SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Dismayed and sewardark

Kicking someone out of their legal residence and forbidding them entry is domestic abuse. I know because I have led a number of men in handcuffs out of the houses they kicked their wife’s out of. It takes all of two minutes of online searching to prove I’m right.

He could ask her to leave and she could agree to leave, but then the correct way to suggest the OP does that would be to tell him to ask her to leave. Not “kick her out”.

Talk about bias and an agenda…

Sir, you need to get to the bottom of this. I understand you don't want to face the awful reality of what your wife very very likely truly is, but accepting this pollyanna-ish view of your wife's extra-marital sexual activities is going to lead you nowhere good. Get her out of the house, schedule a polygraph, require her to take it and be proven truthful before even considering allowing her back into the home she defiled. R should be a distant goal, if you cannot bring yourself to divorce her.

[This message edited by LtCdrLost at 1:00 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

yeah I disagree. not concerned with your or anyone's bias or agenda but giving good advice.

odd because my agenda will usually be to save the marriage. but first you have to lose it.

This is one of the rare times in 14 years that I have to disagree with Bigger, if I read him correctly. (Note: Bigger is considered one of the most knowledgeable and experienced people here, especially by me)

Telling her to leave is not the same as kicking her out. You need time and space to sort out whats going on. ( EDIT: I see Bigger addressed this above while I was typing)

If she runs to the OM, so be it, you've saved yourself a lot of time and wondering.

I firmly believe this is my biggest mistake that I made after d-day. When I confronted, I already knew it was bad, and I told myself if she denied or blames anyone but herself, we were done.

She didn't, but there was some tickled truth for self preservation. I agreed to see if we could work it out. I should have postponed that for a few weeks, and got my head together first. I contend that she should have too. Somewhere else.

A physical separation, in a different place, away from me and the kids would have reinforced exactly the extent what she was so willing to squander. I failed to do this, and I don't think the possibility of that ever fully came to her as a reality. The shock and confusion of being discovered fogged the picture of how close she was to being divorced after, then, 24 yrs. I don't think she ever "got it". She never had to "sweat it".

I truly believe the appearance of a quick reprieve, for lack of a better term, was detrimental in the long run, at least in my case. I never felt that she put in the real work on herself or the marriage past the first month or so. She did, and does just enough to get by.

I get Bigger's point about her beating herself up for being stupid, but in reality she paid very little in the way of consequences for her action. To her it was to get it behind us and forget about it as soon as possible.

I have no idea if my theory would have improved my situation in the long term, I doubt it would have made it any worse in comparison, but I will never know now.

Good luck

[This message edited by twisted at 1:21 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

I have to agree with one of Bigger's later posts. I had the same thoughts myself.

"Did she agree willingly to the STD tests? ..."

"...but two people at their age meeting in a van to make out… No. There was more and she’s not telling you the truth."

"Make her this one-time offer: ..."

And thanks for clarifying the "kick her out" opinion Bigger.

I disagree with Bigger in that there must ALWAYS be consequences.

This doesn't mean some abstract punishment as in his example, but there absolutely must be some things that she loses in her life related to this affair.

ISurvivied said:

HJ over his pants - are you kidding me? Are they in the 6th grade? When she says obvious bullshit like this you need to remind her that you are not that fucking stupid

My thoughts exactly.

Bigger's suggestion for a one time amnesty was similar to what I did. A list of questions, in writing, for her to answer.

Any lies or omissions found out later were going to be an automatic divorce, end of discussion.

At the time I had a keylogger on the computer, so I could go back and read her first answer, then see what she changed it to minimize a few details. She didn't answer them in order (damn it!) so it was a bit confusing. I learned more information than she realized from that.

And yes, it still wasn't completely forthcoming.

I hope this was a one time thing, for your sake and hers. You might be able to work through this if she is 100% remorseful and willing to do the work and you can get past the betrayal (I don't mean rugsweeping). TT is typical, not sure I recall anyone getting the full truth immediately.

As for consequences for her actions, she will pay. She has likely lost your trust forever.

[This message edited by trustedg at 1:38 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

She agreed to the STD test right away. That's scheduled for tmrw. I'm a little torn here...the A spouse messaged our whole world on what happened and the details. My wife has lost my sibs and most of her friends...most are telling her they are so disgusted and disappointed but here to talk if she needs it. I can see the trauma shock in her eyes and lack of clarity in thinking..but I need her healthy just like me so we can make these big decisions together. I'm not sure how to help her get healthy other than getting her a therapist and 'watch me do it dammit'! Here's one more...I relocate a lot for work. This is our 6th home thru marriage. 4 months ago I was offered (but declined) an expat to Europe. She is now asking if we can (a) take that role or (b) relocated anywhere else in the US and start all over as a family. My response was NFW (with a silent B at the end cause I'm still in angry stage :-). I know, too soon for humor. I'm not running from her problems that way. She needs to address her issues.

So has she agreed to find and attend an IC ? Have you thought about doing the same ?

I have to agree with bigger that the punishing your spouse does not have the effect you think it will. Nothing you can do to a WS is worse that what they will do to themselves if they have had character and integrity in their life prior to choosing to cheat. It gets worse when remorse sets in. Remorse usually takes some time.

Look at what she is saying. She is worried about she fears losing. That is not remorse. That is regret. She has not accepted full responsibility for her choices yet as she first thinks of how it impacts her. Not you. Not your children. Not OM's W. Selfishness is a pretty common trait for WS. She did it. She knew it was wrong (why hide it then?). She had numerous things she used to justify and explain her choice. The cognitive dissonance would be too much for her to handle otherwise. She has been lying to herself as much as she has been lying to you. She has to see those things as lies and start being authentic with herself first before she can authentic with you.

Again IC for you both is highly recommended.

All of our actions have consequences and you should not help her avoid the natural consequences of her actions. Consequences are a natural result of her choices and will likely be examples to help her establish boundaries and motivate her to fix whatever is going on inside her that gave her permission to cheat on you.

FWIW OM being a less than ideal man is pretty common. The refrain here is "they always affair down." It appealed to her because he left her pretend to whoever she wanted to pretend to be. She can't do that with you. You know her too well.

Keep posting man. IC, Lawyer, Doctor (STD now and in six months, also for help managing the extreme emotions). Establish boundaries that help you feel safer, at least temporarily. These are not, "punishments," they are a tool to protect yourself from further hurt.

yep - she agreed to anything to keep this together. Including an IC. First visit is set for next week. I will do the same after mtg w/my general prac on Tuesday. This group is truly amazing!

Joel,

What you are seeing and experiencing is not full disclosure. She responds to your questions, then bails when you get too close, press too much. She telling you just enough to provide an answer to the question. A minimal answer. You teased this out of her by pretending to have addtl info. She provided an account, waited to see your reaction, and saw you likely bought the HJ account. Then the only remaining issue was dithering over the number of encounters.

Is what she told you the truth? Yes, it is within the realm of possibility that she gave a HJ. Is she telling you the full truth? Highly unlikely.

She came to you wanting to work on M issues. You take that to mean that is when the adultery ended.

Create your own timeline with the other betrayed spouse (OBS). You may find out that is when the OBS started confronting her cheater.

I accept your account that your W is an amazing person and mother. Now you have to reconcile yourself to the fact that the amazing woman detonated a nuclear device inside the family for....attention. In your mind you may have a ledger with columns one entitled Amazing, and one Adulterer as a means of trying to understand what you should do. And in your mind you've begun to assign tick marks underneath each column to come to weigh the betrayal against all you knew about her before. Amazing woman and mother...lots of tick marks. And then tick marks in the Adulterer column for the number of times she cheated, number of sex positions, number of sex acts, number of times she lied to you during the adultery and after you confronted.

That informal calculus is a sort of precursor to trying to arrive at a decision about what to do long term. I purposefully avoided calling the columns Pros and Cons because then the ledger has to do with a decision about the M. IMO, the ledger is best used as a stark reminder that you are viewing one person. It isn't one version up on a pedestal, a version that is easily understood, and then another version that really seems like a different person. It is one person with the capacity to do incredible harm to others for the personal gain of...attention. Not such an amazing attribute.

Your WW needs to face consequences for her A. But it sounds like she is starting to be hit with them big time. Only you can judge how much is needed by way of consequences. It is a difficult line to walk. She needs to feel consequences so that she feels not only pain, but also so she would never want to try this again. At the same time as time goes along watch her actions to see if she begins to feel remorse and empathy for your pain and anger. Being defensive and trying to move on too quickly is not a sign of remorse.

She has to realize that this is a marathon and not a sprint if she wants to reconcile. She also has to realize that no matter what your relationship dynamic was in the past, you are now in total control. She needs to do whatever you ask, and also to take your anger when it comes.Your trust in her has been shattered. At the same time, now that your family knows as well as her friends, she will feel totally alone and you may get family resistance if you decide to R. You do not want to break her. The irony and the unfairness of this is that the person who betrayed you needs you to some degree to heal herself.

Please get in to IC for yourself. You are both going to need a lot of patience. Good luck.

Re the question on the "join me in the shower msg" Here's how Dday started. For the holiday wkend we visited a bunch of friends on the east coast. My S and I were staying at the house in the same room w/a full bath. All good. On Sunday late night (3 day visit almost over) the AP's wife suspect this was going on all day at the party as she watched them messaging back and forth. She basically guessed his instagram password and began scolling thru messages...then they the conversation deleted (I think that was my wife). But here is what the AP spouse recalls all from Sunday when we were all together at an outdoor pool.....

AP "I love the way you are looking at me"

AP "come ride this c@ck"

Spouse "lol, Im getting in the shower, come join me?"

AP "someone has to keep your husband busy"

Spouse: Lol

This isn't exact, but from the memory of the AP spouse. My wife didn't deny it. The invite wasn't real as I was staying in the room w/my wife, however, the "someone has to keep your husband busy" was while I was playing darts w/AP and my wife said she was going up to change from bathing suit and get ready for the night.

^^^Ugh!^^^ That is hurty, Joel. I am sorry.

Just know this. Most of us have suffered in a similar manner. It hurts, OMG, it hurts. But...dirty word alert...time does help. You will feel better some day, you will survive. Like all of us here. And, you can thrive, too. With or without your WW.

Sending you thoughts for peace and serenity, Joel.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 1:58 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

Strength brother, it is tough, SI is here for you, you are not alone

I am sorry to say but parking lot sex forces me to look at her as some slut I never knew.

Reality check

What you did not know, but what you do know now, is that she cares more about herself than about you, and that should open your eyes. She is not your friend and she does not have your best interest or that of the family at heart, she is a selfish bitch that has betrayed you and will not hesitate to do so again if it would bring her any (meager) reward.

Action to take

That bitch left you in the cold. Now soldier on on your own with your kids soldier. If she does not care about, and for you, well to hell with her and YOU will. So from now on you should start doing things that are best for YOU. Be your own best friend from now on, the more you focus on YOU the less you focus on her (WW) and him (OM).

In the phase that you are currently in, that means you should seek for social support from your friends, telling people who you know or even random strangers what has happened to you - it is not your fault in any way, and you have nothing to be ashamed of - and they will offer their support and advice, reading all other posts and advice given here on SI to educate and empower yourself, securing your financial assets (e.g., pre-nup), doing the 180 (see healing library), understanding that you can ask 'why' until you go crazy but knowing that you will never have the 'why' because there is no 'why' and you can never verify, considering yourself a single man from now on, and so forth.

In a later phase, you can do things that make YOU HAPPY without her interference, such as buying that car or motorcycle you always wanted, going out and making new friends without her disapproval, eat whatever you like, and maybe even finding a new and better girlfriend or wife! Hey, not being married to her also has its benefits for you!

Seriously, this infidelity stuff is harmful to your mental and physical health, the more you focus on her the more you kill yourself while she is not worth killing yourself and your children need you, so focus on YOU. Be your own best friend.

Whatever happens, know that everything has changed now and things will never be the same, stay calm as much as possible (very important), avoid her as much as possible since she does not have your best interest at heart and will only bring you pain and trouble, be your own best friend, and stay posting here.

It sucks, but you have to just suck it up - and smile - and soldier on on your own now. YOU CAN DO IT!, be your own best friend!

I wish you well, strength brother, SI is here for you!

The OMW is taking an action right out of the SI.com guidebook: She’s exposing.

It’s the single most effective tool to kill infidelity. It makes the affair real and destroys – amongst other things – the romance of the affair and the secrecy. If your wife comes driving out of a side-road and OM car is seen in the same neighborhood you will hear about it.

The OMW did you a great, immense favor.

Don’t worry about what others are saying. They can chastise, poke fun at, shun, wag their fingers at or whatever they want to do towards your wife for all you care. It will last until the next Hollywood star drives drunk or next Congressman is caught with a page-boy.

At some point – when you have reached some resolve in what you want to do – you can step in and help mend fences if that’s needed.

If you want to aid your wife or ensure she has some support then consider contacting a friend you trust (one you are certain had no knowledge of the affair and kept it secret from you) and simply ask them to be there for your wife. You could also contact those that are closest to you and say something along the lines of “As you have heard then my wife was having an affair with [name of OM]. I am not sure how I will deal with this and how it will impact my marriage. I would appreciate your support to both me and my wife in guiding us and supporting at this tough time”.

Once again: I stress the necessity of getting the truth from her.

Hi,

I have been exactly where you are. My WH had an affair with my best friend right under my nose(literally).

The only difference is I didn’t know until 8years after the facts.

It sucks and I’m sorry you are here.

We haven’t told the kids. We are NC with the AP family which means I don’t see my godchildren and my kids don’t have a godmother any more. They occasionally miss them and ask when they can see them but kids adapt well.

You can tell truths without telling the full truth.

I took some time out. I hid the pain and the ‘discussions’ until the kids were out of the way.

I am so much stronger than I realised and you are too.

One of the questions I had for my WW was who was the aggressor in this relationship? It's not like she was seduced. She put herself directly into the situation.

"the A spouse messaged our whole world on what happened and the details. My wife has lost my sibs and most of her friends."

Sweet! The OBS did you a favor. You should thank her. Actions have consequences. The consequences in this case are good.

"...so we can make these big decisions together."

Seriously? You want her input in your life? She's demonstrated that she cared for your marriage and your health so little that she screwed another man and was texting him right next to you; and you're still wanting her input? You are going to IC I hope.

"She is now asking if we can...relocate...and start all over as a family. My response was NFW. She needs to address her issues."

She wants to run away and pretend this never happened. Good for you saying NFW. She caused this sh*t storm and she needs to stay for the duration.

You're doing great bro. Just realize that you still haven't gotten the truth though. She was meeting up to have sex; I think you know this. It's just a matter of getting her to come totally clean. There will never be true remorse and there will always be a divide between you two until she owns up to all of it. It's going to take her failing the polygraph for you to get the truth. You'll may have to poly her twice in order to be sure.