SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am only still with her for the kids. I am filled with hurt and anger. I feel worthless. My self esteem is shot. My concentration is shot.

So you think your kids deserve a father who is filled with hurt and anger, a father with zero self-esteem who feels worthless, a father who cannot concentrate?

You are not doing a favor to your kids by staying. You also need to realize that forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same. You can forgive your wife for destroying your marriage and still exit this toxic relationship and walk away with your head held high. You will never get over this. Many here will recommend this imaginary "2-5 year" reconciliation period. But what happens in reality is that the BH keeps eating a sh*t sandwich daily, lovingly served by the newly reformed, super-remorseful, all-loving shiny new "f"WW who is out of this mysterious "affair fog". Slowly, over "2-5 years", the BH convinces himself that the sh*t sandwich is actually a steak sandwich. One poor miserable BH here even went so far as to say that he is glad his WW had an affair since it changed him as a person and made his marriage better. It is pitiful to read such comments. I'm not sure how you view yourself, but if you view yourself as a success in life, you will never get over this.

Don't fight your feelings. Grieve for the lost marriage, forgive your spouse. But do respect yourself. Do not waste your life on a cheater. There are amazing women out there. If both your spouse and you agree on an amicable coparenting arrangement, the kids will be fine. You will heal much faster and find someone much better. Even if you don't find someone, you have at least spared yourself the ignominy of living with a cheater. It's something no man deserves.

A lot of good discussion here...

Aslan, know that you don't have to make any decisions right now, you can let it ride for now and see how things play out without making any commitments.

I would however find another IC, and recommend another for her also, the one you have now sounds like a total fruitcake that is completely unqualified to deal with infidelity.

3.5 years is a long time. The 1+ year affair my XW had was enough of a mind fuck.

I can tell you that I am 100% happier not having to see her face daily. We have two kids and I see her regularly, but not daily. We get along really well as co-parents. There are some fights here and there, but mostly really well.

Really think about this. 3.5 years she lied and deceived you. 3.5 years she took time away from being a mother to be a mistress. 3.5 years she gave all of the best parts to another man.

To say you are Plan B is putting it nicely. She willingly wanted the other man and you at the same time. You for finances, him for love.

I am going to say that this will fucking haunt you. Probably forever. You will never get over that bit of information. I'm going on two years since DDay and divorce, and I still think about stuff that I found and the things she said.

I rarely lean towards staying with a cheater. I cannot tell you to do that. I think you have a slight chance of reconciling here, but you aren't doing it because you want to share your life with your WW. You are doing it for the wrong reasons.

Staying for the kids is not reason enough. Happy parents have happy kids. If you can't be happy with your WW, then I recommend leaving.

I am a way better father, a person, and a lover now that I am away from infidelity. I suspect you would be too. Sharing the kids can suck, but it can be amazing too. Think hard on this.

I am ambivalent about whether to D or R.

Some folks suggest it takes up to six months to get a point where you have enough information to decide.

I agree with what some others have said, staying just for the kids is not a good enough reason to go with R.

Once you're certain you're out of infidelity and if you have a genuinely remorseful spouse -- someone who makes themselves worthy enough for you to rebuild with, then you figure out what you need going forward.

asian18,

I recommend a trial separation.

Agree to spend several months living apart and sharing the child care responsibilities as you would if you were divorced. Also agree that there will be no dating. Limit your interactions with her to only what is necessary to care for the children. Continue the IC but stop the MC.

At the end of the prescribed period, decide whether to R or D based on whether you feel better with or without her and on how you feel about not having your kids half the time.

Wishing you the best.

How am I supposed to spend every other Christmas with my kids? Only share half of their childhoods?

My XW and I alternate Xmas Eve and Xmas Day. So last year I had my daughter on Xmas Eve and Xmas Morning, then my XW picked her up around noon and they had the rest of the day together. Next year my XW will have her on Xmas Eve/Xmas Morning and then myself on Xmas Day. I imagine when she gets older this will change and she will just stay with one parent those days, but I think the schedule is best for now. We each had a half day on her Birthday too. All the other holidays it just alternating years.

As for sharing half their childhoods...you will have their 100% focus on your days and you can always skype the kids on her days. Every day I talk with my daughter about her day, tell her I love her and good night. And you can always go to their events.

Thanks. It's something to chew on. I'm not sure my wife would let me talk to them in the evenings. I imagine not but who knows.

There is something appealing about having a break from being a parent every other week or every half week or whatever...

anoldlion,

I must say that if you are still there with her, after all you have endured, then you are a better man than I am Gunga Din.

I had to look up Gunga Din. Seems to apply...

A question I have is how are you still having sex with her, so soon after you found out what she did and how she talked so disrespectfully about you with her OP?

The post affair sex bump. It's a thing apparently. And a lot came out slowly over the last 3+ months. Each new revelation felt almost like finding out everything all over again...

I'll admit that now it's partly about fixing a complaint she had in our relationship which is that we didn't have enough sex. I've explained already that that was, in part, because she made sex a chore. She is desperately trying to keep me from leaving so sex isn't the chore it used to be...

How many times did she have sex, oral and/or PIV and then come home and have sex with you or turn you down flat?

Supposedly never PIV. Oral -- at least once I was performing oral on her a mere hour or two after he had. Not sure about her performing on me. She claims she cannot remember details or dates... But she remembers the oral on her thing because she says she was upset by it. Felt dirty and ashamed.

How can you believe she loves you, now that she has been exposed, after telling you she loved the OP? You are her back-up plan, her plan B. She had already arrived at the conclusion that her OP could not provide for her and the children the way you could, and therefore that makes you Plan B or even worse, she was using you to help finance her infidelity.

You echo the voice in my head that I struggle with every day. This exactly. I have told her that worrying about the kids is dumb that I would always provide for my kids. So she might live in squalor with her boyfriend but the kids could live with me in the nice part of town and attend good schools and have a good life.

You make your own pro and con list. List all the pros with staying with her and all the pros with leaving her. List all the cons with leaving her and all the cons with staying with her. It might be an eye opener.

This is a great idea.

Believe me when I say you can find another woman that will love you a lot more than she. I wish you well.

That same voice in my head says that I can find a woman who would never do this. A good, quality woman. And that then I would be happier. Maybe it's true...

Oldwounds,

Yeah, it still bothers me, but not as much now that I've been working through it in IC for 10 months. It probably always will bother me to some extent, but I'm hoping it will be more of a scar at some point and not something that haunts me.

Good to know that maybe time will heal this wound. I've just wanted to format the computer that has all of our pictures from that era on it. I really do. But a voice in my head tells me that I would regret that some day and it's probably right...

OM and his wife did visit my wife in the hospital the day our youngest sone was born. Weird stuff indeed.

Man. I am so sorry. That is freaking harsh. I'm so glad that my wife and her AP had the sense not to do that.

The only visitor we got from her work was an older gentleman who had an idea that they were having an affair... and he had told her to be careful because he had cheated on his wife and lost her and it was the worst thing that ever happened to him. He died like a month later...

Support is why we are here, anytime that I can help in any small way, please let me know.

Thank you!

redbaron007,

Many here will recommend this imaginary "2-5 year" reconciliation period. But what happens in reality is that the BH keeps eating a sh*t sandwich daily, lovingly served by the newly reformed, super-remorseful, all-loving shiny new "f"WW who is out of this mysterious "affair fog". Slowly, over "2-5 years", the BH convinces himself that the sh*t sandwich is actually a steak sandwich. One poor miserable BH here even went so far as to say that he is glad his WW had an affair since it changed him as a person and made his marriage better.

Thank you for your comments. The angry part of me feels exactly this way. I'll never be grateful for this. I'll always wish it had not happened.

OrdinaryDude,

A lot of good discussion here...

Aslan, know that you don't have to make any decisions right now, you can let it ride for now and see how things play out without making any commitments.

I would however find another IC, and recommend another for her also, the one you have now sounds like a total fruitcake that is completely unqualified to deal with infidelity.

Where redbaron007 represents the angry part of me, you sound a lot more like the cautious side of me. The side that likes to take a lot of time picking my next move.

I'm going to find a new IC today. I will probably push my WW to pick another IC that can help her better. She needs to fundamentally change as a person if we are going to continue.

I see movement in that direction but I need to see more and she needs to prove it's real.

Even then... I'm not sure it will be enough.

TheBest,

3.5 years is a long time. The 1+ year affair my XW had was enough of a mind fuck.

Right? Only a monster would do what she did... and it makes R that much harder.

I think you have a slight chance of reconciling here, but you aren't doing it because you want to share your life with your WW. You are doing it for the wrong reasons.

Staying for the kids is not reason enough. Happy parents have happy kids. If you can't be happy with your WW, then I recommend leaving.

It's hard to want to R with her because of the length of time and the huge amount of disrespect she showed me during that period. It's hard to forgive that. It's hard to want to stay with someone who did that.

But... but... I pause because she never slept with him. Why? She had ample opportunity. And for much of the period of their affair she wasn't on the pill. She could have had his baby if she wanted to. Also for much of their affair she was pregnant. She could have had consequence free sex without fear or pregnancy... so there is something there. If I can believe that she didn't sleep with him. Which they both maintain and which the paternity tests bare out...

After I told her to stop texting with him I had no idea that he was still a threat. She was always where she said she was going to be (I could check her with Find My iPhone). She was never late. No phone calls. She claims he wanted to carry out email conversations with her outside of the office under a fake name and she refused (or so she claims)...

So she seems to have metaphorically held him at arm's length in some ways... and maybe... maybe... that makes considering R worthwhile? If I can move past the hurt and the anger... which I do not know that I can do and which I certainly do not want to do right now.

Oldwounds,

Some folks suggest it takes up to six months to get a point where you have enough information to decide.

I agree with what some others have said, staying just for the kids is not a good enough reason to go with R.

Once you're certain you're out of infidelity and if you have a genuinely remorseful spouse -- someone who makes themselves worthy enough for you to rebuild with, then you figure out what you need going forward.

Thanks.

I had read to give it six months -- which would be through June 2017 basically. I plan to do that much at least.

You are all convincing me that staying for the kids is insufficient.

if they had the chance to have sex, they did.

Alchemy,

I recommend a trial separation.

Agree to spend several months living apart and sharing the child care responsibilities as you would if you were divorced. Also agree that there will be no dating. Limit your interactions with her to only what is necessary to care for the children. Continue the IC but stop the MC.

At the end of the prescribed period, decide whether to R or D based on whether you feel better with or without her and on how you feel about not having your kids half the time.

Wishing you the best.

I've been meditating on this since you posted it. The idea excites me and terrifies me.

We are transplants. She's taking the kids back to our home state for her grandmother's 90th birthday party. They will be gone for five days. This will be the longest I have been away from any of them in five years (since before the kids were born). I'll use that as a short trial separation.

A longer term trial separation would be difficult for us to execute on right now. Since we live a few states away from the rest of our family. We don't have the money to rent another apartment if we could even find one for a single month. We have only two or three friends that don't have families and that would conceivably allow a month-long temporary roommate.... But I will continue to consider it and work out the details.

Thank you so much for your advice.

Aslan,

Hope this doesn't sound harsh, but almost no man is going to stay in a 3.5 year relationship with a woman and not get sex in return. Sorry, but the chances of them not having sex is very slim.

My recommendation is that if you are basing any hope of reconciliation off of her statement that they never had sex, then to verify this beyond a reasonable shadow of doubt before proceeding further.

A longer term trial separation would be difficult for us to execute on right now. Since we live a few states away from the rest of our family. We don't have the money to rent another apartment if we could even find one for a single month. We have only two or three friends that don't have families and that would conceivably allow a month-long temporary roommate.... But I will continue to consider it and work out the details.

asian18,

An alternative would be to try an in-house separation. This would involve separate sleeping rooms and not interacting with each other most of the rest of the time. This is often the situation people end up in who are getting divorced and who, like you, can't arrange to live apart during the process.

Frankly, it will be a lot less effective in giving you a feel for what divorced life would be like and how much you would miss having your family together but, if it is the best you could do, it still might help you figure out whether you want to stay together or not.

I haven't offered an opinion about whether you should try to R or instead just D because I think you've gotten a lot of good advice about that. But now that we're talking, I will say, given that your WW has been stepping out on you for five or six years, I think the hurdles to you ever again being truly happy with her are enormous.

I respect you for wanting to keep your family together for your children's sake. I think what you have to decide is whether, in the long run, they will be better off growing up in a family in which their father is unhappy, or being raised by divorced parents, with their father leading a happier life.

Another thing to think about in this regard is what you are teaching your children about how to deal with marital problems generally and infidelity in particular. They will eventually learn the truth and will learn from you and your WW based upon how you dealt with it.

Whatever you decide, I would urge you never to lie to or mislead your children about your marriage.

[This message edited by Alchemy at 3:12 PM, March 29th (Wednesday)]

If you think she didn't have sex with him polygraph test and find out for sure.

Supposedly never PIV. Oral -- at least once I was performing oral on her a mere hour or two after he had. Not sure about her performing on me. She claims she cannot remember details or dates... But she remembers the oral on her thing because she says she was upset by it. Felt dirty and ashamed.

If you really believe she never screwed him & that she cannot remember details of the sex then you are delusional. Adults having an affair fuck like rabbits. She remembers the sex - everything they did, approximately how often, and how fun and exciting it was.

aslan18,

First off I want to say sorry that you have to go through this. It sucks... really sucks. I understand how betrayed you feel and the anger. I have been divorced for almost 2 years and even now when I think about it I get angry. You are not alone my friend.

The only thing I would say is don't stay for the kids at the expense of yourself. If both parents love and care for their kids unselfishly then a divorce isn't the worst thing that can happen to them. But if they are stuck in a home where there is no respect or dignity amongst the parents then I would wager that could do more harm. Having said that we all have our reasons for staying or going after infidelity, and each person's situation is unique to them so do what you feel is right for you and your children.

I haven't read through all the responses but a couple things stand out to me:

The therapist says I need to forgive and have grace. That infidelity is an addiction and my wife was addicted to this other man and couldn't help herself and that I need to be understanding and sympathetic to that. My wife says the same -- that she wanted to end it but couldn't.

Uh, I call bullshit ... I get the whole addiction angle but come on now. If you were married to a person addicted to alcohol, gambling, or drugs who wrecked your marriage/life because of it would that be ok too? Where is the understanding and sympathy/empathy towards you and your pain? Is she willing to do what it takes to earn back your trust? Is she willing to be sympathetic to your anger over what she did? Is she willing to be understanding towards the lies and damage to your self esteem that she caused? Forgive and forget is nice when you are the one that needs forgiveness. I don't know how locked into this "therapist" you are, but you may consider finding one that holds your WW more accountable for her actions. Addictions (if we are still going with that premise) thrive on secrecy. So instead of sweeping it under the carpet of forgiveness and grace, maybe she needs to have some light shown on what she has done to help disinfect it. And maybe focus on how she can resolve those things with you.

Oh. And this is the second time. She cheated on me three months after we started dating too. Again with a co-worker.

Sounds like your WW has quite the history here. It may take some time for her to work through this ingrained pattern of thinking. That is, if she is willing to do the work.

Unfortunately there are no easy answers or any one pathway that fixes any of this. Navigating this shit sandwich is tough but can be done when both people are willing to put in the hard work and patience it takes. But if at some point you feel like you can't do it, that is ok too.