half to still stick up for your cheating wife through all your pain.

I agree with mpb's general theme. We're allowed to be hurt, and we're allowed to lash out (legally) against those who inflicted the hurt. But we're not entitled to hurt anyone who might happen to get in the way. Because, well, we share this world with others and it really doesn't revolve around us and our private miseries. My WW's AP is divorced, childless, and lives alone. But if he was married with children, I can't imagine doing anything that would bring even more chaos and anxiety in his wife and children's lives. Living with him would be punishment enough.

Mpb has his hands full with his WW. The OBS needs to back off if this behavior is still going on 15 months later. IMO he should take whatever reasonable and legal steps necessary to get her out of his life.

Having said that...no one can be expected to be rational or sane in the weeks or first few months after D Day. Mpb, it's not clear from your post whether this is ongoing behavior, or behavior that occurred shortly after D Day that is no longer occurring. If it's the former, we have an anger management problem that might be approaching scary. If it's the latter, then it's not clear to me what the issue is - she lashed out early on, got it off her chest, and is now moving on with her life.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 5:06 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)]

It sounds as if you may have some displaced anger.

You are directing your anger away from the actual target, your WW whose actions, lack of compassion, and full out deceit caused such tremendous pain in the life of another, onto a target (other BS).

Displaced anger is problematic because it doesn't allow you to resolve the anger, it allows it to fester and eventually resurface.

This coping mechanism typically occurs when the actual target of anger is somehow dangerous to the individual. Specifically, the target of the person's anger usually has a type of power over the individual that prevents him or her from expressing anger.

Have you discussed this with your WW? Let her know that her affair has caused you pain in so many ways, including the pain you feel from the other BS need to lash out at your WW.

[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 4:49 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)]

Well, I get where you are coming from. Right or wrong, justified or not, you are upset that she added to your pain. I'm sorry.

My biggest confrontation with OM was a drunken 2am phone call on dday. He didn't answer. Like you, he was really not much of a factor in this for me.

I might add, if you're reading OP, that I had one crazy day after each Dday with each OW - the day after I caught him. Other than that, they haven't heard from me. I got that over with and then on to attempting to heal with fWH.

mpb,

im of the crowd that yes, while our spouses brought this on us, the ap bears responsibility too.

it takes two to tango yes?

everyone knows its wrong to sleep with another person's spouse. most would never cross that line. if they do, they are responsible too.

however, i'm sorry you have suffered further from the ap's betrayed spouse. why not just let it go if it has stopped. it was done as a reaction to extreme pain. let it go based on that and focus on your healing.

good luck

mpb-

I think that you have every right to be ticked off that the BW lost it. Logic, empathy and sense are great and important characteristics, but sometimes you just feel like you feel. If the BW can be granted some flexibility with her anger and pain- I personally believe that you deserve the same courtesy.

I encourage you to look at it, not to come to some complete understanding of those events or the feelings they invoked-- you may never be able to do that, but to get to acceptance. For you. Maybe you accept that you resent her, but stop feeding it time and anger in the present. BTW- I know it is a lot easier to say than to do..

I don't think it is easy. Acceptance is a pretty big hurdle. It may take you time to get there.

Strangers on the street have never "made a vow" not to walk up and kick me in the back, however they still deserve the consequences, even if my husband kicked me simultaneously..I feel awful for you that ur home which should be your safe haven was the vehicle the bw used to vent..while I like to think I would have considered the obs' in the equation I am thinking from a state of mind that im sure the ap's wife was not in at the heat of the moment...unfortunately I do think the fact that ur ww gifted the obs with any sort of a gift or present after sleeping with the ap, it takes the "the anger should be toward the ws" to a different place, to where it was a more personalized betrayal than if it was a random truly unknown ap...and I agree ur ww's ap IS lucky you did not show up on his doorstep, as ur ww is lucky the bw chose to return the gift via the mailman rather than depositing it where the sun dont shine in person...I am not condoning any violence, as I am the bw in a double betrayal between wh n the live in nanny and I did not attack anybody however I did go off the rails and respond In venemous ways with a rage I never knew I was capable of, I was unhinged and was almost out of control but the scary reality is many times violence and even murder happen in the aftermath of infidelity....as a side note, the fact that u didnt do any of that voicemail or mailing insults etc, even after the obs did, Is admiral and demonstrative of you caring about others and being considerate of people even in the throes of ur own pain..I just wanted to voice that the obs' would probably feel awful if she knew u were caused any pain by her, I hate this pain for everybody, ur ww included...

Quite a few posts to reply to- thanks for all the feedback. Before proceeding, I will make the possibly false assumption that a majority of those that have responded to my post are betrayed women with children. I think that may be one of the factors leading to why I have been surprised by the number of views contrary to mine on this subject. Please keep in mind that I am posting as a male BS without children, with an entirely different perception of things.....

jackie89- to suggest you are personally upset because I as a fellow BS did not properly recognize the significance of pain caused for you misses the point of my post entirely. I am referring to my pain here; the pain of being subjected to toxic messages which I am otherwise unable to avoid, in the midst of the biggest tragedy of my life. This was a choice on the BS's behalf and was not necessary. How do I know this? I'm a BS and did not send anything like this the other BS's way.

"So your WW brought this onto YOUR LIFE."

She brought the A into my life, yes. The hurtful comments directed at her post-discovery, to which I was subjected, were brought into my life by the BS. I'm here telling you that I AM A BS. I have been where you have been. My pain is as real as yours. I DID NOT send any vicious correspondence to the BS's residence, which is to say that it is NOT necessary regardless of the situation.

"She trying to commit suicide - maybe that was a last attempt at getting attention, maybe she is really depressed over loosing the AP or the possibility of everyone knowing what kind of person she is - I don't know. But I'm really sorry, no sympathy coming out of me."

I'm not asking you for sympathy for my WW's suicide attempt, and that aspect is not directly relevant to the topic, other than to say that it left me in a more sensitive state than I otherwise would have been in, meaning that BS's comments were even less helpful to me. If you have no sympathy for THAT, you really should be sorry.

"my OW was a friend - that became a friend after starting with an EA - then PA with my husband - which I think makes it worst. It was deliberate, also befriended my kids, had dinner at my house numerous times. YES, my husband ALLOWED her to enter my life"

That is all that needs to be said. Your husband had agreed to the task of providing you with extraordinary care, more so than any other human on earth. He was more accountable to you than anyone. He deserves the blame for failing you and your marriage by having an A. You characterize the OW as a 'friend', but indicate that she became so after already starting inappropriate conduct with your husband. As such, the OW never was and could never have been your friend. Friends don't violate the sanctity of other people's relationships. Therefore, she was little more than a stranger to you. How much loyalty can you expect from a stranger? How much loyalty did you have a right to expect from your husband? I think this makes it clear who shoulders the blame.

finallyfree2011- thanks for your comment. You are one of the very few that seems to empathize with my position. Again, this may be due to many of the posters on her having more in common with the BS in my situation.

bionicgal- I think that my anger stems not so much from what I would have liked to say to the AP after discovery but did not, and more so that the BS felt compelled to subject me to her anger instead of leaving us alone as I left them alone. Hearing the wondrous way in which BS characterized AP on FB afterwards did not help. This is just anger that I am going to have to process, and perhaps I can take some comfort in knowing that I remained stoic enough to respect the BS's privacy after the fallout of discovery. What is curious to me is that so many here have responded with disbelief that I would react with such irritation at BS's reactions to WW, feeling that WW fully deserved them, but I have not heard anyone encouraging me to have done the same. BS and I were equally destroyed, why should her anger be any more validated than mine?

hopefulmother- thanks for your clarifications. I would never suggest that the BS did not have a right to her anger against my WW. I just feel that she did not regard me in any respectful way in expressing it. It is not so much 'sticking up for my cheating wife' as much as it is recognizing that vitriolic comments at a time when the pain level is already unbearable adds insult to injury. I did not hurt BS, yet I was hurt by her need to vent to my WW in such a blatant way.

Sal1995- thanks for the supportive comments. Again, you seem to be one of the few that grasps my theme here.

RidingHealingRoad- your comment about my displaced anger seems fundamentally contradictory if you are supporting the BS's actions. Would not the BS also be required to direct her anger towards her husband, whose actions, lack of compassion, and full out deceit

also caused such tremendous pain in the life of another? You could apply verbatim your comment to the BS and how she should have responded after discovery, instead of subjecting me indirectly to her wrath. In terms of discussion with my WW, we have been in weekly MC for the last 14 months, so indeed this has been addressed.

kiki- I am trying to let this go and one of the ways to do this was to address it on the board here. Thanks for your support.

redrock- I don't think my resentment for her is as strong as I make it out to be in the initial post. It's hard to know someone for 4 years, think they are a part of a friendship, find out it was all a lie within a day and a half, then be subjected to the rage of the BS all while you are still struggling to get off the mat. Thanks for the feedback.

Tresemme-

'Strangers on the street have never "made a vow" not to walk up and kick me in the back, however they still deserve the consequences, even if my husband kicked me simultaneously.'

What do these consequences have to do with you, for example, calling the home of the stranger who kicked you and subjecting his or her innocent little brother to your nasty feedback? Would this not be inappropriate and unwarranted? Thank you for your other comments, they were very kind and empathetic.

[This message edited by mpb1974 at 10:23 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)]

What is curious to me is that so many here have responded with disbelief that I would react with such irritation at BS's reactions to WW, feeling that WW fully deserved them, but I have not heard anyone encouraging me to have done the same. BS and I were equally destroyed, why should her anger be any more validated than mine?

I think the point is, that her behavior is not more validated -- you two were just different. You want her to be wrong and you to be right, and I wonder, why you can't just be different?

I get that you don't like it that her behavior may have caused you additional pain; it doesn't feel fair. However, she is entitled to her grief, and hurt, and as long as she didn't break any laws, or violate anyone's rights (or, dare I say, help violate anyone's marriage vows) I think you are causing yourself pain wishing she had behaved otherwise. Look, people shoot each other every day in America over stuff like this; it is on the news all the time. I, for one, count myself lucky that the OBS didn't come over here and really hurt someone, or himself.

I think the offense comes from other BSes sensing you just wanted her to behave better, gosh darn it. (i.e. like you behaved.) Well, that seems very judgmental, and really, kind of like a diversion regarding issues that are likely more helpful to you and your marriage.

Obviously OW was never a "friend to ME" but I CONSIDERED HER A FRIEND. I didn't know about the afair Until 3 yrs later... 3 yrs of her coming into my house, 3 yrs of her befriending my kids. So I shouldn't take it personally?

I trusted her, because she saw me interact with my H, She KNEW, how much I LOVED MY H. Yet it meant nothing to her. I bet the BW in your case felt the same way about your wife. In the beginning, I took a lot of anger on the OW, but never not even for one second did I give my H an excuse.

After all the pain WW put us through, we now should feel some sort of guilt too, because it might hurt their Spouse? I regret contacting her, but only because it DELAYED MY healing..

She hadn't contacted you in over a year, why are you still angry at BW? Misplaced anger?

I am sorry for the insensitive comment about suicide.

mpb, I also felt anger, albeit very briefly, toward the OBS in my situation. It wasn't for the specific action he took, but because I would have appreciated a heads-up before he took it (he was aware I had asked my H to leave the house.) I posted about it here on SI, and the responses helped me realize that, at least in my case, I was not really angry at him but rather at yet another situation that was out of my control. I can relate to being frustrated at someone else's behaviour not matching your expectations.

That being said, it might help to imagine that, over a year out and with no further contact, she may very well be cringing at her own reaction. I treated MOW with more generosity than I needed to, and I am grateful every day that I conducted myself that way if only because I know that I didn't make anyone else's life harder due to my actions. It would upset me to think that any decisions I made then hurt the other BS. (In truth, my only real regret with regard to him is that I wish I had told him about the A myself. Instead I gave his WW 24 hours to tell him or I would. I do not believe she was kind about it, and since I genuinely cared about him, I think it might have been better coming from me.)

Perhaps by turning it around and trying to nurture some empathy for the BW for things that she is probably not proud of you can move past the resentment. I assume that is the goal here, particularly since you are working on reconciling with your WW.

cdnmommy - what a good point. Yes, she may well be sorry for her behavior.

jackie89- I dealt with a lot of the same things you describe. My friend knew I loved my H, knew my kid well, and quite frankly, knew my H loved me. She knew I wasn't a mean ol' wife, and that my H was not misunderstood.

I was never anything but complimentary about my H to her and her H, genuinely liked the affection she and the OBS both had for my spouse, and she was (admittedly) jealous of our relationship, to my H. So, W.T.F??

It feels very, very personal to a BS.

I think maybe the issue here is that you are judging the other BW by your own standards. Let me see if I can explain:

You are very stuck on how you left her and her husband alone but she didn't give you the same courtesy. But, as someone mentioned, people process pain differently. Obviously, you are a considerate person who, even in pain, is able to look beyond his own pain to consider the consequences of his actions and how it might affect others. While that's very enlightened, it is rare for someone enduring the most emotional pain of his or her life to be able to do that. Most focus on their own pain to the exclusion of potential consequences.

When our spouses embarked on their affairs, they took huge chances. People are unpredictable. It's possible that my husband could have slept with a woman whose husband decided to murder him. In our case, the betrayed husband didn't kill him but he called me at work, he emailed both me and my husband, and he threatened to come to our home. I knew that although this man was invading my life, my husband invited it by sleeping with his wife. Did I deserve it? No. But I understood it. He was hurt and he was angry and he wasn't thinking about me.

My point is that your wife took the chance of inviting someone who didn't handle pain very well into your life by sleeping with the woman's husband. Her husband took the same chance and got lucky that you were better able to handle your pain and consider who would bear the brunt of any contact you might make. You could have been someone who deals with pain with violence and he took that chance and slept with your wife anyway. He got lucky, your wife didn't.

You can focus on what the betrayed wife did that you didn't realizing that you are one of the rare people who stopped and thought about the consequences. If you're not sure how rare that actually is, pick up a newspaper.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 1:24 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]

Personally, I don't find it understandable. I don't consider what that BW did to be reasonable under the circumstances. She was a complete and total crazy bitch.

If mpb's wife were single, then maybe. If there was a mutually respected exchange of "game on" that often goes down around here where the BS's drop bombs on the WS's, sure. To unload with both barrels on his wife while building her WH up as some poor fucking sap that got played who is actually a wonderful guy is a pile of rancid horse shit.

Fuck her. mpb is ALSO a BS. She has zero consideration or respect for his pain - she is behaving like a WS in that she is abusing others, manipulating situations and rewriting reality to suit her needs for her own ends.

She needs a reality slap.

eta:

mpb, I am not saying you should take action 15 months out (unless this shit is still going on) - but I think your resentment and anger at this woman is very reasonable.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 7:21 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]

This is the list of what the BW did for a few weeks after d-day, and there has been NC since then which has been over a year (February 2013 last contact)

1. sent vitriolic insults via text to WW

2. left a few voicemails

3. sent back a gift WW bought OBS with the words "Homewrecker" written on the envelope

She was a complete and total crazy bitch.

Really, StillGoing, you think she was a complete and total crazy bitch? IDK, I don't feel that quite raises to your description of the BW. Whilst some of it may have been inconsiderate of mpb1974, I don't feel the BW really did anything so horrible.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 9:32 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]

You are very stuck on how you left her and her husband alone but she didn't give you the same courtesy.

Different people react differently in situations; this has nothing to do with whether those reactions are right or wrong. You may have a point that your own behavior was “better” and more considerate, at least in the eyes of some, but it does not change the fact many would react as the other BW did and that is just something that needs to be accepted at this point, I think. Not right or wrong, good or bad, but just the facts and fallout from the A that must be dealt with.

In fact, I have a hunch that you did not consider contacting their home or confronting in a way that would risk his family being involved. Not so much because you thought about it and decided the right thing to do was not confront in a way that would involve the innocent bystanders, but because you naturally do what you can to avoid drama. I used to be like that. Not because I’m a good person but because I sort of feared opening cans of worms and drama. Now, I fear feeling like a doormat MORE than I fear opening cans of worms. Life has changed me some. I'm not necessarily a "better" person but I am more assertive.

Should BS's husband have expected to 'get burned' by a married woman's husband?

Well, I guess my answer is yes. I was more surprised that the OW’s H did not confront my H. It is not like he was a friend, but they were acquaintances. I was told the man was violent, but because he never confronted my H nor would he talk to me about anything, I feel he is most likely actually a very passive person. I could be wrong but that is definitely my gut feeling. Does not make him a bad (or good) person, but it does make him different than a lot of people I know, including myself (though I used to be quite passive in my younger years).

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 7:58 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]

What is curious to me is that so many here have responded with disbelief that I would react with such irritation at BS's reactions to WW, feeling that WW fully deserved them, but I have not heard anyone encouraging me to have done the same. BS and I were equally destroyed, why should her anger be any more validated than mine?

I wasn't one to respond with disbelief that you would react with such irritation. I can understand that you just wanted you and your WW to be left alone by both the OBS and AP. That is what I wanted, too. However, I did on page 2 say that I would understand if you did the same as the OBS. I didn't encourage you to do it, but I would understand if you did it.

I am really sorry if you aren't feeling validated here. That sucks. Your feelings are valid. That doesn't negate the fact that the OBS's feelings are valid, too. You handled those feelings differently. I don't feel you or OBS are right or wrong. Just simply different.