SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Oral to her is only "messing around".

Not even as bad as "messing around". To her it was only "fooling around."

Sexual acts during the daytime at a busy gas station.

Wow, how romantic. He must have women falling at his feet.

The biggest crock of shit is saying she wasn’t ‘truly’ in love with him. It wasn’t the ass licking. Cheaters are selfish and when challenged, such as on D-Day, they (usually) snap immediately into self-preservation mode. She could love him more but without an exit plan mapped out a selfish person has only one choice. It may have not been an exit affair per say but eventually they would have had a ‘future plans’ discussion.

Also ‘sex only once’ needs to stop. It’s minimizing. 1. Sexual encounters are sex and 2. Is the fact that N found them out before they could have more ‘real’ sex supposed to be reassuring? The woman would stop by on her way home from work to blow him, whatever point she is trying to make about the amount of sex is just ridiculous.

She needs to stop lying to herself first. She’s not going to be a safe partner for anyone, much less N, for a very long time unless she starts getting some professional help. I hope that she does.

The woman would stop by on her way home from work to blow him.

Sexual acts during the daytime at busy gas stations.

And this is what the men on this thread call “true love”?

My husband, when talking of his affair, said on many occasions that “he prostituted himself”. Is that “true love”?True love is healthy, holy, pure, fulfilling, light, principled. I don’t see any such thing in what Neanderthal’s wife experienced.

Hey N,

I nearly cried reading your last post, you sound so very broken & tired.

I genuinely hope you & your DD managed to get some much needed R & R from this shit storm your going through this past weekend,

Take time to heal,

Strength & Hugs to you N

Please do not bring quotes or thoughts from his WW’s thread here for discussion.

ON TOPIC: Respect the original posters' intent and avoid threadjacking. Feel free to start new topics to discuss general subject matter in other threads, but do not refer to specific topics or threads outside of their original location.

Bigger, if your still listening. I was working through some of your amazing 5 year plan posts. I was trying to start implementing them. I was ready for the multi year shit show commitment.

I’m still here… Reading and wondering if the crowd has already lined up the path towards the cliff…

The problem with my idealistic 5-year plan is that BOTH parties have to be on board. Otherwise it’s sort of like the left hand deciding to clap without the participation of the right hand. It’s not something you can decide to follow unless she does so too. It requires commitment from BOTH.

Unfortunately, I don’t get a sense that your wife is there yet. She is her own worst enemy. Or even if she is, then maybe she’s been drawing the truth so long you don’t get the sense that you have the truth. In order for my suggestion to work she needs to give that detailed no holds barred timeline and you need to believe you have a good-enough timeline to at least start the journey.

In my post I stated:

Learning NOW that the WS and the AP had sexed a gazillion times will cause less damage than learning of a kiss 5-6 months into R.

And it does sound like that statement is coming into fruition now.

IMHO it boils down to three factors:

Is your WW willing to be this forthcoming?

Has the trickle-truth completely wrecked you?

Is there a way for you to believe your wife when and/or if she claims to have shared the truth?

I think you BOTH need a dose of reality and BOTH need to look realistically at what you are facing.

The worst outcome of this is neither divorce or reconciliation.

The ABSOLUTE worst outcome for everyone involved is a miserable marriage dealing with the effects of infidelity. With no true love, respect, mutual support, a unified plan for parenting… An environment where you show your kids exactly how a marriage should NOT be. Keep in mind that it’s been shown repeatedly that how parents interact tends to guide kids on how they should interact with their spouse…

IF you reconcile you need some basics. Like the truth. But also constant and steady work. In the plan I suggested I even suggest constant evaluation so you can decide if you are making progress or not. A decision to R does NOT eliminate the possibility of D…

If you D then skip all this drama about living in the same house, she forfeiting all her rights (or you…), not seeing the kids and all that. No – if you TRULLY want to D then chances are you won’t remarry her. Assets and debt will be fairly divided. There will be a change in lifestyle, social group, family…

Be realistic. D is not an alternative marriage. If you D you strive to be good co-parents. Something you are not when you send your kids mixed signals like “mom and dad aren’t married but still take us to Disney together, spend Thanksgiving together...”. Realize that eventually she will start dating, as will you. And not each other.

We have discussed the sense of calm I mentioned earlier in PM’s. I still sense you don’t have that.

Can I end this with one suggestion?

Tell your wife this: You two read my original post. There is plenty that could be fixed in it or be different. But read it and grasp the content. Is this something you two would be willing to do?

Promise her that NO MATTER what she shares NOW you will still give R a shot. As stated in that post there are no guarantees and there is constant result-evaluation.

But make it clear that what you have NOW is not sustainable and will only end in misery.

Hi Neanderthal, Thanks for checking in. Hello.....

I'm sorry you've had to experience the soul-crush of your wife's recent trickle truth. In some ways, I'm also happy for you that you know more than you did a week ago. As painful as it is (and it really really is), you deserve that.

I experienced something similar a few months after D-Day. We had gone away for the weekend to 'celebrate' or at least honor our anniversary. Despite the circumstances, we had a reasonably good time. Lots of long meaningful talks and shared vulnerability, and he wrote me this long letter pouring out his feelings (not generally his strong suit), and when we got back, I felt, for the first time since D-Day that maybe we were going to make it. I let myself have hope. Then shortly after we got back (I think it may have been the same week), I was cross-examining him about something in the timeline that seemed a little off and he divulged a semi-major (to me) detail in the timeline (not when the affair began, but when the first line was crossed - this mattered to me because it occurred right before our wedding ). It sent me into a bit of a tailspin (the timing of it was obviously very painful for me), but mostly I felt calm or even relieved. Finally, it seemed to make the rest of the story make sense. It felt like my husband truly understood the gravity of his actions, and was being honest with me, even at his own expense. He understood how important the truth was to me, and finally it felt like I had total honesty. It was a set-back, but I felt like we could overcome it. I felt like I could finally start to trust him again.

Over the next few days, I called OBS and shared the new detail with him (we had kept the lines of communication open). He shared a new detail with me - something tiny - something that in the grand scheme of things, meant NOTHING. I was livid. I called my husband to confront him. He admitted the detail, blurted out 3 more new details. He had a list - a freaking list (!!!!!), of things he'd lied about or left out - ready to go. Again, all of it was insignificant in the grand scheme of things. That was all - he promised again. This time for real.

I....lost..my.... damn... mind - like I went seriously ballistic. I left work in the middle of the day (just left - didn't tell anyone). I barely remember what happened next. My husband eventually found me in a fucking field in the middle of the city, doing laps and crying to myself. I made a gigantic scene. I yelled and screamed and told him not to come home. We were done.... I meant it too. For the first time since D-Day, I was ready to give up. I could apparently handle the big shit but I couldn't handle the small lies.

After the initial rage mellowed over the next day or two, I settled into feeling numb. I was defeated.... totally broken. For the first time, post-D-Day, I no longer cared. I felt numb. Previously, I had felt like if we kept moving in the right direction together, if he kept proving himself to me, I had the strength, to dig deep and fight for us. Now I no longer cared.

Eventually, I let him come home. I was so ashamed that I wasn't even strong enough to enforce my own boundaries. So when you say you feel broken, like you're not strong enough to fight it anymore. I know exactly what you're feeling. This shame - this brokenness, was quite possibly the most difficult thing for me to recover from following D-Day, because it felt like *I* was compromising a core value. His affair had already broken my self-esteem at the time, and now it felt like I was agreeing that I deserved less.

I'm not sharing this because I want to talk about myself (and I'm sorry if it comes off that way). I don't have any specific advice or suggestions on how to get through it. I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I don't know how similar our stories really are, but I see a lot of myself in the way you seem to process/respond to it.

In the grand scheme of things and as close to the edge as it pushed me, I actually think that the trickle truth that I received was pretty minimal compared to some people here. It's one of the only reasons I think we were able to survive and heal.

I'm interested, now that you've had a little time to process some of this - do you now feel like you have the whole story?

Neanderthal, I don't know what your reasoning was for letting her keep her phone all this time, but I think that choice eliminated any chance you had of knowing for sure how far her plans and activities went with the POS AP. The continued use of her device along with the likelihood of her employing readily available methods of destroying the deleted information has assured that the device will not yield anything. I hope I am wrong because you deserve every bit of truth you seek, you always have.

If you're moving toward an attempt at R then the polygraph is a must and your questions should be selected very, very carefully.

If you have binding post nups available I would strongly suggest pursuing that with not only future actions included, but also certain revelations about her past behavior.

And because of how she has handled the time since the first D-day I think filing for D even if you are still hoping for R at some point might be the only to get her to show her true colors. I am sorry for all the suffering you are having to endure.

Neanderthal, how are you doing?

Neanderthal, just checking in to see how you're doing.

I've also been wondering, what is your perception of your wife's defensiveness. Obviously she has posted on here (that is no secret) and so some people have formed impressions of her that have inevitably (and unfortunately) colored their perception of you, but outside of all that I'm wondering how you think she is handling things right now. I note you rarely talk about that and I think it would be useful for us to hear about your perception of how she's handling things. So often we see here that it is not the affair that ends up being the dealbreaker for a BS, but the WS's behavior after the fact.

In the past you have mentioned that you do not trust her and that you do not believe she is being truthful or forthcoming. You've also mentioned that you worry she is manipulating you or trying to manipulate you. Is she taking ownership of things or does she minimize and get defensive? Is she being proactive in reading/attending IC/doing other things you require to make herself a safe spouse? Have you set requirements/demands on what you expect for her? Is she meeting those requirements? Is she still blaming you? I appreciate that you may not wish to post on here as you know she is reading....

Has the trickle-truth completely wrecked you?

I'm not sure. i'll let you know after the next round of it.

Neanderthal, I don't know what your reasoning was for letting her keep her phone all this time, but I think that choice eliminated any chance you had of knowing

I have a nearly identical phone as my WW. A couple weeks after Dday I downloaded, installed and paid for multiple phone recovery methods. None of them had any luck on my phone. I consider myself tech savvy, so I didn't expect to get anything from her phone. The eye opening part for me was how she ignored Si posters about that subject. Obviously she was protecting herself and not becoming a safe spouse. She would have given me the phone at anytime, had I asked. Knowing I wouldn't find anything, I was just hoping she would have offered or tried herself.

After that I did do some snooping on her phone, with her knowledge. Google history, photo gallery, etc. I did find things she forgot to delete. When I questioned her about them, she was honest and admitted some things she hadn't told me about.

Polygraph will happen sooner or later. Life has gotten in the way, and affair/marriage problems have taken a partial back burner. Legit problems, so please don't accuse me of rug sweeping.

Butforthegrace and emergent8,

Thanks for continuing to check up on me. As for your questions E8....

My wife's defensiveness is hard to watch. It's a coping mechanism for her I suppose. Obviously not a healthy one. In person I am much more cognizant of it. Its almost like a change of character. We can be discussing something, and as soon as it doesn't jive with her view, she changes. Different facial expressions, tone, body language, etc. Now I call her out on it, and ask her why she's becoming defensive. Currently I am willing to do that, but I don't know for how long. If she doesn't show some serious improvement in that area, R won't be possible.

I do believe she was trying to manipulate me, but not purposefully. I don't know if that makes sense, but she had her story. Lying to SI was a requirement to continue lying to me. Again that's self protection. That's not letting go of the outcome, and being honest. Without honesty, R won't be possible.

Do I think I have the whole story. Probably not, But currently I don't care. Me caring is what has helped her destroy me. So If she ever does offer me total honesty, i'll be grateful and then i'll decide if I want to proceed with R.

If she continues to lie and I find out about it(via polygraph, PI, etc), then we will divorce. R won't be an option.

She is reading SI and going to IC. She tells me where she is and what she's doing. She seems to be putting more effort into her students and classroom.

She hasn't really blamed me. She may have used me for an excuse for her actions early on, but she hasn't done that in a while.

What makes a safe spouse? Other than time and consistent effort. I suppose she's acting like a safe spouse. But is she? only time will tell.

Early on I was intending on using divorce as a tool. A tool to force her honesty. A tool to force her reality. A tool to hurt her, or punish her. I no longer intend to do that. If I divorce, its because I choose to for my own benefit. If I divorce its because infidelity is a deal breaker. If I divorce, its because I know we are done for good. There will be no reconciliation after divorce. It will be a very final act, and we will just know each other as co-parents from then on out.

As I said earlier, more concerning issues have reared there ugly head. So my wife's infidelity must take a seat for now.

Early on I was intending on using divorce as a tool. A tool to force her honesty. A tool to force her reality. A tool to hurt her, or punish her. I no longer intend to do that.

I concur 100%. Divorce should never be used as a gambit. Doing so is trying to control the outcome, which is the wrong approach. Divorce should be filed because you want to divorce.

Hey Neanderthal -

Was just thinking about you today - hope you're doing OK in all things.

I know you don't need any more reminders of this but there are so many of us in your position. At this point I'm 17 mos post D-Day. My wife TT'd with me for over a month and hid a year-long affair with dozens of encounters. It was horrible. I remember the feelings. I know how you must be feeling. Ultimately I saw my wife's behavior as being driven as much by self-loathing as by deceit and delusion. Is it the same for your wife? Maybe. Maybe not.

We've made a lot of strides - it's an unpredictable road but you may as well. The only thing to do is put one foot in front of the other, take one day at a time. Other than taking drastic steps there's not much else you can do. Hang in there brother. Many people are pulling for you.

Hey brother,

Are you okay?

I have read all of your and your WW posts, you have had a crap run. Does read like your WW is manipulative, but you know her best. One day at a time, look after the little one.

Take serious time for the other issues but make time for you.

Talk, communicate don’t shut down, channel you anger to things like exercise, walking, IC etc. But make time for WW and make her make, you feel safe. It is about you and your Child.

All posts here are from experience and offer assistance for you. Good luck and take care.

One day at a time

Since the last trickle truth about 12 days ago, I've been on auto pilot. Nothing but the bare minimum. No exercise, barely making it through work, no patience with my little one. Just surviving, with little to no emotion.

Early yesterday my mom passed away. It wasn't a surprise, but it happened faster than expected. I was not there as I should have been. I waited most of the day before I told my WW. I didn't see the point. She can't help me, and honestly she probably doesn't care. She didn't care when I was away putting my mom in Hospice care earlier in the year. She was too busy with her affair partner.

I'm angry, because I can't mourn the loss of my mom. I barely even cried. Add that to the list of things Infidelity has taken from me.

Holy shit brother... losing a parent on top of infidelity? I could barely deal with losing my Dad 9 years ago and he wasn’t close to an ideal father. One of the things that helped me get through it was meeting my future WW about a month after he died, looking back what a joke that ended up being. Stay strong and reach out to anyone you can here or in real life if you need it. It’s horribly unfair to have to deal with losing your mom on top of this.

[This message edited by Hallmack at 7:58 AM, September 30th (Monday)]

I'm very sorry for your loss. Even if it's not a surprise lost of a parent is a very traumatic experience. Please accept a warm hug from across the globe.

I am so sorry for your loss. That's terrible.

I lost my mom last year and I know how hard it is. I remember not crying at first. It really didn't hit me until all of the family/funeral stuff was over, so I am sure it will come, and you should try and let it. It's important to grieve. I would say 1.5 years later, I am still grieving. I still miss having her support.

I am so very sorry you're going through this.

I have a nearly identical phone as my WW. A couple weeks after Dday I downloaded, installed and paid for multiple phone recovery methods. None of them had any luck on my phone. I consider myself tech savvy,

What kind of phone do you have?

Are the data recovery apps scams?