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Crazyblindsided,

Would those files still be there if he didn’t back up his phone prior to deleting those texts? I’m just trying to gauge whether or not it’s worth having the fight, honestly. He values his privacy quite a bit, and when I confessed that I logged onto his computer to read his Facebook Messenger a few weeks after D-day, he wasn’t happy. Although, he understood and didn’t get mad or anything. I think he was just surprised that I did it more than anything.

But, he’s changed his tune quite a bit since then. He’s finally started remembering things (that he never really forgot) about the affair and has been answering my questions. He’s read a book that I requested him to read and now understands that, even if we stick with the party line that it was just an EA, it’s not up to him to decide how much it hurts me, and that, just because he didn’t see it as an affair at the time, it doesn’t’ mean it wasn’t one. He also says he’s willing to do anything I ask in order to get through it.

So to be clear, he hasn’t explicitly told me that I can’t see his phone, but he did change his password and keeps it with him. I’m honestly just kind of afraid to ask. But like, emergent8 said, if the relationship is going to heal, I guess I have to be willing to do whatever it takes, even if that means losing it.

I’m not sure how he’ll react to me demanding access to his phone, but I guess we’ll find out.

Privacy is for the bathroom. Once a spouse has cheated, they should be fully transparent. You get full access to everything. That is an obvious consequence.

If he fights you on it, he either isn't remorseful or he is hiding things.

Not allowing your spouse to have full access is not about privacy. It's about secrecy.

You have sacrificed a lot by staying with him. He can sacrifice his "privacy."

Would those files still be there if he didn’t back up his phone prior to deleting those texts?

As far as I know they should be there as long as he hasn't done a factory reset on the phone.

I'm a MH, I hope it's ok for me to reply.

Ugh. I hate that word "just". You are so correct in thinking that EAs are as destructive to a M as a PA. I hope for your sake the EA is over, but those ego kibbles have a strong pull. I would suggest getting a VAR and monitor what he says when you are not around. I did and it earned me a DDay #3, almost a divorce. I would have bet money that my WH's EA was over after DDay #2, but no, it was just ("just"...haha) more secretive. VARs are relatively cheap and easily hidden.

HellFire,

Once a spouse has cheated, they should be fully transparent. You get full access to everything.

Our couples counselor said this would undermine the efforts to rebuild trust. But, my best friend, who happens to have been cheated on by my husband's best friend (what a pair, eh?) last year, said that her therapist told her what you're saying now, that it's a key part of rebuilding trust.

That makes sense, and it feels like what I need right now. So, I'm telling him in the morning that I need access to his phone and computer. I'm mentally crossing my fingers that he understands and goes with it. If not, I guess I have my answer as to whether or not he really wants to try to reconcile or not.

My stomach is in knots thinking about it. I'm at the point where I kind of can't believe this is my life still.

How is everything fine one day and then total shit the next?

crazyblindsided,

Thanks for the info! I'm going to try it. We'll see what happens I guess. Ugh.

FindingDory,

I welcome every response and thank you for it :). That's good advice. I'm just not sure I'm ready to go there yet. The polygraph and the VAR just seem like a step too far right now. Maybe I'll get to a place where I'm not so freaked out by the idea, but I'm not there yet.

For now, I'm going to settle for asking for access to his phone and computer, and not after he has time to audit it first. If he says no or gets offended, I guess I'll have to tell him to go. I don't know. This fucking sucks.

Our couples counselor said this would undermine the efforts to rebuild trust. But, my best friend, who happens to have been cheated on by my husband's best friend (what a pair, eh?) last year, said that her therapist told her what you're saying now, that it's a key part of rebuilding trust.

Him being secretive and not open isn't exactly rebuilding trust. So what does this counselor say he should do to rebuild trust? Is he doing it?

He hasn't really given much guidance on that subject. He just says that my husband should keep being there and check in with me frequently when he can't.

We're not going back to him though. I'm not sure seeing him did us much good. Maybe we'll try again in the future.

Joanna

Oh I cannot believe that marriage counselor told you that.

Please find a new one... take what they say with a grain of salt. We went to several one was like yours and wanted to rugsweep the affair but at least would often agree with me on certain subjects. The second my husband was able to manipulate her. I wasn’t sure if she was really qualified and said things that would piss me off. Because suddenly she was blaming me for the affair and I needed to forgive him.

The third was smart enough not to fall for his games. But she often didn’t want to address the affair. Finally I told her I would not continue until we dealt with him and his affair. Then she started pressuring him more since he claimed he could not remember. She told him point blank that I needed full transparency all email accounts passwords etc.

But by that point I had already gotten his phone and downloaded dr fone or some other programs like tracking and etc and gotten many texts. But it’s better if you can just take it to a phone place so they can get the information for you.

Once I had many of the text and emails I could see it wasn’t just emotional. I used the texts and pretended that the sow was answering my questions. That’s how I corroborated her taking the plan B pill him buying a party box of condoms. Which I was able to get copies of the receipts that helped with the timeline since he couldn’t remember

I would quote exact texts and emails and Then suddenly he could remember. He started to get scared shitless because somehow I knew what they were saying and he never suspected that I had hacked into his phone or emails.

I finally did get him to take the polygraph. He failed on 3 counts sex with her. Sex with other women which meant he lied either about the other EAs or there are other affairs.

It made me realize that no matter how much he dances around the questions he’s a cheater and liar. So either I kick him out or live with it.

Edited to add

Please get tested for STDs. Once I realized he’s lying I went to my doctor. It was good because I had 2 STDs. Thankfully not life threatening but it confirmed it. We hadn’t been intimate for a long time. He claimed to have ED...I remember while he was having the affair he came to my room to say thank you for dinner. I had done a special dinner for valentines and he didn’t come home until late. Yep he was “working” on a deadline. We weren’t big Valentine’s Day celebrations people anyway but it was with our daughter and I had gotten her some candies and little stuff toys. And sparkling apple cider so my daughter and I enjoyed ourselves. Anyway I got off point he initiated sexually and we had sex. Turns out he had been with her the day before. Not sure if it was their first time but it was so fucked up once I found out. I remember that day because we were cuddling and I offered him to stay to sleep with me. We were sleeping in separate rooms after his 2nd EA. He was laying down and then suddenly he got up and said I would sleep better alone. That night my heart broke, little did I know what was coming. Talk about foreshadowing

[This message edited by Hurtbeyondtime at 4:15 AM, February 22nd (Saturday)]

So to be clear, he hasn’t explicitly told me that I can’t see his phone, but he did change his password and keeps it with him.

Sometimes It’s not the affair that kills the marriage, but the behavior by the cheating spouse that is what ruins any possibility of reconciliation. In my opinion, this is one of those behaviors that would potentially undermine any success for reconciliation.

There is no "just". There is no "only". The betrayal a BS experiences is the worst betrayal for them. No minimization, please.

He's still keeping secrets. Your counsellor is useless. I'm glad you are dumping him. He wants you to behave in a harmful way for you to rebuild trust with your WH. It is up to your WH to rebuild trust with you by, firstly, being totally honest and transparent. His secrets don't do that.

Like the others here I greatly question whether it was "just" and emotional affair. Given time, opportunity, willingness and "lurve" these things don't stay emotional very long. My WW's didn't.

I don't understand why using a VAR and a polygraph is not where you are willing to go to yet. The VAR is to see if there is continued contact (affairs go underground). The poly is to check if it was "just" an EA.

The opinions offered by your "friends" are made in ignorance. Can your husband not have female friends is bullshit. The real question is if your WH can have SECRET female friends and the answer is a resounding NO.

I'm glad the OBS shared his discovery with you. It is what is typically recommended BSs do.

I recommend "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda J. McDonald. It is directions for the WS but the BS should read it, too, IMO because it illustrates what a remorseful spouse looks and acts like. Keeping secrets and hiding things is definitely one of the things that destroys any true reconciliation.

I've always been more scared of emotional affairs than physical ones. Allowing yourself to have feelings for a person other than your partner gives you connection you shouldn't have. These people checkout on their partners and for me that's a tougher battle. I think it's why I was able to move past the A the first time cause I thought it was just physical and we can still work on our marriage. But nope, 2nd DDay came and outright I knew he had feelings for this OW. Separate we go then.

Hugs Joanna. We're here with you.

I think BSes need to ask lots of questions, most of them from multiple points of view multiple times over a longish period of time.

You get to ask 2-4 questions on a poly test. The poly wouldn't have worked for me.

Joanna, I think I agree that you're misreading your gut in some way. Your H is still hiding things, and that bodes poorly for R, IMO.

Keep your courage up - ask for transparency, which is access to all his electronic media. No messing with passwords - he tells you the new one when he creates it, etc., etc., etc.

IMO, it's especially important to raise the issues that scare you. Those are the deal killers, if they're not resolved, and if your WH isn't willing to work with yo to get a good resolution, you don't need that H.

I know that's easier said than done, but R can't happen without honesty, with yourself and with others.

Sisoon

I understand that the polygraph doesn’t get you all the answers but if he fails “ ihave you had sex with anyone other than your wife” that’s quite telling. It means he’s a cheater.

Joanna , early on we are in shock. We really don’t want to believe that they would do this to us. I remember when a good friend told me not to trust him too early because he’s likely still lying and there’s probably a lot more than I know. She had suffered from infidelity as well and I remember I couldn’t understand full. But she was right. I hadn’t gone through all the stages.

We just see things that are huge red flags and we don’t want to be fooled by him again. He’s not transparent and not truely remorseful. It could be they are still having the affair otherwise why delete the messages and emails.

He’s hiding the truth. And don’t believe his crocodile tears 😭.

He’s upset that he got caught nothing else.

I understand that the polygraph doesn’t get you all the answers but if he fails “ ihave you had sex with anyone other than your wife” that’s quite telling. It means he’s a cheater.

I don't know about that question, wouldn't you start thinking about anyone you had sex with before your current relationship? I guess it's implied if during the relationship, but I wonder if the answer to that question could yield inconclusive results or a false positive.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 10:12 AM, February 22nd (Saturday)]

It is easy to alter the question for a poly to "have you had sexual contact with anyone other than your wife since you became engaged or since you became exclusive".

The a good poly examiner will help craft the questions and explain them so there is no ambiguity and the pertinent question will be asked. Only questions that can be answered with a yes or no can be asked. Clarity means that sex is clarified to include oral, manual, heavy necking, groping, fondling or anything else that the BS wants it to be.

Thanks for everyone’s responses!

An update: I asked him last night if he would be willing to be fully transparent with his phone and computer, and he said of course he would. He offered to unlock his phone and computer and then take the dog for a walk so that I could look through everything.

I’m so incredibly relieved that he responded that way!! I honestly thought it’d be the end of our relationship if I asked. I guess if that doesn’t sum up our communication issues, I don’t know what does.

I haven’t recovered the deleted texts, but he hasn’t had any contact with her on social media, email or text.

As far as the VAR is concerned, it feels a little too much like spying to me. It just doesn’t feel right. But I’ll ask my therapist what she thinks when I start IC on Thursday.

That's good news.

Did he unlock the phone for you, or give you the password?

Does he have a fingerprint access too? If so, add yours to the access.

Shattered

The question was posed in a manner that asked if he had sex with anyone while we were married. Then differently. Did he have sex with any of the OW involved in the emotional affairs. And had he had sex with anyone else besides me in the last 5 years. He was caught lying on all 3 questions

And then he asked point blank if he had sex with the Sow. He told the truth on that one.

Then he was asked if he had sex with anyone else besides me or the SOW in the last 10 years. That he failed which gave me time frame and it was most likely that the EAs were PAs.

Edited to Add

Joanna there is no too much spying. I understand you are still early in discovery. I my friend said don’t forgive him too quickly. I was like you. Almost making excuses for his attitudes and behaviors. And then suddenly it hit me like a ton of bricks.

He was deleting and covering all kinds of shit. Later on when I realized that I indeed needed to spy I couldn’t recover everything. I wish I had placed the Var because I later found out that during NC they had met up!!! Once for their last fuck then a couple of times later. She couldn’t believe it was over and had to see him 🙄

That probably would have changed the way I handled him because at that time I was still believing his bullshit story of not having sex with her.

Believe me Joanna do everything it doesn’t hurt. Why is it spying too much. Are you afraid of finding out the truth. And the truth could be he’s having sex or he’s not.

You loose nothing now but if you wait you could lose the truth.

Good luck

[This message edited by Hurtbeyondtime at 12:26 AM, February 28th (Friday)]