SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

what you have to determine at this stage is that it was only a one time event and was not a habit.

It is interesting that alcohol lead to cheating as well as to confession

Hi Reen,

I think it is always best to occupy the middle ground before you have a clear picture of a situation.

It would be counter-productive for you to rug-sweep this when it clearly bothers you, and has the potential to bother you for years if you do not get more clarity.

It would be counter-productive for you to take what little you know about that incident and exaggerate it into a marriage-busting campaign of malign deceit that has lasted two decades.

It would be counter-productive for you to not tell your wife that this new revelation bothers you, and that you need more information about it to be able to process it.

If something troubles you, you don't call Ghostbusters, you talk to your spouse. It is when people stop talking their troubles over with their spouse that deeper problems begin.

So when you say this...

I hope she is forthcoming and not annoyed because it was so long ago.

...I have to agree with you, because a reaction like that is not going to help you get closure on this, and does not give proper weight and respect to your feelings.

I think it would be a very good idea to make a list of questions and issues that you want to discuss. Hopefully, if you can cover all the stuff that is bothering you, you may only need a single discussion about it. However, it is perfectly legitimate if you need more than that.

It is intriguing that your wife suddenly brought this up after twenty years, and I would want to ask why. She lied about it at the time, hid it for twenty years, and then suddenly, one insignificant "nothing happened" night from all that time ago was at the forefront of her mind, and something she brought up after a few beers.

You wonder if your wife may be annoyed that you are concerned about such an ancient event, and yet she herself thought it was important enough to bring up after twenty years' silence about it. So how can she blame you for treating it as important, when she thought it was important enough to talk about when she could have talked about a million other things?

And I think that may be what makes you uneasy about this, more than any suspicions about deeper, darker stuff.

Do you think that timing may have some bearing on it? The event happened twenty years ago, but you have been married for nineteen, which means you are heading for your twentieth wedding anniversary. Is it possible that your wife is trying to come clean before that happens, so that she can go into it with no skeletons rattling in a closet?

That may seem fanciful, but why else mention it now? People do assess their lives when these milestone anniversaries approach, just as they do with significant birthdays. It will be interesting to ask her why she broke her silence on the subject after all this time.

The next obvious questions would be:

- Who was he?

- How did you meet him?

- How long were you seeing him for?

- Where did you go on that evening, and what did you do? (I am not sure why you are so adamant that she did not get to the concert; is it only because of her vague answers in that phone call, or do you have some other proof of that?)

- How did you end it with him?

- Have you had any contact with him since then?

- Why did you do it?

I also think that the discussion should be about more than just questions. You have written a lot here about how you viewed the commitment level of your relationship back then, and how this revelation has rocked that impression on its foundations.

Tell her that.

Tell her about the level of uncertainty that event has put into your mind, and why it bothers you. And frame it by telling her that you need her help to feel better about it. If you put it like that, it makes it harder for her to respond incredulously or call you paranoid.

And on the off-chance that she still does, you can always say, "You thought it was significant enough to bring up after twenty years, so I think it is significant enough to want the full story".

To start speculating further about what may or may not have happened is pointless. Having the discussion is the best next step to take, and if you work yourself up into too much of a lather beforehand, it will skew the discussion, and you may end up trying to make the answers fit a conclusion that you reached before you even ask the first question.

Think about what you want to know, think about what you want to tell her, and work on it together.

It isn't a police interrogation, it is a married couple discussing something that troubles one of them. That is healthy. If the marriage really is as good as you say it is, you should work pretty well as a team after twenty years.

I hope you get the clarity and resolution you need on this, Reen.

[This message edited by M1965 at 2:38 PM, August 14th (Wednesday)]

M1965 nailed it. Take his advice.

Find out the truth. Determine if there was a sexual component to the relationship and if they saw each other on other occasions. Get his name and see if he is a Facebook friend and in her contacts (phone, email, etc) or if they had any communication in the last 20 years.

I want to thank everybody for your warm, sincere advice. I never knew such a site l existed. After reading through so many different accounts, I feel like my situation is not nearly as severe as some of yours.

You know we were only 18 at the time. We were just kids. Even though we were in a committed relationship and we were married shortly there after, I wonder about putting too much into this. It was only one night and they may not have done anything serious. I will still talk to her this weekend and find out all the information I can and just leave it there. Our relationship has been wonderful for the last 20 years. I really have nothing to complain about. Thank you again.

Update.

It was a perfect night on the front porch to ask my wife questions about her evening out with this guy 20 years ago. She said she told me about it because it didn’t mean anything. Well, she also said she didn’t remember any details of that night because it didn’t mean anything and nothing much must have happened. So, I find it hard to believe she doesn't recall anything!

We had a nice chat, but all I got was acknowledgment. No details or sincere apology except to say she felt bad that it bothers me so much. I asked her to let me know what ever might cross her mind.

Perhaps it didn't mean anything to her but it does for you. Furthermore, it meant something to her at the time because she lied before she went out with him and after. Direct lies not just lies of omission.

I'm 68 years old. I had a steady girlfriend through high school. Lots of dates. I don't remember all of them but I remember certain things even this many years later. I remember more about the dates where it was only once or twice with that girl. I remember quite a bit of the dates with my WW from over 40 years ago.

Memory is a funny thing. Things that are important stick with you. Things that aren't, don't. Things that are important tend to be "replayed" in our minds or by sharing the story. That mechanism drives our later recall. Without it, recall is sparse or non-existant for most people. Tbere are outliers that have greater recall but most people don't.

What you ate for breakfast last Friday morning is most likely a distant memory... unless something important happened at that time or you eat the same thing every day. Extrapolate that to 20 years ago and you get very little recall unless the event was meaningful and significant.

Most of my dates from high school are, at best, a blur to me. I remember the girls but not what we really did. I do remember small snippets with some of them but most details are not there.

And the same event experienced by two different people will be remembered differently. This is the case very often. Because we process experiences differently. So we can't project our memory onto someone else and expect them to have the same details ready for recall.

Could she be hiding something? Yes, it's possible. But it is more likely she doesn't remember details because it wasn't meaningful to her. You have no other data supporting her seeing this guy again, pining for him, communicating with him etc. She went out with him as a friend or on a date one time. It meant very little. Unless you find more data, which is unlikely, be careful not to perseverate on this and make it more than it is. I don't think you are doing that yet but the fact that you are here means you may be tempted to.

[This message edited by Trdd at 7:47 AM, August 15th (Thursday)]

She said she told me about it because it didn’t mean anything. Well, she also said she didn’t remember any details of that night because it didn’t mean anything and nothing much must have happened. So, I find it hard to believe she doesn't recall anything!

FYI, women who cheat, one of the things they almost always say is "It didn't mean anything", or some version of that ("It was just sex." "I didn't enjoy it." etc.)

Let me see if I understand this. You've been married 20 years. Out of the blue, she casually mentions a specific detail about a night from when both of you were 18, which was about 20 years ago, meaning the two of you are now around 48.

On that night, the two of you were apart from one another by about 800 miles due to circumstances, but considered yourself to be in a committed relationship. You thought she attended a concert with her sisters. You have thought that all along, these whole 20 years. You actually discussed the concert with her the next day and she gave you a few vague answers that sort of diverted the conversation.

If she really had attended the concert with the sisters 20 years ago, it seems like this would not be the sort of thing that would ever come up in conversation again, at all, unless perhaps there was something epic about the concert or the night that made it memorable. Like I saw the Ramones at their peak in a small bar in Ann Arbor in about 1981. That was epic and memorable. I've reflected on that show and mentioned it in conversation many times. But I also saw other rock bands around that same time frame that were lame and/or average and I never reflect on those shows.

So, why did this particular evening even come up, at all? If it really was a routine night, just another night out with random social friends, why does she remember it?

Then, there is the piece that she and this guy never actually made it to the concert. Why not? What were they doing? A concert is somewhat of an investment for a young person. Usually, if you spring some of your minimum wage dollars for a ticket, you go.

I once had tickets to a concert. I was a young man and I was going to take a young woman I was interested in. The evening quickly turned into an epic make-out session. We stopped at a liquor store for some champagne, then went to a park and had sex for hours. Missed the concert. That is the sort of distraction that would lead a young man to miss a concert after paying the money to buy the tickets.

Like other posters, I am of course imposing my own personal experience as an overlay onto this thread. But the fact that you found this forum, and posted here, suggests that your gut is telling you something about that night. Usually, here, we say "believe your gut".

Again, it is odd that she mentioned that night at all. Out of all nights when you were 18, that was the one she reflected on. Why?

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:09 AM, August 15th (Thursday)]

Hi Reen,

Well done for initiating the conversation. I am sorry that it did not bring you the information you were hoping for.

It is a bit of a mind-f**k to bring up an evening from twenty years, and then claim it was both meaningless and utterly unmemorable. It was memorable enough to bring it up twenty years after it happened, so it has to have some kind of significance, unless your wife brings up hundreds of nights she cannot remember anything about.

"Hey, remember that night twenty years ago where nothing happened and I can't remember anything about it?"

And that is the really stupid thing about this. Maybe nothing did happen, but bringing it up all these years later suggests it stuck in her mind for some reason, enough to want to mention it to you.

Reen, in some ways it is small potatoes and water that has long since flowed under the bridge and gone out to sea, but if it is still bothering you, I think you should ask your wife to do a bit better than, "I can't remember".

She brought it up, and you know the basics, which was that she lied about going to a concert with her sister when she effectively went on a date with another guy. That is a pretty good framework to use as a foundation.

Or, if you feel like even if something did happen between her and that guy, you would have forgiven it then, and you aren't going to let it rock the boat so much further down the line, just forgive her within yourself for whatever may or may not have happened, and leave it in the past.

Whatever happened that night, whether it was nothing or something, it did not derail your relationship, she didn't run off with anyone, you got married, and have had a great marriage.

So in a way, whatever happened that night really was meaningless, wasn't it? It had no lasting importance or significance.

And whatever took place cannot be changed now anyway. So if all you ever know about that night is, "I can't remember", it is not like you can (or would want to) rewind and cancel the wedding, or go and have words with some guy who has probably got a family of his own now, and may not recall the night either, and who may not even still be alive.

My take on it is that although it is disconcerting, and the claim to not remember a single thing does have a whiff of BS about it, that event is not a clear and present danger to the marriage.

What is more important now is that the two of you are open and honest and regularly ask how the other is feeling.

Based on this premise if a WS doesn't run off with the AP we should be happy.

My WW didn't run off with her LTA AP. She was never going to. It didn't derail the relationship (as far as she was concerned). It was in the past and can't be changed now. So just get over it.

Betrayal is betrayal. It is very possible that R is the best decision Reen can make for his life. It is up to him to determine that. Something is eating at him now that he has found out 20 years later. Likely it is the lies at the time preceding the date and the lies immediately following the date plus 20 years of lies by omission. I'm guessing at that because I don't know.

IMO you need to be comfortable with the explanations, such as they are, for your own well being, Reen. The breaking point for everyone is different. What one finds intolerable someone else doesn't. Some want details, others don't. There appears that there is basis to rebuild the marriage but that is for you to determine and no one else.

To be honest, I cannot remember much about any of my dates from college or high school. I am now 57 years old. They just were not important enough for me to remember a lot of details. The fact that your wife cannot remember a ton of details does not seem that unreasonable to me. However, I do wonder why it came up. If your wife brought it up, then she remembers something about it. I guess I would say that if I were in your shoes, I would make sure that she understands that it was really bothering me and I felt that I needed any details that she could remember. If her memories are not enough, then I would highly suggest going to a good MC to see if you can work through this together to come to a place that is comfortable for you. I was once told by a sponsor of mine that if I I could not let something go, I need to address it. I have found this to be really good advice.

I agree with Steadychevy: "...you need to be comfortable with the explanations, such as they are, for your own well being, Reen. The breaking point for everyone is different. What one finds intolerable someone else doesn't. Some want details, others don't. There appears that there is basis to rebuild the marriage but that is for you to determine and no one else."

Having been down this road I'd like to suggest what worked for me. After my anger phase (which lasted a lot longer than I would have wanted)

I sat her down and told her point blank that I loved her (truth), that I want to be with her (truth), that I will try to forgive her (truth), but I need the ABSOLUTE truth about everything AND I will need her to take a lie detector test.

She balked at first which I expected as a knee-jerk reaction, but she came around. I gave her until the weekend to tell me it all in a detailed time line and I would have questions, lots of them. I sat her down on a Tuesday and she was ready by Friday.

What my wife did was far more egrigious than a little white lie over a concert (I'm not trying to minimize or disregard your pain).

Give her assurance that if this is all there is forgiveness is easy. If it's more, you will not forget all of the great years and will try to forgive and find a way through...together. But you need to have the truth or it will always bother you.

I also offered to take a test myself and she could ask me anything.

She came clean and it was ugly and painful, but healing at the same time. We did eventually get divorced, but are together as a couple and a family. We're even considering remarriage. I said I never would, but never say never.

Bottom line: Give her assurance, offer her the chance at forgiveness, insist on honesty from this point forward and guarantee her the same from you.

20 years is a long time. She may have been feeling guilt for all this time and perhaps it could have been dealt with long ago.

Good luck to you.

I agree with the others above. It seems odd she would bring it up like she did. It must be on her mind for some reason. And now of course it's on your mind.

What raises the red flags in my opinion is her dismissiveness of the way it is affecting you Reen. Has she always lacked empathy?

Not remember. She was telling her daughter about

the one that got away.

A one that got away is a man/woman that was that

special that they are not going to forget about

them.

With apologies for a minor thread-jack:

Based on this premise if a WS doesn't run off with the AP we should be happy.

My WW didn't run off with her LTA AP. She was never going to. It didn't derail the relationship (as far as she was concerned). It was in the past and can't be changed now. So just get over it.

Steady, the context in which I made those comments was on this one particular scenario, in which the original poster feels that he has had a good twenty-year marriage, and does not want to take drastic action over what appears to have been a single evening, prior to the marriage, when he and his girlfriend were both 18 years old.

That is hugely different to the context of your WW's affair, in which instance I would have had something very different to say. Believe me, I find the phrase, "I was never going to leave you", so beloved of busted waywards, to be absolutely infuriating, and a total insult. Why they think that will make their betrayed partner feel better, when it has the opposite effect, is anybody's guess.

End of thread-jack.

The essence of what has been done is like a confession with nothing in the middle:

1) Spotlight that night, after twenty years (the beginning).

2) Say that what happened during it was 'meaningless' (the after-thought).

What purpose would bringing it up after twenty years and declaring it to have been meaningless serve? There was a reason for that, quite possibly guilt.

And why say it was 'meaningless' if nothing happened? If nothing happened, that would not need to be said. It would not need to be mentioned at all.

How can a judgement of 'meaningless' be applied to something that cannot be remembered? If it can be recalled in enough detail to be judged, then it can be recalled. If it cannot be recalled, it cannot be judged, because there is nothing to judge.

Reen, how you choose to play it is up to you, but if it bothers you, what I would say is something like:

You lied on the morning after you spent the evening with that guy, and we both know that you are not telling me the complete truth about it now.

I hope you will do that, so we can finally put that night to rest and move on from it. At the moment, the missing details are all I can think about.

That may seem a bit harsh, but I worry that if the missing pieces are not provided to you, you are going to be asking the same polite questions in another twenty years' time. And that will be no good for either of you.

[This message edited by M1965 at 6:03 PM, August 15th (Thursday)]

Reen, sorry to digress in your thread.

This is a fascinating case of different perspectives. I see an 18 year old girl on summer break being invited out to a concert by a guy and her accepting. Maybe she thought it was an innocent night. Maybe she wanted to see the band. Maybe she was bored. Maybe she had a crush on him. She covered it up... perhaps worried it would upset her boyfriend. It was a one time date, no other data or facts to support any other contact. She and Reen were in a committed relationship but we dont know if it was ever defined just what that meant. We do know they got married a year later.

Others see it as, and yes I am writing with some hyperbole here, an 18 year old serial cheater who deliberately seduced this guy, slept with him and is probably still seeing him every other week for sex.

I get that people lie. And many here have been lied to, very painfully. But not every person who goes to a concert with someone from the opposite sex is cheating. And not telling something to your bf that you think might hurt him does not mean you were cheating. And a single date doesn't mean sex. It just doesn't, no matter what a WS did to you or me, it doesn't mean the worst happened to everyone.

Reen, you may discover more happened. I doubt it did and, for your sake, I hope I am right. It would be interesting to know what context her statement about the date came up in. But it probably doesnt matter.

We always say to the BS.... look at the WS and their actions after the A, not their words. You have 19 years of marriage and nothing else suspicious, dont you? Well, look at her actions across those 19 years. If they suit you, and I think they do, then I think you are probably good to go.

Thank you Trdd and everyone else on this thread. I am truly overwhelmed by your very thoughtful, articulate responses. Because of you, I’ve been able to see several different perspectives and been given several courses of action.

I spoke with her again tonight and she says that there was a guy who moved into the apartment upstairs from her sister’s. My girlfriend was staying with her sister and working with her in Denver over the summer. Well, the three of them were sitting out chatting on Sunday afternoon by the pool and my girlfriend’s sister mentioned they were getting concert tickets for the concert next Tuesday night. Then her sister, suggested that this guy take my girlfriend instead. She remembers that she didn’t want to do that, but he was excited about the band and really thought that was a good idea. So she said yes and that she had a boyfriend (me). So they made arrangements and he picked he up. On the way they saw the line was around the building, so they decided to go to a dance club instead....so I was right... she lied to me on the phone. I knew she didn’t go!!! Anyway, she says they danced and she taught him how to country dance like she learned her freshman year in Texas.....and that’s it!!! He took her home and that was the end of that!

It’s been 20 years and I just learned about it last weekend. I’m emotionally exhausted from the revelation, trying to get the facts and wanting to get back to normal. We have always loved each other. We are best friends and soulmates. I think I should just put this tumultuous week behind me and enjoy our marriage.

Thank you Trdd and everyone else on this thread. I am truly overwhelmed by your very thoughtful, articulate responses. Because of you, I’ve been able to see several different perspectives and been given several courses of action.

I spoke with her again tonight and she says that there was a guy who moved into the apartment upstairs from her sister’s. My girlfriend was staying with her sister and working with her in Denver over the summer. Well, the three of them were sitting out chatting on Sunday afternoon by the pool and my girlfriend’s sister mentioned they were getting concert tickets for the concert next Tuesday night. Then her sister, suggested that this guy take my girlfriend instead. She remembers that she didn’t want to do that, but he was excited about the band and really thought that was a good idea. So she said yes and that she had a boyfriend (me). So they made arrangements and he picked he up. On the way they saw the line was around the building, so they decided to go to a dance club instead....so I was right... she lied to me on the phone. I knew she didn’t go!!! Anyway, she says they danced and she taught him how to country dance like she learned her freshman year in Texas.....and that’s it!!! He took her home and that was the end of that!

It’s been 20 years and I just learned about it last weekend. I’m emotionally exhausted from the revelation, trying to get the facts and wanting to get back to normal. We have always loved each other. We are best friends and soulmates. I think I should just put this tumultuous week behind me and enjoy our marriage.

You need to fully address this now and be convinced that you know the whole story otherwise it will fester in the back of your mind and make things worse as time goes on.

[This message edited by Atrowspark at 10:41 PM, August 15th (Thursday)]