SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

He also IC's my WW so he understands our dynamic.

He's not your marriage counselor, he's your IC. But he's giving you marriage counseling. And it's bad marriage counseling to boot. Dude, you need a new life. Ditch him along with your wife. You can tell her she got him in the divorce. He definitely does not have your individual best interests at heart and that's what an individual counselor is for. In fact, it would seem that she is snowing him in her sessions and keeping him from seeing clearly how harmful this relationship is for you.

P.S. I'm relatively pro-reconciliation, too. But if your spouse isn't remorseful, it's an exercise in futility. The sooner you quit wasting time on someone who is very clearly manipulating both you and her IC, the sooner you'll begin healing and having a happy life.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 4:45 PM, June 23rd (Friday)]

Dude, I'm very pro-R, but I would have easily filed and gotten away from her long ago.

You need to show you kid how to respect themselves, and not let other people abuse them, so think about the example you are setting.

If a mentally ill or damaged person picks up a weapon and harms you and continues to harm you, do you stick around and chance her finally accomplishing harming or maiming you just because they have issues? Of course not. If someone is hurting you, LEAVE! Period. She can still work on herself without you in the picture. He'll, if she ever finally fixes her shit, you can remarry her. But in the meantime, get off of the train tracks.

I'm only pro R when the WS is remorseful. I'm 100%✓hard core D when one spouse is actively causing harm and completely unremorseful about it.

File for D. Worry about working on you and Healing from all she's done. She is not safe to be around to help her deal with her crazy.

Nobody knows what tomorrow brings, and people can change if they really really really want to. But if that's the case, she'll make those changes with or without you.

Dumbest shit I ever listened to and biggest mistake I ever made sticking around for those 2 months of Wreckonciliation while he was planning on stealing all of the money I had saved and invested... because dontchaknow, he had a spending addiction and never invested or saved a dime from his paycheck. If I can help even one person not go through that BS then it's worth it telling my story.

squid,

1. Having the same IC is just so stupid to even contemplate, for all you know he might have designs on your WW maybe he wants a slice himself, he already knows she has no problems cheating on you, you need to sack him get a new one for yourself only, a better one than the one you have right now! One who will put your interests first?

2. You know your marriage is finished, over, kaput, perhaps it was never a marriage from the begging and to even consider To R with this woman would be a total disaster to your soul.

3. Waiting 6 months, that's time wasted to get yourself out of infidelity, there's no possible reason or sense as to why you should wait, FILE, FILE, and FILE instead of waiting!

4. Enough said from me, I believe you already know she will be the death of you if you allow her to continue to hurt you; it's hopeless to stay married to her, divorce her and get as far away from her toxic ways as you can.

Regards BJE49

P.S. Almost forgot, about you loosing your shit, nothing wrong with that, it needed to be done IMO giving her a full broadside of your main battle guns to blow her and her porus sinking ship out of the water was just the medicine she needed, WELL DONE!

[This message edited by BJE49 at 5:33 AM, June 24th (Saturday)]

squid, you and your wife should NOT have the same IC/MC IMO.

When I was going to counseling, my IC, who was superb in dealing with infidelity, discussed with me her feelings about how unethical it was to advise both parties in the marriage.

I highly suggest you find your own IC. A good one. You are listening to the advice of ONE individual for all three sets of issues, you need an IC to listen to YOU without hearing about your WW's problems. IMO you need a different set of ears.

Personally, I'd pull the plug. She is not budging, she has shown no remorse at all.

She is not remorseful.

Go ahead tell her that you are going to tell the kids that she cheated and you are getting a D.

File so you can quit hoping that she will get it.

She will not get it.

Run, don't walk to do the following things.

First, if she has NPD, you need to research Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome. This is NOT a normal divorce. The level of mind fuckery is ungodly, I"m not even joking. (I was married 25 years to an NPD). You literally have been brain washed. If that's the case, what you watch and read will resonate like a bass drum in your being. If not, well then that's not it.

Check you tube for videos, particularly HG Tudor, word salad and perfect sense as a "test" to what you are dealing with.

Lastly, WHY are you giving her all the power to make a decision? You have EVERY right to decide what it is YOU want. I've never understood this thinking but then I'm not "normal" exactly. I was raised by wolves, and been in human school ever since. You don't need to wait on her to decide, make your own choice and act accordingly.

If she is NPD and you want to reconcile (leaving is a process, I totally get that). Do the 180 immediately and keep your plan to yourself. It will change over time as you focus on yourself and heal. Do not hand her your power on a platter. Take back control of your heart, life, time, etc.

If I can do this, trust and believe me, you can too.

Smokenfire,

Overt Narcissist definitely rings a bell but in a more relaxed way. As does Perfect Sense, but more subtly.

[This message edited by squid at 3:46 PM, June 27th, 2017 (Tuesday)]

Sounds like you're getting some good advice here man.

So we talked more this evening. And she still can't afford me any grace that my erratic actions in the wake of her affair were indeed because of her affair and not because I'm some controlling, irrational jerk, randomly flying off the handle.

Sure, that's remorse.

Fuck it. Fuck it all.

She tried to compare/criticize me for my inability to control my actions in the wake of her A to her inability to control her actions during her affair. Let that one sink in.... My reaction to her A vs her actions/decisions during her A.

[This message edited by squid at 11:30 PM, June 27th, 2017 (Tuesday)]

Ugh.

I would just not talk to her. Cut down on your advil costs.

Squid,

“Get out of the habit of talking and arguing with them. Why would you believe a word they say? Everything you need to know is in their actions. If they’re sorry, they will cooperate with a divorce. If they care about their children, they will pay support. If you have to beg for these things, there’s you’re answer.”

This is from the excellently written book "​Leave A Cheater, Gain A Life" by Tracy Schorn.

I've come to appreciate that this was an Exit Affair. She has sought any reason to justify her leaving. She has focused on my emotional instability as the reason for me not being R material. She does not have the capacity to understand the devastation she caused me. It is just not in her. I think my realization and final acceptance of this will make D easier for me.

I honestly tried. But her heart was made up long ago. Her A simply fast-forwarded her original timeline, which would have been 6 years from now. Any hint towards reconciliation immediately post-A was simply an attempt to placate me from following through with D.

I'm heartbroken.

I think my realization and final acceptance of this will make D easier for me

It will and I know it's no consolation but you could have beat your head against a wall for a long time trying to get her to get this.

I'm heartbroken.

(((squid)))

I am so sorry for you, Squid.

I agree with so much of what has been posted.

Find a new IC. IF there is any movement on her part, you can do conjoint therapy with her IC and your IC. You need someone in your camp. Using the same IC is not healthy and very few therapists will do ever agree to this.

Make your healing about you and only you. She is gaslighting you. It's obvious. She can't deal with what she has done and continues to do to you and to the kids so she flips it around, rationalizing that it is YOU who can't get over it. Don't allow her to do this. Every time she flips it, tell her that she is making it about her and walk away.

Do not allow her to blame shift if and when you tell your children that you are D. She needs to be the one to tell them. You will know that you did everything you could to save the marriage and you can be proud of that. Better yet, tell the kids with a therapist in the room-but not her IC.

It took my fWH a very long time to get it. He went NC on dday but not fully-he didn't see her but did talk to her for a couple of weeks. Finding out that information 4 months later almost ended our marriage. But the real work on his part happened when I finally realized that he was still making it about him and made him own it. He would flip it on me when I was hurt, needed to ask questions, or wanted to talk about the A, telling me that I needed to stop living in the past and that HE couldn't constantly be "punished" for what he did. I finally said ENOUGH-this is what I need in order for me to heal. I told him that if it was too much for him and made him feel too bad to recognize and take responsibility for the devastation that he had caused, then he needed to leave the marriage. I needed to save ME and would no longer be trying to save him or the marriage. It wasn't until then that he fully pulled his head out of his ass.

I think filing will be a good thing for you. Take back the control - you will re-gain your self-respect in the process. I am so sorry that your WW is so blind.

Take back the control - you will re-gain your self-respect in the process.

The ridiculous part is that she is trying to say I am being controlling because I can't seem to see her display of remorse. That I am trying to make her fit into what remorse is supposed to look like. She insists that she has "her way" of showing remorse that isn't like everybody else. That's some narcissistic mumbo jumbo right there. And yet, her display of cheater behaviors and lies follows the Cheater Handbook to a tee...exactly like everybody else.

Yep, she's as unique as a cockroach.

Don't give her any more of yourself. Cut her off. Stop engaging with her. You can not rely on her for emotional support anymore.

Every time you engage her or turn to her for comfort, you give a little piece of yourself to her and she'll NEVER let you have it back.

She's looking for an exit? Make it as easy as you can for her. Consult a lawyer NOW and have an agreement drawn up that is favourable to you; try to capitalize on her desire to get out quickly.

In almost every case, you best response to her is silence.

Come here instead. Find a friend in real life you can trust.

It's gonna take some time to feel better, but as you start to take control of yourself and your actions and forget about anyone else's, the better you will feel.

BTW, calling the BS controlling is on page 64 of the Cheater's Handbook™

Squid,

Stop talking to her.

She's looking for an exit? Make it as easy as you can for her. Consult a lawyer NOW and have an agreement drawn up that is favourable to you try to capitalize on her desire to get out quickly.

I've reached out to my attorney already. She's sending me the pertinent forms and I'm going to try and apply for an uncontested D. We've already filled out the parenting plan and I'm in the process of filling out my financial affidavit. Our DS's will live with me as I am the primary breadwinner and my WW believes that they should be raised primarily by me. So they will stay in the marital home. And be with her every other weekend or, as WW says, "if they want to even stay with her".

As painful as this all is and will be, the more I think about the future apart from her, the more the sense of relief slowly washes over me.

she's as unique as a cockroach,

calling the BS controlling is on page 64 of the Cheater's Handbook™

[This message edited by squid at 12:09 PM, June 28th, 2017 (Wednesday)]

as WW says, "if they want to even stay with her"

My EXH used to say shit like this and it really pissed me off when he did. What a shitty thing to say!