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Did she know throughout the relationship that cheating is a deal breaker for you?

Did she know throughout the relationship that cheating is a deal breaker for you?

Yes

I don't have a lot of time but wanted to comment on this thread.

Welcome to the hell of infidelity. There is no quick fix, i'm sorry, or praise the lord i'm healed moment that will make this go away. The only way out of infidelity is through it.

I too had set a mantra of "I can't make any big choices of D while angry". This is a sham excuse to set an arbitrary date on a calendar and watch the days tick off. Until you start focusing on you and she starts focusing on her and both stop using the divorce as a fix you will struggle through this and prolong. Yes, you can't just divorce yourself away from the damage your WW did, because you will only take the hurt, pain, mistrust, etc. with you.

You will find your WW has always had issues with her self worth, self esteem, self image, and used very poor coping mechanisms to deal with these issues. Like compartmentalization, justification, minimization, and manipulation of self and others to feed the empty bucket she carried. She will find that no matter how she filled that bucket with those coping mechanisms it always felt light and empty because she couldn't just be happy with herself. This wasn't an accident there was many many poor choices before the first act of sex that she betrayed herself and you. The other man is just as broken as her. He used her comments, jokes, advances, and what ever else to fill his empty bucket. He was and is not unique just willing. He is scum, can't compare to you. You are the prize here.

So he used his access to her to boost her ego, make her feel special, made her feel sexy, made her valuable. All in a bubble relationship devoid of reality of life and all that goes with it, sickness, piss poor moods, toilet seat up, toothpaste squeezed from the top, all these things didn't exist inside this "feel good fantasy land". And these actors became each other's drug dealer. Only interacting when they could be cleaver or fill a void of time they were bored in etc. Pretty soon this drug/fantasy was more fun to be in than the mundane aspects of real life.

You can leave or stay at any time. I'm sure just like any other betrayed spouse we all loved our spouses before finding out. I tend to think you are leaning to R at this point but are using D as a hammer. There is no real punishment to fit this crime. A few key things need to happen for R to be even on the table as an option. Other than that you can choose to stay or go at any time just as she can!

1. Absolute NC, no exceptions, no last words, nothing nada. You should avoid talking to the other betrayed, other than facts. The other betrayed spouse doesn't have you or your wife's best interest in mind and is only a distraction from the real work. Immediate notification of any breach by the AP to you.

2. Complete honesty, open to all questions, and accountability. Trust is built over time. A timeline of events must be meet to your satisfaction.

These are just the primers. There are some great books to help you and her.

1. Not just friends by Doctor Glass

2. Rene Brown has some great self help books. Gift of imperfections is one that helps.

[This message edited by sneaker at 12:40 PM, August 7th (Monday)]

Like a lot of other posters out here, I find your WW's explanation behind her motivation to bring AP to your house totally illogical. It feels like she's taking partial ownership of her actions while dousing them in a politician's speech. How does AP or the image of AP become disgusting to her overnight?

She is simply not telling the truth about why or how he came to the house. Wanting to spend time with him doing something *other* than sex means that it was, in addition to clearly sexual, a very emotional relationship.

Did you get your hands on all of the love letters?

Did she know throughout the relationship that cheating is a deal breaker for you?

Yes

Yet, she cheated anyway. My XW knew this was a deal breaker for me as well. I was very clear on this point back when we dated before we married. Your STBXW was very aware this was a deal breaker for you while engaged in her affair. That is why you got the TT at first because she wanted to take away your choice in the matter, your choice to D. Truth was being leveraged out in small doses to get you to comply with R, minimize her betrayal, not be dealt the ultimate consequence of losing you. Hence, her R efforts are all about HER gain. Why does she not let you have what you want?

There is a reason you know this is a deal breaker for you. You shouldn't minimize it. Yes, there are members here who said they thought it was a deal breaker for themselves as well and changed their minds. I've been reading more these poster regretting that choice to stay and R more and more because now they feel they betrayed their own selves by not sticking to their "deal breaker" decision. I think true R is more likely for those who know affairs are a deal breaker, who then divorce, see their ex's fully own their shit and fix their broken to become a better, safer person again over time. There are members here who have D then R later. D is just a legal termination of a marital contract. She breached by allowing another man breach her. There's no law preventing you two from revisiting each other in the future. But, there is a risk (and a very likely chance) that you may end up meeting someone much better suited for you than your STBXW was. She fears this and ought to.

Save your money.

stop going to MC.

forget about waiting for the D.

She murdered your marriage. File for D now.

once a week for 9 months or so? and how many times each time of the 40 meetings?

Did she get tested for stds? is she pregnant?

Did she do things with him that she did not do with you?

Affair sex is the best in your wife's mind.

You have no way of topping this.

She has her wonderful memories of the sex with the OM. And in your home!

She must hate you with a passion to do that to you.

How would she feel if you had an affair in her home and about 40 * 2 =80 times?

will she sign a post nup?

forget her words. Watch her actions.

cut the dead corpse of your marriage off you leg. If she wants you after the D, tell her she can try to win you back with her actions.

And her distance from the OM.

Yet, she cheated anyway. My XW knew this was a deal breaker for me as well. I was very clear on this point back when we dated before we married. Your STBXW was very aware this was a deal breaker for you while engaged in her affair. That is why you got the TT at first because she wanted to take away your choice in the matter, your choice to D. Truth was being leveraged out in small doses to get you to comply with R, minimize her betrayal, not be dealt the ultimate consequence of losing you. Hence, her R efforts are all about HER gain. Why does she not let you have what you want?

There is a reason you know this is a deal breaker for you. You shouldn't minimize it. Yes, there are members here who said they thought it was a deal breaker for themselves as well and changed their minds. I've been reading more these poster regretting that choice to stay and R more and more because now they feel they betrayed their own selves by not sticking to their "deal breaker" decision. I think true R is more likely for those who know affairs are a deal breaker, who then divorce, see their ex's fully own their shit and fix their broken to become a better, safer person again over time. There are members here who have D then R later. D is just a legal termination of a marital contract. She breached by allowing another man breach her. There's no law preventing you two from revisiting each other in the future. But, there is a risk (and a very likely chance) that you may end up meeting someone much better suited for you than your STBXW was. She fears this and ought to.

Well put.

The way I position this with people where infidelit ywas clearly a deal breaker is to understand that the marriage is already over. She made the unilateral decision to do so when she fell in love and gave herself to someone else.

If it's a deal breaker it's a deal breaker. Don't let her manipulate you even further man.

She is simply not telling the truth about why or how he came to the house. Wanting to spend time with him doing something *other* than sex means that it was, in addition to clearly sexual, a very emotional relationship.

Did you get your hands on all of the love letters?

Oh, I'm fully aware that it was emotional. Regarding the letters, she saved all the ones from him in a shoebox in our closet, so I have those. It's maybe two dozen in all. He reiterates over and over how madly in love with her he is, how sexy he finds her, how good she looks naked, etc etc. His most helpful letter (from my perspective, anyway) is in May he wrote a 12-page screed detailing the entire history of their relationship, complete with exact dates and descriptions of what they did to each other on those days. So, uh, thanks for that, OM.

As for letters she's written to him, I only have the one sent to me by his BW. Of course, my WW claims that, even though he was writing her notes constantly, she only wrote back to him twice-- one of which being the letter I got, and the other being one that is still in his possession. Personally, I find it hard to believe that she only wrote back twice... but then again, who writes hand-written love notes at all these days? What are they, middle-schoolers?

The one letter written by her that I have read, though, is devastating. Some choice snippets:

"I'm not willing to give up - on this, on you, on any of it. I'm not willing to even consider it. But I'm scared out of my mind."

"Being with you make me feel alive, and reckless, and beautiful, and young."

"'I love you' doesn't capture it. It's a more complicated, nuanced thing than just love... something soul-deep. Something without a name. I feel like the best version of myself when I'm with you."

"A part of me wants nothing more than to run off with you and see where this madness takes us. That part of me is loud. ... That part of me fantasizes about starting over with you- arguing over the thermostat and falling asleep on your shoulder, wasting hours upon hours chatting about the most mundane things"

"I hope you know I am absolutely, 100%, without a doubt crazy in love with you. No joke."

wow! lol

realize, I am laughing at the black humor of it all. I've been where you are, so I know how you feel. Definitely not trying to rub it in.

I get the impression that she's portraying things very differently to you now than what you've quoted from her love letter. I have to tell you, there's a profound amount of delusion somewhere. the phrase full of shit comes to mind.

As you mentioned, she seems very good at taking responsibility in a grand, vague, not really substantial way.

You obviously have some self respect and a good head on your shoulders. My advice to you is to keep doing what you're doing. Judge her by her actions. You may wish to have some IC for yourself. Also, find out deep in your heart what you want. If this is a deal-breaker, then cut her loose. Let her go back to her soulmate. She should be happy with that.

But if you really want her, go slow. See what she shows you.

good luck friend.

Wait out your 90 days if you choose, and then D her. She knew what the consequences were and she did it anyway. She's clinging to you because you're more stable than the OM. Also, a cheater will never be able to fully trust another cheater. She can trust you because you didn't cheat; she can't trust the OM and she knows it. Of course you'd be crazy to ever trust her again and your logic hopefully won't let you. Save yourself from this drama. You're successful without her and there are many, many other women available. Choose a happy life free of betrayers, liars, and cheaters. Take care of yourself.

Run LuxuryJello Run!

Yep.

I would file. Every time you write something on here about what she has done is like a OMG moment in my mind. I was thinking exactly the same thing about her bringing him to the house. It was so she could bring the fantasy closer to a reality for her. It gave her a chance to imagine a life with him in your house. There is just no way I could stay with her.

To me it wouldn't matter what she says now. I would tell her if she is truly remorseful she will give you a very reasonable divorce and let you heal.

Let her put her money where her mouth is.

C

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

- Maya Angelou

sneaker: Thanks for your thoughtful post. I get what you're saying about the arbitrary day to decide on D. Like I said, I wanted to D from the second I found out, but was persuaded that it's best to wait at least 3 months to cool down a bit. But you're right, having the day on the calendar and ticking down to it isn't helpful to anyone, and would just force WW to rush through her self-reflection period in an effort to make as much surface-level progress as she can. I'm going to an IC on Friday, and will discuss the healthiest way to move forward with them.

harrybrown: Not sure how many questions of yours are rhetorical, but I'll try to answer a few.

Did she get tested for stds? is she pregnant?

We both got tested and we're both clean, thank god.

Did she do things with him that she did not do with you?

Haven't asked but I doubt it. She and I have done basically everything I can think of together. I'll check, though.

will she sign a post nup?

She offered once very early on after DDay (when I only knew about 1/10th of the actual story) to do a post-nup, but honestly it would be presumptuous of us to even talk about it seriously at this point. I'm sure, though, that she'd be more than willing to sign one if it got me to stay.

[This message edited by LuxuryJellO at 6:59 PM, August 8th (Tuesday)]

I get the impression that she's portraying things very differently to you now than what you've quoted from her love letter. I have to tell you, there's a profound amount of delusion somewhere. the phrase full of shit comes to mind.

You hit it right on the head, my friend. She tells me that her writing in the letter was an act. It was her trying to convince *herself* that she matched his emotions. She didn't really believe what she was writing. She was trying to give him what she knew *he* wanted.

...Yeah. I know.

So this has been my life for the last month. I don't really talk to anybody else about this other than the WW during our daily check-ins, which gives a skewed sense of reality. A skewed sense of rationalization of what she did to me.

Here is my two cents.

You owe her NOTHING. No date or timeline as to when you will decide about D. No decisions.

She owes you everything for even giving her a chance. And remorse is not "I'm sorry". Remorse is "I was wrong ....."

If her presence irks you - that should tell you something.

And I just don't understand how the CS expects to say things like "he loves me" and "he understands me" and expect the BS to forget all that one day after they have "changed their mind" - and are no longer in the A.

Seriously - do they think we are stupid?? We don't or won't remember those hurtful words?

I think you need your own counselor to sort thru this mess. Someone for you alone. Not to save the M but to help you process all that has occurred. My therapist saved my sanity during the A and for the two years after that I saw him regularly.

I hope it can help you too. You deserve better. Please know that.

Me: "Do I need to be worried about this guy?"

WW: "Worried how? And no, I don't think so."

Me: "I mean you're meeting up with him for 5-hour weekend meals, texting all the time, meeting up before work."

WW: "No, not like that. We can talk about it more when I get home, but like I said -- if you aren't cool with it, I won't go. If you are ok with it, I would like to."

That's just heartbreaking.

Have you shown her this since DDay? Have you asked her if the roles were reversed would she ever trust you again if you were the sender of these lies.

She should have been having 5 hour meals and constant texting with you. Not him.

I still say you both need to separate officially so you can get some life lived behind you without each other constantly being a reminder of the pain she has blasted you with.

She needs to let you go. If she really loves you she should actually let you go. You actually have to make her feel safe (ironic huh) enough, without retribution for suggesting it, to tell you that she wants you to go (even though it will break her heart - ironic again) and be free to work through this however you need to, with no strings attached.

It would be the only true gift she could give you after all she has done to you.

Maybe you are someone that can work through this over years of therapy. It's possible. I'm not sure I could.

Someday when she's talking to someone about the great loves of her life, she now has to put him in that list. I don't know her history, but he may be the person who has slept with her the 2nd most in her life behind you. That's major. It was no one night stand.

Tell me, how many love letters did you get from her when you were dating? How many of yours did she keep in a box.

I am a romantic. I am all for R and doing the hard work of it. But I am not sure how she ever makes you feel that she loves you more than she loved him.

I seriously think it's gotta be a case of you both moving on and maybe finding each other again down the road, hopefully wiser, and on her part, more reliable.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 11:35 PM, August 7th (Monday)]

You should buy her and her boyfriend a nice thermostat as a housewarming gift

Have you shown her this since DDay? Have you asked her if the roles were reversed would she ever trust you again if you were the sender of these lies. She should have been having 5 hour meals and constant texting with you. Not him

I have shown the text conversation to her recently. She got very quiet and said that she genuinely did think she had it under control.

To your other point, the crazy thing to me was she and I WERE texting all the time! All day at work, both of us would chat constantly, send photos, jokes, offer advice... And looking back at the calendar to the time frame in which she wrote her love letter, she and I were going out three, four nights a week! That's the crazy thing: While she claims that she ran to this man because she felt insecure and unwanted, I was putting as much effort as I ever have into this relationship.

Tell me, how many love letters did you get from her when you were dating? How many of yours did she keep in a box.

None. Of course, I'm not the kind of guy to write love notes, and I'd probably be a bit weirded-out if I got one.

You should buy her and her boyfriend a nice thermostat as a housewarming gift

lol I'll add it to the registry.

[This message edited by LuxuryJellO at 2:46 PM, August 7th (Monday)]