SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm one who usually, but not always, recommends people take some time making life altering decisions. To not make those decisions when highly emotional.

There are some who seem to be able to get to the stage where they see clearly very quickly. They evaluate and implement clearly even when under duress.

Something that has been mentioned in this thread is that even if the WS is doing everything right, is fully remorseful, quickly jumped on board and all in genuinely the BS is not obligated to R. It's mentioned in this thread but not often and seems to be overlooked. The decision is entirely the BS's to make. If it is a deal breaker it's a deal breaker.

Neanderthal,

I am so very sorry for you.

I know but you said that you would not make any decisions until October, but I think the time has come for you to stop this slow bleeding to death that you’re currently in. Yes, divorce sucks, but I think you need to do something to get out of this hell that you’re in. It seems to me that what she’s done is a dealbreaker and there is nothing that you can do but to move on.

It seems to me you have a choice of either ripping the Band-Aid off slowly or quickly. You have been pulling it off ever so slowly since the day. I think the time is come to pull it off quickly and in one swoop.

I think the time is come for you to talk to a lawyer and get the process started.

I wish you nothing but the best of luck, and I know it is hard to believe, but the old saying is true, time does heal.

Continue to be the best father in the world to your daughter. However, to be the best father in the world does not mean that you have to stay married to that selfish woman, who has shown you, and continues to show you, who she really is.

Good luck and stay strong.

I think the people that are trying to convince you to wait or to not divorce your debatably remorseful WW are projecting. They wish their wayward spouses had done or said that things that she's posting on here about doing or saying.

ibonnie has it right. I tend not to use projection because this is a support forum. We're all projecting every time we post on someone else's thread. We're all using our experience to give support and advice. That's not a bad thing and it's not the same as projecting in a psychological defense mechanism sense.

But I agree completely that some times people get very caught up in what looks like an ideal R situation between two posters here even when it's clear that it's not an ideal R in reality. Some of us really do want to R or did and didn't get the chance. Some of us have WSes we are trying to R with who seem less remorseful than Neaderthal's WW appears. Some times it's hard to see a WS who is saying everything right and think that their BS would be crazy not to jump on that opportunity.

Something that has been mentioned in this thread is that even if the WS is doing everything right, is fully remorseful, quickly jumped on board and all in genuinely the BS is not obligated to R. It's mentioned in this thread but not often and seems to be overlooked. The decision is entirely the BS's to make. If it is a deal breaker it's a deal breaker.

Yes, I say this all of the time and I will say it again: R IS GIFT. IT IS NEVER OWED. You could have the most perfect, remorseful, ideal WS and you STILL NEVER owe them R. Never ever.

And I'd like to point out that if the A is a deal breaker and the BS cannot stay in the marriage, R IS NEVER a good choice for anyone. Not the BS. Not the WS. Not the kids. Even a WS deserves someone who loves them in the long run. Staying is misery for the BS when they can't/don't want R and it is ridiculous to ask someone who has given up SO MUCH to keep sacrificing because their WS doesn't want a D.

I have been one of your wife's biggest supporters.

But, as someone pointed out, all we see are words. You see action. And,if the words aren't matching up with her actions, then are the only one who can determine if her remorse is real.

I respect that this is a deal breaker for you. I support your decision. You seem very clear headed. This is what you need to heal, and that's all that matters.

Well . . . I guess I'll leave you alone. Best of luck to you.

Something that has been mentioned in this thread is that even if the WS is doing everything right, is fully remorseful, quickly jumped on board and all in genuinely the BS is not obligated to R. It's mentioned in this thread but not often and seems to be overlooked. The decision is entirely the BS's to make. If it is a deal breaker it's a deal breaker.

This is so true. I lived through exactly this. Still living it today as she is still pursuing me years after our divorce. Part of it is the pottery barn you broke it you own it, part of it is she is desperate for our family to be together, and I’m sure she still loves me

But all that doesn’t matter. What she did was a dealbreaker for me. It just took a long time for me to acknowledge it.

What she did was despicable. Playing house and involving your child. If you can’t live with it, that’s her problem brought on by her actions.

This is your life. If you feel one day you would like to try, try. If you want to bail, bail. You are driving the boat

You are the one living this. You can see and feel best what she is doing. Lots of WS come here and write what their BS wants to hear They in turn get other bs to be their advocates

This place is great if you use it as a guide. It’s not a firm set of directions. That is the value here

Neanderthal,

You know what you can and can't live with. Eventually, you will get sick of this holding pattern and either jump back into your relationship or decide to leave. If the latter, just know that divorce isn't the end of the world. It'll get worse before it gets better, but when it gets better, hold onto your butts, because it's pretty good.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread but the topic title caught my eye because I too feel like I lost my best friend.

You said your marriage wasn't that great..I actually thought mine was. Yes hills and valleys but the hills were way higher than the valleys.

I tried the pick me dance. I tried waiting for her to wake up from the "fog". There have been a few good things to come out of this though.

I have developed a deeper relationship with our adopted daughter. I have come face to face with some of my demons and some of my short comings. I have learned to control my anger because if I didn't I would be in jail by now for smashing the AP's face in. And I have been trying to adapt the Alanon's The Three C's ( I didn't cause this, I can't control it, and I can't cure it). I still haven't mastered it but I believed her when she told me this was my fault so I felt like I was the cause. I thought I could control it by changing everything my wife told me that made her unhappy and by showing her how much I loved her. And I really thought I could "cure" it by just reminding her of how happy we were before the fog came in to cloud things.

But they are right the pick me dance never works. I think it had the opposite effect. When I finally got proof that she really was having a physical affair and had lied to me and got pissed at me every time I brought it up I should've just been flat out done. But she begged me and said she loved me and pretended to come back and be done with the AP. But at that point she was staying in her own apartment just so she could figure herself out so she had free reign to do whatever without me knowing. The first time I found out that she was still continuing with it, again I SHOULD have just filed. I couldn't bring myself to do it though and I will always be disappointed in myself for that.

Neanderthal, did your WW ever provide you with a very detailed timeline that allowed (or would allow you) to compare her A related feelings and activities to what was happening at the same time in your marriage? I hope you did, even if you chose not to read it.

I don't think I have seen it discussed on either thread, but did sexual and non-sexual intimacy tank during the A? You obvious got signals that things weren't right and I am wondering if she was pre-occupied, distracted and distant (thinking of and meeting with POS) or if she was actively withdrawing from you (giving clear preference to intimacy with POS)

She's got 400 level skills in Blame Shifting and Minimizing and now apparently moving on up in her Conditionally Unconditional desire to do ANYTHING to keep you two together. The unwillingness to turn over the phone would be another nail in an already sealed casket for me.

Sorry to ask this odd question, but was her weight way up during the time you explored swinging? I'm trying to get inside her mindset.

She did give me a timeline. It wasn't accurate, and she added to it on the spot while we were discussing it. I don't believe it either.

Our sexual intimacy had been lacking for some time, IMO anyways. It did seem to be worse during the affair. She would only initiate it once and a while. Yes, she was distracted and distant. She told me multiple times that she had low sex drive. HA, not low enough to keep her hands off him.

Her weight has always been a problem in HER mind. She gained the most weight during pregnancy and afterwards. I considered her fit during the swinging times. She was probably close to her heaviest when we initially started dating. So obviously her weight wasn't a big factor to me.

But.... I did say some mean shit years ago when I was drinking. I spent the first 4 years trying to build her self esteem up. Obviously I failed. Eventually she wore me down, I even gave in to her getting a boob job. I knew it wouldn't help her confidence, but I got tired of it and gave in.

Thank you everyone. If you support my decision or not, I value your opinion. Even yours Smoked. I'm sorry I lashed out at you. I happen to be going through some stuff right now, and my emotions aren't as well balanced as they should be.

I've pretty much went grey rock. I moved into the spare bedroom, and only come out to be around my daughter. Usually we go outside though.

I've been researching apartments, even though I'm still a ways away from that happening. I'm also working on splitting the bills. She can have her own car insurance and phone bill.

Losing this house, our home. That's really hurting me. I wish there was another way, but it is what it is.

Neanderthal - Hope you are doing better. You seemed really set off the last time you came and posted. I bet you read your wife's thread and freaked a little.

If divorce is what you are going for, I get it. I will say, the whole compliment thing, cut your WW some slack. She had a lot of stupid people contest that was even a good idea. F4cking idiots telling her, pursuing you like a piece of meat was a bad idea. I think it was close to what I told her to do.

So, let's get to what is really pissing you off out here. You told her to come to this forum to learn some humility. See the impacts. Make the right moves. We are giving her advice and you are mad when she follows it. Are you tracking? Maybe explore that a little in IC. I think this is part of the resentment issue all us BS have. That turd sandwich, fing sucks. If I missed the mark, can you tell us what triggered you earlier on the posting? Free IC right there.

I am not going to tell you to not divorce, but maybe see how you went from mad, to sad, to emotional about loss, and back to mad. That is the roller coaster. Can we help with that? Not really either. We can tell you, right now, get the papers in hand. They are your rip cord/safety net. Try the whole being married thing still and stay civil. Guess what, divorces take a year, and this civil time will be how you remember your marriage ended. Why not enjoy it a little?

Write out what will trigger the divorce and put that with the initiation papers in an envelope. I have mine hidden in the closet.

Now, to why we like your WW which is going to piss you off me just typing this. Your WW has lied, but way less than most. Go read some of the other newer WW. You will want to throw up. You are only using half of this site. Read the WS and figure out where your WW sits in that spectrum. Also, read some of the Divorce and Reconciliation sites. It will give you an idea of what things look like later. Your WW listens to our posts and seems to be floundering, like you noticed to do anything and everything to self preserve. She is drowning after jumping off the boat. You are driving the boat and deciding if you drive away with it or try to help her. It is her fault she dove off, so why do you have to help her? Exactly. It isn't logical. You are watching and trying to figure out why part of you wants to offer your hand and part of you wants to pull away so your daughter in the boat too, doesn't see this. Maybe chew on the analogy a little. Today I am really full of those.

PS - I also think your wife isn't telling the whole truth, but if you are this mad, why would she? It is an awesome thing to get, but read some other threads. Even if you get the whole truth, you still never trust them again. So the whole truth is not as useful as you think. Is it going to make you feel better in any particular way? Nope. Dig in deep, grab that anger rock. You will hold it because it keeps you safe. When you put it down, the sadness rock which is bigger and spikey comes back. That is when you look for that anger rock again.

Good luck.

Divorce her and dont look back. Wish you strenth to overcome all this.

So, let's get to what is really pissing you off out here. You told her to come to this forum to learn some humility. See the impacts. Make the right moves. We are giving her advice and you are mad when she follows it. Are you tracking? Maybe explore that a little in IC. I think this is part of the resentment issue all us BS have. That turd sandwich, fing sucks. If I missed the mark, can you tell us what triggered you earlier on the posting? Free IC right there.

You cant be serious. Yes, she's following the easy advice. Like giving me a bogus compliment. But the hard stuff, the stuff that matters. Like being honest with me, not being selfish, she's not doing that. She's not listening to that advice.

What triggered me was another poster reminding me of how fucked up I am for my past behavior. I have a lot of guilt over it, and it sets me off.

Ill explain some more triggers later on....

Guess what, divorces take a year, and this civil time will be how you remember your marriage ended. Why not enjoy it a little?

If she agrees to the terms, it could be done in as little as 10 days in Oklahoma. I will remember my marriage based on our failures. Not a couple months of civility.

Now, to why we like your WW which is going to piss you off me just typing this. Your WW has lied, but way less than most. Go read some of the other newer WW. You will want to throw up. You are only using half of this site. Read the WS and figure out where your WW sits in that spectrum.

Back to triggers that piss me off. Assumptions from internet strangers. I've read damn near every post made on the forum over the last few months. In every section, WW, divorce, separation, new beginnings. I stated it before, I research to death before making a decision. That includes using this very site to its full potential.

Another trigger. I do not compare how many times your wife forked someone else, or what some Waywards put there betrayed spouses through. This isn't a dick measuring contest. Who had it the worst. We have all been forked over. You only can understand your own private hell. Lemme put it this way. If I cut your right hand off. The next day when you wake up, would be grateful I didn't cut off your left hand??? Fork no, you would grieve the loss of your right hand. So please stop telling me how grateful I should be or how much better I got it.

If you like my wife so much, PM her and date her. Obviously she's available. Also you should look into why you like damaged unsafe partners so much. Free IC right there.

PS - I also think your wife isn't telling the whole truth, but if you are this mad, why would she?

Doinbetter, this is what you told my WW. Don't do what most WS do and wait until you feel safe before you drop another bombshell

I have no interest in making her life easy so she can open up like a flower for me. Fork that!

FWIW, I've been exceptionally cordial with her. Beside a few very short bursts of anger, I've been down right pleasant. Hell I was even selfless during sex.

I get it guys I'm entering in the anger stage. I'm lashing out at internet strangers. But isn't that better then bottling it up or taking it out on her? I thought I could vent, show emotion, be forking human here. Some of you are more than willing to offer your opinion, but the same posters get offended when I challenge them. Why is that?

I don't believe in the take what you need and leave the rest. I will take what I need and question the rest. Especially if I think it's B/S.

Maybe I've gotten everything I can from JFO, or all I'm willing to get. Everyone seems to have the line drawn in the sand, including myself.

A BS is going to be hurt and angry. That is NO reason for her to not be completely honest. That is not your fault.

And it doesn't matter that other cheating wives are worse. This is your WS, and it is the worst for you.

Don't allow anyone to blame you for her choice to cheat, or her choice to lie. She is completely responsible for her actions.

It is ok that this is a deal breaker. Don't let anyone guilt you into waiting,and giving her a chance, when you know you are done.

I agree with Hellfire. Opinions are like assholes...everyone has them and most of them stink.

Neanderthal, I'm with you, brother.

I'll be 100% honest. The fact that people are getting snowed by your WW and then coming into your thread, YOUR SAFE SPACE, and telling you how lucky you are....

Fuck. That.

Until she hands the phone over for the recovery to be run, she's not a candidate for R. Even then she might still not be. Only YOU would know at that time.

Until she hands the phone over for the recovery to be run, she's not a candidate for R. Even then she might still not be. Only YOU would know at that time.

Has she refused to do this? There is no excuse for that if she has other than hiding additional lies. If she says she's sparing your feelings that's BS. I don't think you can be hurt more than you already have.

Well there's another one of those bullshit, idiot suggestions that the poor little thing who ripped your heart out can only tell the truth if you're really nice and cordial to her.

She can fuck another man, lie to your face and potentially give you an STD but you need to have empathy so she will tell you the truth. She's supposed to be falling all over herself trying to repair what she's done if she has any intention of R.

I can't remember the last time that a BW was advised to make nice with her WH so he will feel safe to actually be honest. Maybe someone can help me out with that.

Man, she must a good writer. It’s been awhile since a WW has gotten so many people to white knight for her. And to do it on her BH’s thread no less.

If she applies herself she could make some money on Instagram. There are always orbiters willing to donate.

I don't know that I have much to offer, but I wanted to be an encouraging voice. I'm another who's not particularly convinced by your WW. I was actually talking to a friend about your situation and told her it all seemed a little too easy. Too easy to "get it", too easy to say the right things, too easy to do the right things. To me, if it were truly that easy for her to snap out of it and devote herself to your marriage then why didn't she get it sooner? Why didn't she get it back when you tried to talk to her? The fact that she's hiding phone messages is just more of a confirmation to me.

People need to do the right thing because it's the right thing, not because they're seeking something, whether that's mitigated damages or forgiveness. We put a lot of pressure on people to forgive being wronged, and I want to say it's okay not to. I feel like a lot of people have been pushing you to R or tossing blame your way because she seems to be the perfect candidate or because your marriage was less than perfect. They're wrong. R is not owed to her no matter how perfect a candidate she (seems to be) is or whatever mistakes were made in the past.

It's not your fault. And you don't owe her anything.

I wish I could give you more than encouragement. I'm very sorry that you and your daughter are going through this. I'm sorry for the pain you're in. It will get better in time. Whatever you decide, it's okay. Don't let anyone, including myself, tell you what's best for you. I hope you'll continue posting and are able to gain support. I wish you the absolute best.

Infidelity is a deal-breaker for some people. And it's not wrong to feel that way. No cheater is owed a second chance. They know fully well when they make the decision to cheat what the price might be... and they do it anyway.

Typically, when we see a BS decide they're done and ready to move on with divorce, they're sad that it's come to that, but also filled with a sense of relief that the decision is behind them and the path beneath their feet is beginning to feel firm again. Would you say that describes you yet? I ask because you've seemed very emotionally divided before now. What's changed if anything? Can you be sure that your course hasn't been influenced by the anger stage?

You've said you're a pretty good researcher, so I'm sure you're aware of the pitfalls of emotionally-driven choices. Infidelity is still new to you though, the feelings are new, and as someone who's already been through all those stages and come out on the other side... the anger stage is not the best headspace to be in when you're making life-altering decisions. If I'm honest, the grip it had on me was actually a little scary at the time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to influence a choice. Every cheater who gets divorced for their adultery deserves that particular consequence. But this is YOUR thread about YOU, and it's important that you're okay with your choices. If you're good, then I'm sure you'll get some great tips and support from the Separation/Divorce forum.

Strength to you.