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After she claimed to come clean (including details on the sex positions & seemed to answer every question I could think of) I felt I have the full story. The part that I can't get over is that fact rolled out over 2 days. First fact was sexting - so she admitted it. Next fact was actually texting him after the sexting was discovered, she denied that until I showed her the text she sent. Then the sex, she denied that one last, after I gave her an hour to come clean and a last chance to be honest w/me...she denied it. Then he admitted it to his wife and gave details about locations etc.....presented with this new fact, she then admitted it.

Thank you Golden R,

I was confused and thought I maybe missed something (which I did) but I didn't see where she admitted to sex just "physical" stuff.

Sorry, you have to be here Joel1111. I'm glad you didn't lose your temper with AP when you found out however, I do feel the need to ask because I'm not seeing that part yet. For some, it comes later and maybe for some it doesn't come at all but I would expect more rage from you. That doesn't mean it isn't there and this is based purely on your posts here and what you choose to share, but are you angry?

[This message edited by MrMagnolia at 3:39 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

Joel1111

I am going to comment about the issue of how to get the truth from a Wayward spouse that is lying or has lied.

My suggestions are different. I do not feel like she should receive a free pass at this point so that she comes clean. It is just not in the wayward mindset to do so. She has been lying a long time. She feels like she is fighting to save herself and her marriage at this point in time. She likely feels a great amount of pressure to maintain the lies. It may cause you more hurt if she continues to do so. Until she has made the commitment to rebuild the marriage and you see some semblance of honesty and remorse, I would hold off on the free pass.

Therefore, I am going to suggest that you have her read a short book.

"How to Help your Spouse Heal from your Affair" by Linda MacDonald

You can get it online at a bookstore of your choosing. It costs under $10 and will take less than an hour for her to read. You should read it as well. Then both of you discuss the contents of the book.

In this book the steps to rebuild a marriage are detailed. Also, the requirement for the truth is clearly delineated.

After reading the book, have her prepare a timeline with as much detail as you desire. If you feel like you have the truth then so be it. If you feel you are experiencing trickle truth require the polygraph. Now you have something to polygraph against.

You already know that she cheated. Presently, it is the details that you wish to know. Please be forewarned that once you know something it cannot be easily forgotten. Also, your wife needs to know at some point that the lying will force you the Betrayed Spouse to fill in whatever details your imagination dreams up.

Lastly, as you grieve the marriage that has been lost and progress through reconciliation if that is your choice, your feelings may change. Much of the success or failure of reconciliation rest with the actions of the Wayward spouse. This is just the reality of the situation your wife has placed you in. My suggestion is to couch the free pass in a manner so that your wife knows she has much work to do in order to save the marriage. The pass is simply to allow reconciliation to continue.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 3:45 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

Tell her you plan on talking to these other man's wife again to verify what she writes down.

I'm not sure I'd give her that warning, maybe after she's answered them.

I would prepare a list for her, say 50 questions.

Be sure and ask if you need to have the DNA of your kids tested to see if you are the father. (That can't help but drive home the seriousness of the deal.)

If you were to have an affair, would she forgive you? ( a trick question, condemn herself or give you a hall pass)

On a scale from 1 to 10, how does she rate her handjobs, blowjobs, sex. ( Ridiculous yes, but you may learn something, you never know.)

I've still got a list somewhere....

Last question, would you take a polygraph.

[This message edited by twisted at 3:43 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

If the “free pass” is a reference to my idea of an amnesty then let’s clear that up right now.

There is no “free pass”. It’s simply a commitment to not decide R or D for a period after you get the truth. I think I suggested 30 days. There isn’t any way to tie that period down. Jeff could walk out mid-way through reading the confession. But a WS won’t have any incentive to fess up if the options are don’t tell the truth and it’s over or tell the truth and it’s over.

The book suggestion is a great one.

Simply tell her that you will work at verifying her story. No need to tell her how.

Finally Jeff – could you clarify the sex issue? Was it just a HJ or was there more that she has confessed to?

I do not feel like she should receive a free pass at this point so that she comes clean.

I haven't seen anyone advocate a "free pass". What I've seen is to tell her that there is a chance here to get the full story out and then you can decide what to do. There is no guarantee what he will do with that information but there is an iron-clad guarantee that anything that trickles out after this offer will mean divorce. That is what I think you offer. That isn't a "free pass" at all.

Bigger

My wife has been sexting for 2 months w/my best friend (who is married) and they arranged to meet twice in a parking lot to have sex in the last month.

This is the second sentence of the original post.

She has agreed over the next day to write down everything that happened. Dates, times, what happened.....etc. Is there a template for this? Do I just give her a list of the questions that I want answered or let her start freeform then ask?

I think Bigger is 100% right with the freeform approach. So far, your wife has only admitted what you could could prove, and then admitted more when she thought you knew more. So if that is how she rolls, you will actually be limiting things by asking a ton of very specific questions, because your wife will only answer what she has been asked, and those answers are likely to be carefully redacted and minimised.

If, on the other hand, you play it smart and tell her that she should write down absolutely everything, bearing in mind that you have been investigating this independently, and liaising with the OM's betrayed wife, who has told you all the stuff he told her, then your wife will have no idea how to limit what she says, will she? And you can also tell her that you are going to continue talking to the OM's wife, comparing notes, and that any omissions are bound to come to light one way or the other.

And, as Bigger and others have said, you are within your rights to ask as many more questions as you want, as and when you want.

In my view, the way you frame this for your wife should be, "This is your chance to prove you can tell the truth about all of it, or you can use it as an opportunity to prove that you are a liar who is still trying to hide stuff. It is entirely up to you how you use this opportunity. It is entirely up to me how to react if you do use it to lie or leave stuff out. So think very hard about the option that you choose".

Hell, tell her you have a friend who does surveillance work for the government, and you are going to ask him to do a forensic investigation of her phone and recover all the stuff that has been deleted. Unless she is Bill Gates, she will not know what can and cannot be found, particularly by a Fed or a 'man in black'. She took advantage of your ignorance of the affair, you can take advantage of her ignorance of how much you know, and what can be recovered from her devices. Fair's fair, right?

Edited to add: If you want to ratchet up the pressure, tell her you will be checking into what cc TV footage of the car park is available. Most places now have cameras as a security measure.

[This message edited by M1965 at 3:59 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

.the A spouse messaged our whole world on what happened and the details. My wife has lost my sibs and most of her friends...most are telling her they are so disgusted and disappointed but here to talk if she needs it. I can see the trauma shock in her eyes and lack of clarity in thinking.

Joel, this is a natural consequence of cheating. She and the OM controlled everything through deceit. Truth to cheaters is like water to the Wicked Witch of the West or garlic to a vampire.

She is now asking if we can (a) take that role or (b) relocated anywhere else in the US and start all over as a family. My response was NFW (with a silent B at the end cause I'm still in angry stage :-). I know, too soon for humor. I'm not running from her problems that way. She needs to address her issues.

This is a very positive statement from you. Early decisiveness sets an environment in place where you have control over your future decisions. And decisiveness at any stage is a good indicator of a person finding self respect. She is looking for a quick fix which is a wayward trait. It smacks of her wanting to rug sweep. And the shock/trauma of exposure and desire to get away from people that know her secret is selfish wayward thinking because it is all about her.

She can rehabilitate and restore herself. But not with shortcuts. Right now she exhibits the behavior, thinking and actions of a cheater. Nothing special or unique about her.

Hey Joel1111, I just wanted to chime in and let you know you are not alone in this shitstorm. Very sorry you find yourself here. I too had the "joy" of trickle truth for about 10 months. It is truly awful.

My WW minimized, told me only as much as she could get away with but I'm a super analytical person and dug for months with recovery software, putting what I thought was the truth together. Guess what, after 10 months, I was pretty much right.

In terms of what everyone else is saying about he leaving to give you time to come to grips with all this, I totally agree and wish I had done this. She needs to experience real consequences for her actions.

My WW and I had sex 2 days after dday, mistake. I gave her a new ring 4 days after dday, sort of a new beginning. Thinking back, what the F was I doing?!? Well, I was totally F'ed up and should have had space between us so I could process everything.

On dday, my WW told me of a ONS before we were married, as I call it "2 for 1 that night", along with a couple of EA's over the years. It really was too much to handle, especially since we were high school sweethearts, and both our first sexual partners. Made me think my entire relationship and marriage was a joke.

At this point, she is starting to see the damage she has caused and will be in the self preservation mode. The first timeline I got was a joke. My mistake at the time was I never followed up, or at least, waited too long to follow up and get the timeline I wanted/needed.

Ask as many questions as you want of all of us, I wish I had found SI soon after dday, I would have been so better prepared and wouldn't have made so many mistakes.

Sorry about this bro, but it does get better. I'm nearing 3 years from dday and we are in R and doing better, but still have bad days.

Can someone please explain how a handjob over the clothes works?

This is a grown man right, not a 14 year old getting felt up. Not trying to be rude towards your wife. But her hand can’t be that hot.

It makes me laugh. A hand job over the clothes. Lie. It’s a lie.

Right now you are going crazy with emotions. It’s hard to picture your life going into divorce. Especially if you were happy in the marriage.

A friend of mine had this exact type of affair. She never aired her resentments. Her husband always did exactly what he wanted. My friend is gorgeous. She starts aging. Goes through menopause and had a 6 week affair with one of the world’s biggest losers. The sex was so hot. It was on the floor at her house and in the bed of the OM. She never was leaving her rich husband. She loved the ego boost. Loved it.

She immediately ended the affair. Husband hung around for another 2 years becoming beginning his year long affair with a Co worker.

Anyway, my advice is to think long an hard about R. Can you ever get through this? You won’t get over it. You won’t not think about it.

Your marriage can still be a good marriage.

Yes moving can be a very good thing. We moved and it has been very helpful.

Something I read ion SI—-sex is friction and it feels good.

Don’t let yourself go down this path...was the sex better?. I don’t believe for a minute two people meet while married and have the best sex of their lives. I can believe it was hot and fun because it’s dirty and forbidden.

Here’s the thing I don’t get as a woman. How can a woman face her husband with another man’s semen inside of her body?

Your wife had zero issue with breaking up your marriage and another woman’s marriage. She has zero loyalty. Her only loyalty is herself. Just herself. This wasn’t an exit affair. This was a I feel hot like this affair.

Beenthereinco

A hand-job is sex. There seems to be some confusion and it would help if Jeff would clarify.

Please forgive my use of the term free pass. It is a delicate process to reassure the Wayward spouse to tell the truth. The Wayward spouse requires some type of reassurance from the Betrayed spouse that what they disclose if they are truthful will help them in their cause to reconcile. Otherwise, the Wayward spouse will simply maintain the lies forcing the Betrayed spouse to continue to dig. The quicker that the discovery phase of healing is completed the more advantageous to reconciliation it is in my opinion. The truth is much easier to deal with than lies or what ifs. I feel it is very damaging for the betrayed spouse to wonder if they have the truth over a prolonged period of time. Their imagination kicks in and they may imagine events much worse than actually occurred.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 4:05 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

My wife is 40 and truly an amazing mother

STOP...right there.

No she is not an "amazing mother". She is not even a good mother. A good mother does not jeopardize her children's stability by destroying the marriage. A good mother does not betray and humiliate her children's father. A good mother conducts herself with honor and integrity. A good mother doesn't act the bimbo and screw her husband's best friend in a car.

Take your WW off that pedestal. Kick it out from under her. She doesn't deserve your veneration.

...and DO NOT cry in front of her. Go off and cry alone somewhere. It will only make you look weak to her and your kids. You have to be the strong one. It will be the hardest thing you ever do but you have to do it.

Pls understand - she truly is an amazing person, who loved me so much at one point and I loved her with everything I had

Well she proved to you that was a big act didn't she?

She is what she did. Until she proves to you and everyone else otherwise.

Joel,

Re:Timeline. I'd suggest that the only guidance you give her is that you want Who, What, Where and When. Leave "Why" out for now. Let her write what she choses to write about those 4 W's. The level of detail and cohesiveness of her chronology will be immediately apparent. You'll be able to see where you need her to do another iteration with more detail, and gauge the extent of her wanting to minimize.

My wife is devastated, she talks about losing everything..friends, family, me..etc. I'm not a push over by any means, but do feel like this was massive lapse of judgement over 60 days and she is paying an enormous price right now. I see the trauma shock in her.

But WHO is she devastated for Joel? Not you. She's only worried about herself. She doesn't care a whit about your pain.

Very odd to admit sex first, and then later to minimize HJs.

My friend’s father cheated with his wife’s best friend. They reconciled so it is possible. It is the plotting and poking fun at you that bother me the most. It might take you some time to decide if you are able to forgive her. You might want to suggest that if she lies or minimises again then you will require a polygraph.

[This message edited by Smillie at 4:16 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

She agreed to the STD test right away. That's scheduled for tmrw.

Yeah...after you asked her to do it. It wasn't her idea. It should have been.

I'm a little torn here...the A spouse messaged our whole world on what happened and the details. My wife has lost my sibs and most of her friends...most are telling her they are so disgusted and disappointed but here to talk if she needs it. I can see the trauma shock in her eyes and lack of clarity in thinking..

Yeah....it's called consequences. You need to stand back and allow her to experience them. DO NOT try to intervene or protect her. Tell her that is not your job anymore. She fired you as her husband when she took up with your buddy.

...but I need her healthy just like me so we can make these big decisions together. I'm not sure how to help her get healthy other than getting her a therapist and 'watch me do it dammit'!

No...SHE gets herself a therapist. SHE does the leg work, not you. Her mental and emotional health is not your concern. You have to spend your time and energy healing yourself.

Here's one more...I relocate a lot for work. This is our 6th home thru marriage. 4 months ago I was offered (but declined) an expat to Europe. She is now asking if we can (a) take that role or (b) relocated anywhere else in the US and start all over as a family. My response was NFW (with a silent B at the end cause I'm still in angry stage :-). I know, too soon for humor. I'm not running from her problems that way. She needs to address her issues.

Good! Good job! She needs to understand that moving to a new location is not going to solve her problems. All she will do is take her problems with her. The problem IS her, not her location, associates or whatever.

Joel you must refuse to be responsible for her and her actions and decisions. She must face the fallout on her own, or she won't learn a damn thing.

You have to make it abundantly clear to her that you are ready to walk away forever, and that it is going to take a massive effort on her part to keep you from doing so. Until she feels this, nothing you do will have any effect on her. You have to mean what you say and say what you mean and follow through with your threats if it comes to it.