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Two things stand out to me with narcissists that don't occur with the non-personality disordered:

1. Their overreactions to what happens come out of nowhere. A rage pours out of them over some tiny, random occurence. I can remember a time when I ate a french fry as my exBF narc and I were finding plates and napkins to eat our take out food, and he suddenly started screaming at me and calling me names. He told me that I was rude and impatient for "eating my whole meal without him." Over a single french fry. Narcissists are very controlling and judgmental, and they lose their minds when something isn't done their way. Unpredictable and terrifying way to live.

2. And when they do overreact about something, they will insult you in every possible way they can think of, particularly using projection of their own faults. Selfish is a favorite insult, but foolish, idiotic, immature, dysfunctional, rude, and stupid are routine insults. Then comes the full thoughts like, "Everybody hates you and says things behind your back," or "People ask me why I am with you because they know I can do better." The narcissist never tires of calling you names or insulting you, and they will use every vulnerability you've ever shared.

Regular people don't do this. Their emotions are not unpredictable landmines underneath every conversation, and they don't hurl toxic, cruel verbal (may turn physical) attacks because you eat a french fry.

Narcissists are extremely emotionally dangerous for these reasons, even if before they cheat. Nobody should tolerate this kind of treatment. It robs you of your dignity.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 2:41 AM, May 16th (Thursday)]

Always a fascinating topic. My wh has asshole tendencies more than Narc, But was raised by a Narc, so that makes him fun. My mil is the rooster who believes the sun comes up every day when she crows. But she’s really the small man behind the curtain.

When image is everything, all people become accessories to make you shine brighter. Wh is his mom’s favourite accessory. If he shines for her, he is showered with love and flattery. So love is conditional and transactional. Also, there are no consequences ever to bad behaviour. Any attention is good attention. Me and the kids were trotted out for photos so mil could look like a matriarch of a beautiful family, then we were cast aside again. It was so phony, I always got a tight chest and nausea.

When life got hard, businesses weren’t performing great, he didn’t want advice or to look hard at causes and solutions. Because that made him feel icky because feelings were weak. What was more fun was finding an extra source of flattery. Double down. Neither the source nor the validity of the message was important, as long as it was on tap/speed dial/text-accessible 24/7. That way the real life work could be avoided, while telling everyone he was “working” all the time, a self sacrificing hero with a bitch wife. He now had 2 women showing him attention thru transactions. Narc lottery win.

His behaviour was so bizarre - he had a maniacal clown smile on his face but his eyes were dead. He went on incessantly about how happy he was. His mom was over the moon because he acting like her.he was a hero to cow and mom, and an impotent victim of his marriage. As it became clear our marriage was in ruins, mil told him over and over that I was us8ng him. She whispered in my ear that she had him back. (When I repeated this to wh, he told me I was crazy and just didn’t want mil to be happy - I got chills). She loved the cow because she was easy to control (family business employee). It felt like a very weird and dark puppet show. She wanted me knocked off the pedestal so she could have the spot - her son is her Life Partner (covert incest, it’s on the Narc menu). Right before the affair, she told me, out of the blue, that I could only divorce him if he had an affair. It was so strange that I burst into tears. Man did my body try to warn me. So I wonder if she was complicit.

When I kicked him out, mr perfect popular didn’t go to any friends close by - we lived in a city of millions - he drove 3 hrs to mom because no consequences. Via text He told her he had an affair and I had kicked him out. Her response was “great I just put a new duvet in your room”. I Never heard from her again. She never offered to help me or the kids. She had her son/husband back - he was running back to her. So gross.

I cut his family out, it’s been almost 5 years. She of course is the victim. I’ve been told that my absence causes drama. My response was “bringing a girlfriend to a family funeral so you can show her what a great family man you are causes drama and is abusive.” And then I was admonished for airing dirty laundry and being bitter. Lol. Truth is poison to them. There are so many rifts between siblings, stealing, ghosting, but I’m thru marriage so I’m all evil. It’s a shit show - and mil is a therapist to boot. Best thing I did was run. Wh ran after me when he no longer could use me as the shield from all the craziness. As the punching bag, I’d protected him for 25 yrs. My therapist thinks the affair was him lashing out at his mom. And the mow was a weird mini me version of her. It’s all so fucked up and hard.

And what a hero!! Before I realized I was married to a very special, unique, covert narc liar and sexually confused cheater, I thought he was the perfect guy. And so did everyone else. He didn’t just do anything. He DID it.

Oh my gosh ^^^^^^ YES to the above.

I was so confused for so long... I was literally EXHAUSTED at home, decisions about bills and calling someone to fix something, him getting mad or complaining it was not done right and he "would" have done it himself and saved us some money (he always acted like he could totally fix anything in the house, start a project and then just leave it broken or half way done) but when we were anywhere with family or friends? He JUMPED at the chance to show how wonderful he was.... and I am quite sure to them, having someone help with setting up stuff or carrying in things from a car or whatever seemed fabulous. However I would for many years be left to feel like something was terribly wrong with me because he would "act" like a hero at home for a brief moment but drop it or never get to it or literally break or scratch or do something that would make the project even more work.

I now understand that this is the covert narc, but the emotional trauma this put me under for years was just horrible. It is silent anger that simmers under the surface and just "peeks" out only when their spouse is around or is the target of it. They NEVER want others to see them as bad or unreliable people.

[This message edited by realitybites at 6:07 AM, May 16th (Thursday)]

My IC suggested that I read an old but good (by her standards) book called Born to Win. In one of the chapters it makes reference to Teasing as being a form of discounting. "A discount is either the lack of attention or negative attention that hurts emotionally or physically" "Discounts always carry an ulterior put-down" Do any of you notice your Narc partners doing this? There is one of my family members that my WH teases all the time, in fact I can't remember an event or occurence of him ever being outright kind, loving etc to this individual. Not that he is nasty but a covert way of him interacting. It's like he's jealous that this person gets attention from everyone and it's not directed at him and he is inwardly sulking and teases to deal with it. I don't like it. Any suggestions?????

I think “narc partner” might be an oxymoron.

You can tell him you don’t like it, but it probably won’t matter. Because he’s a narc. And your liking or disliking of something has literally zero bearing on what he does. I endured over a decade of the “teasing” and anytime I expressed anything resembling disliking it, I was told I was being a humorless bitch.

I repeat my previous suggestion that if you find yourself in a relationship with a narc, RUN.

Adaira, yes they don't like being called on the carpet for anything. I'm doing some observations on a few things. It could very well turn out that I may have to do just that. He does take suggestions from his MC so this may be something that she can take up with him as well. That's why I say he has a few Narc tendencies, possibly not a full blown Narcissist.

I ignore my WS when I can tell he's trying to take me down the rabbit hole. Grey rock always works like a charm. They don't eve know what hit them. My WS looks confused now

Don’t forget that the Narcs had good intentions, which they didn’t tell us about, because WE “couldn’t understand”

How do you understand what you don’t know about?

Not sure if allowed here but I have got A LOT of info from Dr Les Carter and Richard Grannon, really huge eye openers

If you are married or in a relationship with a narc, I believe there is a 100% chance they will cheat. I believe that now more than ever.

They have no empathy. They don’t care of they hurt you. They need constant admiration and attention. They are cunning and manipulative. They feel entitled and will justify every single shitty thing they do and IT WILL ALWAYS BE YOUR FAULT.

OIN — I totally agree with the rage fits / outbursts of anger. I always felt like my WH was a ticking time bomb 24/7. I never knew what was going to set him off.

He set your lawn on fire? Twice?

MBB, yes unfortunately. And that was only during this last year. He has started more fires that magically got away from him than I can even count. Each and every time, he claimed that it was an accident. But after so many times, his fire accidents followed a definite pattern of punishment whenever he didn't get what he wanted or it happened during holidays when he wasn't the complete and total center of everyone's attention.

While he was setting and spreading the fires, he was rehearsing the story that he was going to tell others when they came to put out the fire or when they stopped by to ask him what was had happened. He was playing the part of the hard working, unappreciated victim whose evil wife wouldn't let him have his way. The worst part was the smirk on his face where he had spent years taunting me that if I tried to tell anyone that he did it on purpose, he would use that to make himself look even more victimized. It sucked having him in my life and I am so glad that our divorce is finalized.

F1

I now think that I am dealing with what they call a Covert Narcissist. A different level of the treatment towards the victim for sure. My WH doesn't have outbursts of rage, mostly sulking and deflecting and playing the victim, but has just about every other trait there is for that. Total lack of empathy being the one that truly opened my eyes this last weekend. As well on one of the reviews of the videos I have been watching there is a comment there about a woman's husband always teasing or trying to covertly get the waitresses attention when they are out at a restaurant. Mine does this as well, he does childish things to get there attention and really seems to get a kick out of their reactions.

I'm now starting to believe that as we go to the same few places that the waitresses look at him like he's an idiot but have to humour us as we are patrons, and my WH tips very well. I'm trying to figure out how I can handle this.

This site has been a godsend to me. I went on line to see if there is a support group forum like this for partners of Narcissists. I couldn't find one. Has anyone here any info on that? To be honest this has been a huge wake up call for me. I've been with my WH for 7 years and am just now beginning to put the puzzle pieces together about this. Cheating is VERY high on a Narcissists list of behaviors...... it's the constant need for adoration and ego supply. There are many other traits and as I investigate the information on line I am now seeing very clearly that the feelings I have had right from the get go ( Love Bombing from the second date ) and my take on his behaviors have been accurate. I'm not crazy after all...one of the big ones is that my WH really doesn't like me showing attention to my family and grandchildren, he shows a very immature sulking behavior and it's not just every now and then, but on every occasion. Says he will make a counselling appointment to address "our" problems with my family but passively aggressively ( another trait of a narcissist) never makes it and goes to see his IC...

Gumdropped, everything you say--from cheating to being jealous of family to passive aggressive snarkiness--is common with narcissists. Some narcissists marry, but they have strained relationships if they do. Most end up divorced or never marry because things blow up before a wedding can happen. Narcissism is a spectrum, and as much as there are many similar attributes, they are still different people and individuals.

I have found that recognizing the behaviors for exactly what they are--a need to fill a deep, black hole of nothingness in their soul--helps me to not take things personally. That keeps me very detached from their tantrums and endless complaints. You can live this way, but he will most likely act out for attention. Your ability to "handle" him will leave even more "poor me" in his soul, so he'll seek kibbles. Would you be able to handle another A?

There are no support groups that I've ever seen, but there is a site for all different personality disordered people to post about their struggles. Do a search for psych forums. I found a lot of great information there, although the site caters to those suffering from disorders, not the family and friends who are impacted.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 12:29 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)]

Owningitnow I would not tolerate another EA or any other behavior on my WH part to fill a narcissistic need in that regard. That would be a deal breaker. I am still in the shock stage of realizing what I have been dealing with all along. I don't even know if I am going to be able to continue on in the relationship as it stands now. I have read many articles and listened to many videos by Dr Les Carter and Richard Grannan that are awesome at describing and outlining this personality disorder. The last couple of weeks I have left my WH wondering just what the hell is happening because I have tried the gray rock method a few times, ignored his attempts at getting attention and voicing my own opinions without either agreeing with or challenging his. To say that he is off balance is an understatement. I think he wonders where his loving, adoring, doting partner has gone. Listening to our guts (intuition) when they are telling us something also applies here big time. I always knew that something was "off" he was the "perfect partner" from the get go, to the point that it was so over the top I knew that it was too good to be true. Unless they get help there is very little that can change their behavior, and just acknowledging to themselves that there is anything wrong with them is a losing battle.

A comment I read today while watching a video on Narcissistic behaviors

""They're not looking for relationships, they're looking for assets..."

Doesn't that ring true!

You can live this way, but he will most likely act out for attention. Your ability to "handle" him will leave even more "poor me" in his soul, so he'll seek kibbles.

This is where I'm currently at and am realizing this just might be the end for me... we'll see. My WS has managed to make himself the poor victim again because I am not being a wife or helping and supporting him through all his hardships right now. His 'poor me' is working on our kids too as my daughter just told me yesterday she wished we'd just get divorced as she is tired of both parents voicing their unhappiness about the other parent. Guess WS has been talking badly about me to them... plus he does EVERYTHING for them lately so they think the sun shines out his ass right now.

Gladly. First, always the victim. No actual accountability. Hollow words to end an argument. Crying to elicit sympathy. "It's all my fault," she'd dramatically exclaim in tears without addressing the point of the discussion or acknowleding where I met her in the middle. Also lots of emphatic hyperbole. "You always" was a favorite of hers.

Some of this is textbook narc, some is just personality traits. Just spitballing a few things off the top of my head to get the narc horror story ball rolling.

Hence- therein lies the dissemination of attributable "characteristics". Not always easy and I studied Clinical Psyche in grad school. "Sometimes" it may be a classic case, however there are few classic cases.As you intimated, there seems to be "multiple" issues. And whether I or anyone else "cares" to figure out what ideally would be: "this is who I am"- the just you should get.And this is rocket science? Am I a dinosaur?

My goodness.you present yourself (hopefully not a BS artist)and then reaction varies (duh) and then (as I do) look for humility. And then...any thoughts are stricken if not. Off subject, but "if" one does not have sense of humility (sometimes known as shyness), then you are not even a prospect, To each his/her own:)

Maybe it's because I'm running on fumes en route to home or that I didn't read other recent posts, but I fail to understand the treatise on my whole earlier post. Am *I* being called out? I can't make heads or tails of it if I'm being honest.

I fell last week, laughed because I was embarrassed, my friend helped me up while me WH just sat there no expression. I made the comment "thanks for jumping up to help me" he said "well you were laughing and "friend" helped you up. I left it at that. About 90 minutes later in the car I said "again, thanks for helping me up", his reply - deadpan - "you are ok"