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When you told her that if she meet with AP on this trip, you were done. Something has changed in your thinking. What is your strategy now. Have you decided R is the road you want to take?

She's lying and back in control.

I won’t add to anything to what I said in my last post, I still think you should give her a similar set of requirements.

But to comment on your update I think it’s important for maintaining control that you still go to the lawyer today and start the D process. Otherwise you only have loosely held promises from her and little real truth.

Tell her that her actions have ended your marriage and that if she wants to attempt to create a new one it will have to be after officially ending this one. Of course you can stop the D process at any point if she turns things around. Or go thru with it and let her try to win back your heart. But filing means control. Having her served has impact. You need to use that tool to make things happen.

Tell her if you don’t have the truth about all the trips and EVERYTHING that happened, then you have nothing. And if you find out something later she is sunk. You need details now.

Finally, I seemed to remember you previously said you had encouraged her to go back to school or back to work. You should remind her of that fact and that while first she should now first work to figure herself out in IC, but that option is still available down the road.

I want to give you credit for starting to listen to everyone here. They have been down this same road hundreds of times. They truly do have your best interest at heart.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 7:27 AM, March 19th (Monday)]

A big part of the problem is that I am a hopelessly sweet guy and she knows it. I have wanted R from the beginning but honestly didn’t think that would be possible because of her remorselessness. I know I’m still missing a large part of the story... I would guess I got 1/2 truths and rugsweeping but I am a huge cynic.

She certainly didn’t say the A wasn’t enjoyable and while she agreed to STD testing she qualified by saying she didn’t think it was possible. I’m not sure that part matters to me... it was an emotional and physical affair. It does matter what she did in Sydney after I told her she couldn’t continue her affair. I will have to confront her further, possibly with a counselor’s help.

One other thing. Tell her if she’s going to have any chance she needs to give you open access to her phone and that she should not delete ANYTHING. Tell her if she does then you will have no chance together.

Then she should give you everything she knows about the guy so you can figure out who he is.

She should write the NC letter and let you read it first. It should be cold and direct. And you need to watch her send it.

Then you need to run Dr Fone on iher phone to recover all lost texts. You can even hire a service to recover them.

One goal you should have is to figure out who he is and inform his spouse that he has cheated on her with your wife.

You will know if she is truly serious if she lets you do this without hesitation. Her life abroad has ended, she has to accept this and actually want it to be over for you to have a chance.

If she is Pining away for him and protecting him then you need to let her know you that is unacceptable and there will be no chance at Reconciliation with her taking that position.

Typical WW trickle truthing.

Only will admit to what you can prove and deny what

you cannot.

Tell WW that you are scheduling a polygraph test.

Your WW has confessed her reasons for having an A and what happened on her most recent trip. From the perspective of an outsider the idea that a grown woman would travel half way around the world to meet a man for heavy petting is pretty funny actually, but I realize that this is very serious stuff for you and your family and not a laughing matter. Stevesn wrote a great outline of what your WW should be willing to do for reconciliation in your marriage. But the real question is: What do you need from your WW to feel that she is a safe partner? Your WW has agreed to do some of the things outlined by Stevesn. But talk is cheap. Her actions will tell you what you need to know. Also, how much do you need to know the details of her A? Do you care enough to dig to see if she is lying about going to Sydney alone? How important is her being honest with you?

The more troubling aspect of your update was your WW’s confession about her motivation to cheat. Your WW said she was depressed because felt like she had achieved nothing and was inferior to you in intelligence and social stature, and being a mother of three children doesn’t make her feel accomplished. Wow, just Wow! This coming from the woman you entrust to raise healthy, well adjusted children. If you intend to stay in this marriage she needs therapy to the point that she can demonstrate that she values being a parent to three wonderful children and what a true gift and accomplishment motherhood is. Obviously she also needs to start a job that will give her some sense of worth, but only to the extent that your children are in school and don’t require her.

These are not really tangential issues to her infidelity. She said her attitude about being a SAHM and lack of career accomplishments compared to you drove her to the infidelity. If you believe her these issues need to be addressed if you are to move forward. Just my two cents. Strength to you and your family.

Ask any Guy who has dealt with WW, and majority will tell you your woman is reading straight from cheaters Bible. She will use tears and sex to reel you back in.

Polygraph!

Sorry to be barking so many orders at you but you really need to be in triage mode these first few days if you are seriously trying to save your marriage. We all want to see you succeed.

In all honesty you should have possession of her phone right now. I would just take it and tell her she will get it back when you are satisfied you know everything and that she should give you a full confession and you will verify it by what you find on the phone and via a polygraph that you will schedule.

If she is serious about reconciliation she should want you to do these things.

In addition to the affair issues, I think your wife also needs to discuss her treatment of and attitude toward your children with her IC. They probably know she wishes she hasn't had them and that is not good for their long-term mental well being, success, and happiness. You don't want them going out into the world to wreck havoc on others because of their lack of self esteem and worth from having a mother that doesn't care about them. She needs to be trustworthy partner to you, but also a stable, dependable affectionate parent to her children.

If your going to give R a chance considering helping your wife attempt R well by finding a book or other resource that can help her understand the importance of being fully truthful and meeting your demands. I am not suggesting this site as she does not need to see your posts at this point (if ever). But I think most cheaters need to be educated about the torture and damage that trickle truth has on BS, the need to be completely open, and the reality of living with the BS emotions as they work through all of their feelings. I'm sorry I can't recommend such a resource I dealt with my cheating significant other several years back and pointed him to several on line resources that I don't recall. It did seem to help him because it gave him an organized approach to dealing with me. I could tell he was utilizing the resources. I don't think there is any way he would of come up with any form of healthy approach without the help as he was consumed in working through not only the pain he had wrecked on me, but the shame and disappointed in himself.

Good luck because no matter what happens the next few months will be mind boggling difficult, and the next few years will be hard.

When I was diagnosed with cancer I was told that treatment would take a full year. The horrific part (repeated surgeries chemo, and radiation) was a year, but the recovery back to what I considered a 'normal' state took a few more years after that. Recovery from cheating is a similar timeline for most, including the part where most of us will always having a fear of recurrence. But it will go from something you think about ever minute, to hour, to day, to eventually you will go months without thinking of it. I personally believe if you trusted someone and lost that trust that the realization you can't really know someone is with you for life.

I'm glad you confronted her but ... you really didn't get anything that you didn't have proof of prior to the trip and/or didn't make her a sympathetic victim playing on your "good-guy" nature. Her story doesn't make sense at all. She depleted your saving and put you in a financial hole for 4 sexually charged visits to NZ but...didn't actually have sex. She was depressed but the fact that she couldn't arouse him built up her ego and warranted more visits? She continued sending OM numerous sexual emails, pictures, even after you told her you knew about the Affair, didn't come home early as promised but added a new "vacation spot" for the time she was planning to be with him... telling her friend not to come...??? Oh and her reason for doing all of this is manipulation at it's finest...your are just so great it made me feel lowly...So many red flags, so many lies. You can't say she seems to be remorseful if she is lying...

You've got some email/text information on OM. I'd use it to try to find out more on him. What "depressed" chat room did she use? You do know they can still be in communication via "words with friends" other games - they need to be removed. He could be some poor sap that believes her lies, or be "pretending" also.

Finally, no you should not be having sex with your WW. You are a doctor, you know some of the STDs you can get. I'd tell her to sleep on the couch. That because of your job you really need your sleep and that she caused this. If she has 1% remorse/guilt she would willingly move to the coach.

Do not be blinded by her tears. They mean nothing except that she got caught.

[This message edited by Freeme at 5:59 PM, March 19th (Monday)]

She knows you are a nice guy and has taken advantage of that. She is NOT your wife right now. Your wife doesn't have relationships and sex with other guys. If you don't snap her out of it your going to live in this world of shit for a long time. I would implement Stevesn's route to the T. Either way you get out of this miserable state. You dont want to linger here. Each day does not work in your favor. The longer she maintains the relationship the harder she will be to get back. She is normalizing it in her head, snap her out. And if she's to far gone you get to start healing. Don't waste one more day of your life.

Plus you will be able to hold your head up and know she had a chance to make this right.

Really rooting for you. Be selfish and do what you need to do for you. She is a teenage kid that needs tough love. Don't enable her.

Really really rooting for you man. So sorry this happened to you. Go take control!

She's admitted to the absolute least possible assured that you can't prove otherwise. her 'story' is a nice sorta security blanket for youbto hold onto but I'm sure you know deep down its nonsense.

Should I tell her I unlocked her phone and saw dirty messages and messages while during her most recent trip? I have a receipt saying I destroyed the phone from the Apple store (even though it’s not destroyed). Is this just another game I shouldn’t play? I could just ask to see her messages straight away tonight after kids go to bed.

Its OK to tell her you know about and have seen them, but don't ever reveal your sources or techniques...ever.

Why do you still want R? No judgement, just asking.

NO!!! DON'T TELL HER!!

She can wipe it clean with icloud or the find my phone app... even if she thinks it's destroyed!

She met OM in a depression chat room and traveled to meet him. He is a married man, she doesn’t know his real name but calls him “Bill”.

So, she's gone to NZ 4 times to see/stay with/travel with/have sex with a guy, and she doesn't know his name?

Everything else she has said sounds like her attempts at minimizing. We "only kissed", "it was only once", "he couldn't finish", "it was bad", etc. Once caught, how many waywards state that "they realized what they were losing". A LOT! It's part of the cheater's handbook.

I am going to be a little harsh, but please understand, I am trying to help.

I also have to ask why you are so obsessed with R? You don't consider your WW a good mother, and she has been lying to your face about the A for quite a while. What exactly are her positive attributes?

She is still lying to and must think you are stupid. She didn't have sex because he has ED? Even if true, does it make any difference? She certainly would have and wanted to. She still lied to your face about the A and her reasons for going, ignored every opportunity to commit to the M and R by canceling the trip or returning early. And she is protecting the AP by giving you a bullshit story that she doesn't know his name! WTF! Seriously? And you believe that?

Your WW has no interest in R. She is feeding you bullshit to try to push this aside so things can go back to "normal" where she contacts men online and makes plans to go to meet them for sex whenever she wants and you pay the bills.

You don't love this woman. You love who you thought she was. She is showing you she is not a good person, she is not worthy of you and she is not a good mother.

Protect yourself and your children.