SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Also, MalibuBayBreeze, I do want to make this completely clear.

I am in absolutely no way disparaging or denying or thinking poorly AT ALL about your feelings towards your WH. I feel your same pain. I completely and totally understand exactly what you're feeling. My STBXW acts like a spiteful, hateful c*** because she misses her OM and OW, even while surrounded by her children in the house we own, looking forward to the day that I move out.

So I get it. 100%. I am on your side with this, regardless of whether or not I understand the chemical side of the WSs.

[This message edited by Incarnate at 9:56 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)]

Mbb,

I can’t quote, but simply going off how you addressed me above - then all cheaters need to be cheated on. To in your words, “ they have to experience themselves to understand it.”

So, RA’s for every betrayed? Openly cheating on a wayward? An eye for an eye?

I do not believe any of that would help a broken relationship where both are trying for reconciliation.

And, the larger pint was a voice for wayward. I have often hated their words and wanted lunch their face in through the computer, but I do champion the honest ones, and the honest, regretful waywards who try to help them.

Incarnate

No worries. I get it.

Greeneyesbluezy

No that's not what I'm saying at all so please don't take it that way. What I'm saying is there are things that a person cannot fully understand unless they experience it themselves. A RA isn't going to have the same effect on a WS. It's just not. They've already cheated. They're not a loyal spouse that's blindsided.

Mbb,

I’m crying. As a betrayed, no never, could they ever, know our deep dark, painful, ongoing, everlasting pain.

I guess I just think the wayward forum and some working forward waywards can take a new wayward in a direction to not further any pain and to understand the unreality of what they think they miss.

I just think they, as founders did, need their space, too.

To in your words, “ they have to experience themselves to understand it.”

I've said this to my exWW at various times. Usually in response to her saying that I didn't understand how difficult (having a relationship with two men) things were for her.

The experience of being a BS has been one of the most isolating and lonely of my life. Ironically, she is the type of person unable to be alone with herself, which was a contributing factor to her behavior IMO.

I didn't want to do a RA, it would have hurt me more than her I think. In my mind when I would say that, I was thinking of her AP to cheat on her, but at least someone other than me. Most likely though, she'll be the one to cheat on him if they stay together for the next few years.

((((Greeneyesbluezy))))

I guess I just think the wayward forum and some working forward waywards can take a new wayward in a direction to not further any pain and to understand the unreality of what they think they miss.

I hope they can. There are far too many BS's that find themselves facing another or multiple DDays. Affairs taken underground. False R. NC broken. The root cause of all that being the WS who is unable or unwilling to purge the AP from their minds.

It happens to those who swear their WS was doing everything right after DDay. True remorse or so they thought. I think all of us have the fear of being the next one to post about a new DDay. It's one of our biggest fears and to read about them pining for their AP stokes that fear.

They do have their space and there are sites solely devoted to them. SI is the only one I am aware of, because honestly I found this place almost immediately and had no desire to join another forum, that allows multiple forums which are inclusive to both sides of the fence.

Emotions run high particularly on our side. Not something we want or asked for. It is what it is and sometimes those emotions boil over. Doesn't help that I'm a few weeks away from the 4 year mark of finding that first crumb, so yeah I'm kinda sensitive. Memories of that moment are resurfacing, and I cannot believe it's 4 years. Been through a lot in that time aside from all this and though I'm not who I was then, I'm still a work in progress.

Stop crying. You'll ruin your mascara. ❤

I agree wholeheartedly as a BS with how disgusting and frustrating it is as a BS having to deal with a limerant WS still in the fog pining for the AP.

I think the best thing I did that snapped (or started to snap) my WH back to reality was to kick him out and basically say, "you're *so torn*? Then I'm making the decision for you, she can have you." And then I exposed to everyone, gave him a week to move out, started meeting with lawyers, went NC and we legally separated. When all he had was his psycho AP, suddenly she wasn't his soulmate anymore, and ahe started looking more and more like a selfish, angry bitch that liked to play the victim.

Just want to be clear we are talking about the pining WW who's BS is still in the dark? That one? The one who's AP's BS found out so now the little sad WW lost their f&€k buddy and is sad and miserable without them? That one? The still lying while pining WW?

Yeah, FTWW, and honestly the fact some are so adamantly offering empathy and compassion to that WW while "lecturing" struggling BSes is disheartening, to say the least.

If I allowed him, I'd likely have the most remorseful WH on this site but that would never give me reason to lecture or belittle other BSes on their pain or be so patronizing to say, "well just get a divorce!" Maybe they could have said that to the pining WW instead. The audacity!

I'm with you, MBB. FTG!

Vent over.

Missing AP + keeping it a secret = still in an active A.

Go ahead and pine, miss, love, whatever. Share that openly and honestly or GTFO and stop wasting my time.

I understand the addiction explanation. But come on. The A is supposed to be when you hit rock bottom and make changes. D-day is supposed to be when you hit rock bottom and make changes.

If an A isn't rock bottom enough to at least start trying to be honest then what would be? I guess D, if only you could be honest enough to let your BS know what they need to know in order to D.

I guess I get the "feelings" but keeping them hidden is inexcusable.

A reminder to everyone. Venting is okay. Venting about general concepts is also okay. Venting about specific posters n specific threads is NOT okay. The Wayward Forum is a safe place for them to work through their issues, and be held accountable by other wayward spouses. Stop trying to identify specific posters and threads or we'll have to shut this down.

If you find Wayward too triggery, you always have the option of not reading there. If you find yourself unable to stop reading there, you can always reach out to one of us and we can remove your access to that forum.

MBB, I completely agree with you....and I have a WH who has been 100% remorseful. For the past 9 years he has worked to fix what he destroyed. I never dealt with false R, I never witnessed him missing MOW, he never placed blame on anyone but himself. No amount of *hard work* will wash away the simple fact that he is a Wayward and his cheating behavior is no different than any other wayward: Selfish, hurtful, disgusting, dishonest, immoral...I could go on.

My husband cheated, and as a cheater many of the comments in this post apply to him. He worked hard for that Scarlet Letter and he will wear it for the rest of his life.

He now knows the meaning of consequences for your behavior and he must live with that.

[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 6:02 AM, November 21st (Thursday)]

MBB, there are so many posts like this a year, I’ve been here for five and have seen not only threads about it, but posts in reply to other topics.

As a BS in solid R, I will say this. A week after dday I found another fake Facebook page my FWH created to stalk the OW. He couldn’t believe he lost his great, young AP. I couldn’t decide what was actually going on, the fact that he missed her boring, vanilla sex OR he was jealous of which one of her 4,988 male friends she had moved onto.

I told him to go to her. No arguments, no fights no drama. Of course he didn’t leave. I’d like to say it woke him up out of the dream. But a month after dday I found another FB profile posting on her wall that was undoubtedly him. I even proved it couldn’t be him because this person posted while we were at dinner together at a table for two hours. Guess what? It revealed itself two years later that it had been him.

So I empathize with the BS that doesn’t have a remorseful spouse. It’s hard to discern what they don’t own their shit and make the concentrated efforts to help recover from the pain they have caused and rebuild the marriage. The waywards have their own place to discuss their situations and feelings. It’s naturally curious for a BS to want to know what is in their minds. We know it will be triggering. We know it will likely not be a walk in the sunshine (maybe a few rainbows floating by).

I can’t speak for MBB, who I am very fond of, but for myself, I know that there are many kinds of WS in the Wayward forum. I haven’t read there in a long while but these would be the threads that stick out to me also. Those still pining for their AP are broken souls who probably never went to IC or attempted to get any help. For anyone to make assumptions about a BS situation based on what they read is foolish. I sometimes read in D/S and have no intention of separating from my H.

The only difference is I have no experience to offer there so I don’t post it reply. And those of us who have been around a little while know that MBB doesn’t talk out of her ass.

I don’t think even the most remorseful of waywards could ever know what their betrayal has felt like to us. Not only were they not blindsided by the Mack truck that came and hit them head on, but until you’ve been gutted by the one person in the world that is supposed to have your back, you can’t feel it. And you’re right about RA’s, They don’t have the same effect. Especially to a WS posting about missing the AP.

I also think that how far away from Dday they are is crucial. I wasn’t sitting around for months waiting for my WH to continue making his social media profiles to follow OW’s life. I don’t know exactly when he wasn’t interested anymore. I think maybe around Christmas that year which would have been three months. If it had been longer than I would not be here.

[This message edited by Marie2792 at 5:56 AM, November 21st (Thursday)]

Duplicate post, sorry.

[This message edited by Marie2792 at 5:43 AM, November 21st (Thursday)]

What I don't understand is if they miss their AP sooo badly, why bother trying to R?

I know, it boggles my mind. Probably because in their selfish waywardness, they don't want to lose their comfy lifestyle...has nothing to do with loving their spouse...that ship sailed.

((((MBB)))) Thanks for the vent; I could not have "vented" it better myself. The pining for AP wayward's thinking and actions are sick, cruel and sadistic.

I guess I need to be more specific.

My post was to the person talking about my wife changing her tag line to happily married and making a snide comment about how happy I am. I take that as shaming me for my choices. That’s okay? My wife isn’t over in the wayward forum still saying she misses her AP, so why she had to be brought up is beyond me. It’s a recurring thing with that woman and I am over it. For someone to wonder how happy our marriage is, it’s rude and I don’t need that shit. Worry about your own shit.

I tried to speak up to her but you stepped right over that and egged her on to look at other posts. That’s how we got here. But yeah, if your ws is an asshat you should leave and let the rest of us worry about what ours is doing. My wife has asked me to stop, I want to respect her wishes.

Most of these comments are from a place of righteous anger and venting. It is the least a BS deserves, no doubt.

However, on a good day I like to try to see multiple perspectives of any issue. If I do that with this topic I come up with this. In some cases, certainly not all, it seems like A are like an addiction to pain killers. You have an injury or wound that causes you pain. Instead of fixing that wound directly and using over the counter pain killers you take a dangerous short cut, get some type of opioid and it relieves the pain in a huge way. But now you are addicted to the opioid. The "cure" you took is worse than the original malady. And you are hooked, physically and mentally to this "cure".

This perspective helps me understand that thread in the wayward forum. It doesn't absolve the WS from their actions, condone the A or anything else. But it helps me understand that some WS are really broken or wounded, they choose a terrible cure and get hooked. It isn't good for them, it isn't really dealing with the original reasons for the pain. It harms their BS and family terribly. But their "addiction" is real to them and they have to deal with it.

Not all As are like that but some are. Facts are what they are. We don't have to like them, but there they are. An opioid addict can wish they never started. They can see the damage it has done to their lives and to their loved ones and at the very same time still be addicted to the drug. With time, therapy and effort they can get through it. But for some WS, it isn't a light switch they can just turn off.

That dynamic may in itself cause some BS to end the marriage. The addiction being described as "love", yup, that could cause a BS to end the marriage, time for D. But I think the dynamic is real for some WS. The fact that it causes the BS terrible pain and justifiably causes anger does not mean it isn't very real to the WS that experience it.

If you find Wayward too triggery, you always have the option of not reading there. If you find yourself unable to stop reading there, you can always reach out to one of us and we can remove your access to that forum.

I know this is a warning from the Fuzz, but its also great advice. I recently asked to be blocked from the Wayward Forum. I was pain shopping in there. It wasn't helping me heal, so I needed to make a change. Avoiding your "enemy" while healing yourself isn't necessarily a bad thing.

This vent is valid though. If this is how you heal? Keep it up. For me, I needed to avoid them people for a while.

TTP, she didn't mention your wife specifically. And, honestly, your wife is not the only wayward who has that tagline.

Since you I've read here, every day for two years, I take it you're familiar with who sickofsurviving's Wayward husband is? Because he posts here. Her husband is abusive. Highly abusive. He's mean. He's cruel. He has worn her down. This woman has been through hell with this man. But you know that right? Since you read here every day for two years? So maybe instead of assuming that she has to be talking about your wife, you could see the pain behind her comments. She does not have a husband who has done any of the work. She has a husband who's been abusive and blamed her. She has tried to get away from him, but as it often is with women in abusive situations, they don't think they can get away from them. So saying she should just leave him, it sounds easy to do, but for an abused woman in an abusive situation, it's not always that easy. Some kindness and compassion is an order. Attacking an abused woman over what you perceive as an attack on your wife is unfair. Again, she is not he only wayward with that tagline. By far.

TTP, she didn't mention your wife specifically. And, honestly, your wife is not the only wayward who has that tagline.

I was about to mention this. I can think of multiple other WSes who fit that description who are not your WW, TTP. That wasn't a dig at you at all. And even though the tagline is the example given, we all know WSes who are half-assing R or refusing to R but do describe themselves as "happily married" to everyone else. And I highly highly doubt SoS has anything against you or your WW personally given her situation. I think you are reading far too much into this.

MBB, love the vent. Let it all out!

Thanks hellfire.

Honestly, until he attacked me, I had no idea who his cheater was. As he never posts. Funny, he could step up to attack me.

I am as away as I can get. I am in my house, he is in our semi.

Not that it's any of your business, TTP, but I am at the outer edges of my life expectancy. You see, I am a 2 time cancer survivor. The last time was my pancreas. I have spent the last 4 years of my life in absolute hell. Thanks to my cheater, and a female that was no different than your cheater. Leave? Divorce? Then what? If it hadn't been for someone exactly like your cheater, I would not be faced with any of this.

As to the tag line, there have been so many over the years. Or happily reconciled. If you or your cheater took that so personally, maybe you arent quite as emotionally healthy as you think.