SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You are dealing with a totally unremorseful spouse. You are hoping that if she knows OM doesn't have rights to the baby that she'll be with you. She doesn't want to be with you. She is waiting for nothing to make her decision.

I'm sorry to say this, but your wife is already gone. It is hard to catch up to that fact.

Your "letter" to your friend has much of the same fix-it attitude you have had from the beginning. What you will eventually (I hope) learn is that you cannot fix this if your wife is not on board. Your wife is not on board.

I have been reading your story, and I am sorry that you are in such pain.

This part of your last post stuck out like a sore thumb, though:

He can be the godfather or the ‘uncle’ or something. Bottom line, he can have a relationship with the kid but perhaps the best thing for the child is to have that relationship be something other than father-child.

Please think about this before you decide that this is the best course of action. I have experience with finding out that a family relationship isn't what it appeared to be, and the fallout from that later on down the line turned out to be devastating to all parties concerned. If there's one thing that kids hate, it's when they're lied to for a majority of their lives and then find out later - the hurt and anguish is palpable (and there's a high probability that they'll lash out). Again, speaking from experience here.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do. There's no doubt that you've been handed a very harsh situation.

Strange - You are getting there, and I think that what you have just proposed is more than fair. However this....

I will also suggest another meeting with the OM to discuss what is best for the child.

Should NOT be on the table, or even part of your negotiations. You know legally you have the ball in your court, and can refuse this douche anything. I would not consider giving her this option of "Uncle Douche" or "Godfather Douche" I would say it's me or it's not. Period.

Again, paternity has yet to even be proven.

Next who cares if he is the daddy, if the new baby is a little browner, or tans more easily who cares. Seriously, in this day and age, mixed families, and I mean different kids from multiple different parents, are so common, that none of their friends are gonna ask why the baby is different.

You are offering her an amazing gift where a lot of men, and great dads would leave nothing but scorched earth. If hse can't see that then she doesn't deserve you.

She never would have seen my transformation, the very transformation that has her currently waffling.

This sentence really bothers me. You & Your transformation have nothing, nothing to do with why she cheated or why she will choose to stay. SHE needs to figure out why she decided cheating was the appropriate action to the shortcomings in herself.

See the theme there? The quicker you realize this has/had nothing to do with you, the quicker she might also be able to begin to work on herself.

No, I get it. At first I put almost all of this on my shoulders. Now I put much of our marriage problems on my shoulders but the affair is squarely on hers. My statement about my transformation is simply true, however. If I hadn't reprioritized my life then she would be gone. That doesn't make it proper or healthy but it is a fact to which she has attested.

You are dealing with a totally unremorseful spouse. You are hoping that if she knows OM doesn't have rights to the baby that she'll be with you. She doesn't want to be with you. She is waiting for nothing to make her decision.

I'm sorry to say this, but your wife is already gone. It is hard to catch up to that fact.

Your "letter" to your friend has much of the same fix-it attitude you have had from the beginning. What you will eventually (I hope) learn is that you cannot fix this if your wife is not on board. Your wife is not on board.

I'm not using the law as a bargaining chip. It's just that she has been unwilling or unable to consider the consequences of what she has done. I'm just letting her know how it's going to be either way. None of this is aimed at trying to persuade her to stay. It's aimed at trying to get her to understand the situation, to realize that she cannot keep me in limbo and that I also have a choice in this matter. If she's not on board then let's deal with that now rather than four months from now.

I'm just letting her know how it's going to be either way

You're forgetting that she could go see her own attorney, file for divorce and have full custody of all the kids and end up living with OM.

Your thinking is on the right track. But it's a bad plan.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 4:11 PM, February 18th (Tuesday)]

I will also suggest another meeting with the OM to discuss what is best for the child.

Are you out of your mind? This LEGITIMIZES his involvement if you and your WW stay together! Why would you do this? Your attorney should have your hide for even suggesting this. If he wants to be a parent, he can flipping well petition for paternity after the child is born.

Stop making him a factor. Just stop it. Start treating him like the non-factor he is, at least in your life.

Your focus should be on what is best for you and what you need. You cannot control your WW. You can't make things attractive for her because she is broken and is going to do what she damn well pleases. You can (and should) set serious consequences for specific behaviors, but other than that . . . you aren't in control of this circus other than your own choices and behaviors.

It's time for tough love. Seriously, nothing else has worked and nothing else WILL work. Tough love may even fail.

She commits or she doesn't. If she does, there are one set of responses. If she doesn't, there are another. Frankly, she's not thinking about ANYONE but herself at this point. She is not thinking about the kids or the reality of divorce or any of that stuff. Trust me--I've seen this first hand. Talking about custody and such makes not one whit of difference. I know this from my own dealings. They don't care. They really and truly think everything is going to be wonderful and folks are going to fart rainbows because (wait for it) they THINK it will be JUST LIKE THAT. That's the power of the fog and delusional WS thinking.

You can't fix this on your own, you can't force her to join you and you can't keep her from continuing to make poor choices. The only thing you control is you.

Start making decisions for YOU.

Make the OM a non-factor as far as you are concerned. The more you legitimize his involvement, the more he is going to feel entitled. Stop it.

Cat

You're forgetting that she could go see her own attorney, file for divorce and have full custody of all the kids and end up living with OM.

Nope, the law is on my side in this regard. 50/50. There are no grounds for adjustment.

Do you want her to stay in the marriage due to possibly losing 50% custody of your boys? I know your letter explains the law but it sounds like you are using the kids to guilt her into staying.

As far as the OM not having any paternal rights I would bet a good atty could make sure the bio father has more than just a little visitation.

Paternity hasn't been determined yet... do not meet with him AGAIN.

I'm not using the law as a bargaining chip. It's just that she has been unwilling or unable to consider the consequences of what she has done. I'm just letting her know how it's going to be either way. None of this is aimed at trying to persuade her to stay. It's aimed at trying to get her to understand the situation, to realize that she cannot keep me in limbo and that I also have a choice in this matter. If she's not on board then let's deal with that now rather than four months from now.

You are using it as a bargaining chip in the hopes that it persuades your wife to stay with you. At the very least be honest with yourself SAF!

She isn't considering the consequences because (excuse the shouting here) SHE HASN'T HAD TO FACE ANY CONSEQUENCES! Telling her what the consequences will be is useless. SHOW HER!

As far as getting her to understand the situation, she created the situation. Do you honestly think she doesn't understand it?

The only one keeping you in limbo is you, not your wife. You are worthy and capable. If she cannot see that, all the talking in the world isn't going to change it.

She will think I’m giving her an ultimatum. What I’m really giving her is a choice. I will offer her and our children financial and emotional stability. I will offer my commitment to work with her. I will offer her the chance to have an intact family. I will offer her and the kids the full-time support of a “grade A” (her words) parent. She can choose to try to rebuild our relationship and in the process retain full legal and physical custody of all of her children.

Sounds like you'll be doing all the "work" if she chooses you.

Also be prepared to hand over/state her requirements to stay M, i.e.,

*IC for 6 months, followed by MC (or whatever)

*transparency to include GPS on her smartphone

*strict communication guidelines for contact with OM AFTER child's birth

*reading list -- to begin with "Not ‘Just Friends’: Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity" by Shirley P. Glass (398 pages of pure gold!) and "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful" by Linda J. MacDonald (98 pages long)-- and ongoing discussions with you

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*whatever it takes for you to feel safe in the M

She will think I’m giving her an ultimatum. What I’m really giving her is a choice. I will offer her and our children financial and emotional stability. I will offer my commitment to work with her. I will offer her the chance to have an intact family. I will offer her and the kids the full-time support of a “grade A” (her words) parent. She can choose to try to rebuild our relationship and in the process retain full legal and physical custody of all of her children.

Sounds like you'll be doing all the "work" if she chooses you.

Sounds like it but this is nothing more than I was doing before.

*whatever it takes for you to feel safe in the M

Absolutely. It's not as if she could say OK and then we're OK. If she says OK then we start the next conversation about what that entails.

Your WW's cheating had nothing to do with you or your M. Its entirely her fault.

Your WW's cheating had nothing to do with you or your M. Its entirely her fault.

Yup, got that now.

I want to second what a bad idea it would be to have the child see OM as "Uncle" or whatever else you come up with. He is either his father or he's nothing. I have a brother who found out his aunt and cousin were really his grandmother and mother when he was 9 years old. I am estranged from him as he has done nothing with his life except try to self-destruct since the age of 9.

You cannot tell yourselves that you will wait until he is older and understands more, in case that thought arises. It will be a LIE and he will HATE it and you for doing it. And I am sure he will find out one way or another who his father is because some people just love to be the one to tell kids this "truth." Horrible, horrible thing to go through, believe me.

Concerning your letter to your friend - I think you should file and knock your wife off that fence NOW. It will either happen or it will not, either way you will have your answer. You being so understanding of her situation is making her lose more and more respect for you every single day.

I want to second what a bad idea it would be to have the child see OM as "Uncle" or whatever else you come up with. He is either his father or he's nothing. I have a brother who found out his aunt and cousin were really his grandmother and mother when he was 9 years old. I am estranged from him as he has done nothing with his life except try to self-destruct since the age of 9.

Thanks so much for the advice and I'm so sorry for your brother. If my WW is willing to do what it takes to reconcile we'll probably seek the advice of some professionals, too.

Concerning your letter to your friend - I think you should file and knock your wife off that fence NOW. It will either happen or it will not, either way you will have your answer. You being so understanding of her situation is making her lose more and more respect for you every single day.

I hear you. . .but what's the downside to having a conversation first?

Strange,

I am just going to reiterate what I and many of the others have stated. Just keep your thoughts open, okay?

I REALLY, REALLY like brokenblackbird's last post. I suggest that you reread that several times. I do believe that you are so focused on what you want as the outcome, that you are convincing yourself of things that just are not true. Or, you know it to be true, but won't acknowledge such.

If I hadn't reprioritized my life then she would be gone. That doesn't make it proper or healthy but it is a fact to which she has attested.

I asked you many, many pages before this--if this was the case, why didn't she file?

The answer--she wasn't going anywhere. Do you think that your WW thought about ANYTHING other than what was in the moment? Did she think ONE TIME about her kids while she was trying to make a "new" family?

You say that your transformation has made her waffle. Sorry, friend, but I say bullshit. And my reasoning behind that is exactly what she has done since then---NOTHING. The same amount of effort she was putting in to "leaving" you. I know that I may be coming across as a jerk, but if that is what it takes to have some sort of positive effect on you, then I am all for it. Everyone here posting on this thread is for it. They want you to see what we can see as clear as day...that you have to start the work on yourself, and also show your WW some consequences.

We are all not just telling you divorce, and never look back(although some of us might), but we are telling you to take back control of your life. Respect yourself more---you are worth it. You have given your WW WAY, WAY more respect than she deserves at this point, and she is giving close to zero in return....no matter what you believe. I know that sounds presumptuous, and maybe even arrogant, but if nothing else, we know what an unremorseful spouse acts like.

Sorry, strange. Sometimes we just have to yell at our computer screens. We just want to help.

I waffle between wanting to hug you and shaking you til your head looks like a bobble doll. I cant really even say anything because when I was this fresh out I had a hard time making myself take a shower. You are a good guy with the best of intentions under near impossible circumstances. It seems that you are ever so willing to sacrifice your own needs at the alter of everyone else's best interest. But, most of us are further down the road than you and have fought our way out with a clearer vision of what just happened to us and, at a year out, I do not consider myself an authority by any means.

Eventually you are going to have the benefit of hindsight but, please know that everyone here is really trying to help you avoid the same mistakes that we made in not demanding the respect we deserved. When we compromise our standards and cower in fear of what we stand to lose it gives the wayward a false sense of power over us. And yes, it is perceived as power.

Everybody has to move in their own time and you are no exception. I'm just afraid that when things do come into focus for you in the near future you are going to feel resentment like you've never known. Even if your WW comes around and decides to get in to the M you are going to remember that you were the only one to do the heavy lifting here. Its really hard not to hold a grudge. Not one person in this mix has given a care for what you are going thru yet you are working your ass off to make sure everyone is considered and everything comes out as fair.

People have as much power as you give them. In light of your WW's actions with her OM, they should not even expect that they have any "rights" over the pain they have brought into your life.

Take care friend.

I hear you. . .but what's the downside to having a conversation first?

Because actions speak louder than words.

Talking hasn't worked so far, why do you think it's going to work now?

You need to think about your "transformation" from a different perspective. Your wife goes out, has an affair and gets pregnant by the other man. She tells you she "loves him" and cannot recommit to you.

Your reaction to this is a personal "transformation" to become a better husband.

It's almost like she has been "rewarded" for her behavior. What incentive does she have to change, feel bad, do anything different? There is no discomfort here for her!

I've been following this thread.

Isn't the paramount thing to determine asap the paternity of the child? What if it is your child?