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This is why I always recommend the BS interview the MC prior to the first meeting. A bad MC, which is what you are dealing with, will do far more harm than no MC.

Your WW has painted herself as the victim..to MC..and your daughters.

I wouldn't even bother going for the passwords anymore. I'd get a VAR, turn it on, and sit down and have a chat with your WW. Talk about the misleading things she said to the kids. Talk about the hotel room. Once you have her on tape admitting these things, you will have no need for the passwords. If you have decided to D..but want proof of WHY you are divorcing to show your daughters, it'd be a lot easier to just VAR a conversation with your wife.

You aren't going to get the passwords, regardless. You know that by now.

Horrible MC. Don't believe a word she says. Have you prepared your phrases for the next session?

if, if I was this torn up about what hasn't even happened yet in a casual, undefined more-than-friends thing ; how would I feel if she actually developed feelings for some other man

But your ww hasn't given you the facts. She says its "borderline unethical". What ethical standard is she using? What facts is she applying to that standard? Because you don't know what the facts are. She hasn't told you what they were.

You are in an unfortunate position: the MC knows all of the facts and you don't.

I would respond first by suggesting that communication with another man for a romantic purpose is NOT borderline under any standard you would adopt. Imagine, for a second, you are standing on the alter at your marriage. Would either of you agreed with the idea that what your wife has done is "borderline".

Is the MC suggesting anything that your WW needs of has done?

I did not know what she just said. It's like my brain froze. I said, wait a sec, say that again. She said that "trial separations almost always lead to divorce." The longer we stayed separated, the more we would grow apart and my wife could give up hope and move on. It happens all the time. She said a separation is only encouraging this end result and is that the end result I am anticipating? She said I could most definitely end up standing on the sidelines feeling like a piece of crap. And I would have to bear the brunt of the blame because WW is doing her part to fix this. It seemed to me that somehow, she was blaming me for this whole mess. She strongly encouraged me to take her advice before things escalate and WW truly begans to despise me.

DoneGone, I haven't chimed in much lately but I have been reading and following. As the others have said, this MC sucks. Goes without saying. But my first reaction to these statements by MC was a bit different/off. Yes, I think MC is putting the blame on you, but I think there is more there. It's like she's implying that she knows more of what's going on with your wife than you do. Well no shit Sherlock and that's the point. You don't know wtf your WW was/is thinking because she won't give you the fucking pieces. To me I'm hearing that MC is telling you that your WW already has plans in her her head for plan B. So maybe you are plan A, but to me MC is implying there is a plan B that will happen if you don't do what your WW wants. If your WW really wanted to fix this relationship, there would be any other fucking plan B.

I could be off on that, but that's what my gut is telling me. Obviously you don't have the full story, neither does MC most likely, but MC clearly has other pieces of the story you don't and that just as fucked up as the rest of it.

Damn I'm fucking pissed off for you. Fuck this MC!!!

yop

When you think about your daughters you can hope that if they ever get cheated on, that they will have the self respect to divorce if the alternative is to continue in a marriage in which they lose too much of themselves.

Statiscally at least one of your daughters will face the same situation that you are now in.

I did not know what she just said. It's like my brain froze.

That is because your MC didnt say a damn thing that is relevant. Nothing but double talk BS.

Circular nonsense. Tell him to stop with they hypothetical crap and get to the point. And the point is an affair and lying. And until the entire truth is out on the table, stop with the nonsense and what if stuff.

I think you need to give How to Help Your Spouse Heal from An Affair to the MC and tell her she needs to read it and look at it from your POV. That your wife did have an affair (not a supposed) and that she chose the consequences when she stepped out of the relationship and she is not a victim. Then let her know that the only victims here are your daughters. Then tell her you are not a victim but the betrayed and that she should worry about you despising her not her despising you.

DG,

They are playing you and you are very submissive. I get it, all you want is the passwords and this why you are not giving a dam about what is going on. However, it is not sure what they are preparing for you yet. For this reason you need to be prepared the next session as it will be crucial. The thing that will happen or probably they are thinking about it, is that the MC will say that you are not ready to have the passwords yet or it will be imposed by your wife. I believe that all what they are doing is that hiding the truth and ending up with less damaged breakup. Your wife already knows that the passwords means divorce. So why should she expose her dirty laundry as it will result the same.

You need to prepare for the next MC as it could be your last if she does not give the passwords. If I was you, I will prepare my points on peace of paper and keep the whole session to corner your wife.

As far as accepting her apology. State that she had an A. Things are going to be hard and rough and to deal with it just like you have to deal with it and swallow her apology. That is the consequence, the WS emotional roller coaster. That you don't get to run around have fun at the expense of others and think that one should just bend over and accept an apology and everything will be all right. That she has to earn/show the apology and forgiveness and she isn't doing anything to earn it. Then ask her how you are supposed to build on a new M without honesty from the start. All you want is full transparency and the right to decide on what forgive her for.

No more sessions with this MC.

Find a new one ASAP.

She already taken you WW's side.

And I would have to bear the brunt of the blame because WW is doing her part to fix this

Ummmm, she broke it. Sometimes, all the kings horses and all the kings men....

before things escalate and WW truly begans to despise me.

So she engaged in her behaviors because she was irritated?

I get why you're going to MC. However, this one is an idiot.

redsox13

What ethical standard is she using?

I do have a couple answers for that. I think it might be more of a difference in terminology. The word 'snapped' for instance. I used the word first but she latched onto it. MC, "Have you snapped when discussing marital issues with WW?" My answer, "No, but I was bent so far out of shape it's a wonder I didn't snap."

MC, "Ok, so you didn’t snap. Did you also ‘not snap’ when you trashed a certain motel room in which you were a guest." My reply, "That’s when I discovered my wife was also in a MOTEL ROOM too, but not MY motel room and not with ME! “So, you snapped because she was in a motel room?” "Not really, I snapped because she was supposed to be at Walmart shopping."

There is also a confusion of the word 'friend.' MC, "Did you also ‘snap’ when you confronted and initiated a physical altercation with a long-time family friend of your wife’s family?" My reply, "You mean 'friend' as in 'friend with benefits, or do you mean friend as a buddy, like in fuck buddy?"

hopefulmother

That you don't get to run around have fun at the expense of others and think that one should just bend over and accept an apology and everything will be all right. That she has to earn/show the apology and forgiveness and she isn't doing anything to earn

I think the apology is expected from me. MC wondered if I had considered the fact that me spending 12 hours a day on the job might be a contributing factor. Couple that with the fact that the children were all gone and she was feeling useless and was it not a fact that her "friendship" began around that time. Maybe she was feeling lonely, left behind, no longer needed; therefore vulnerable.

Then I made a big mistake. I tried to make it about me. Apparently, this is not about me. I mentioned that those 12 hrs I was away from home each day I was making money and bringing every penny of it back to WW and our family. I explained that I am putting three kids through college and almost every waking moment I am concerned with finances; either making money or how to get my hands on more money.

Bingo! Problem solved. At a time of great vulnerability in WW life, I was obsessing over money and neglecting my hurting wife. Basically, in so many words, I have been a defective husband. I am thinking, is it actually possible that my wife remembered to tell the counselor all this shit but failed to mention the vacations, weekend escapes, date nights, special times we were arranging together? Had my WW not informed this person of our goal of doing three pleasurable things together every single day? So much for “Happy wife, happy life.”

[This message edited by DoneGone at 6:43 PM, May 7th (Thursday)]

"Venerable" as in respected matron? Or has auto spell check put the wrong replacement for vulnerable?

Neglected? How about bored and restless?

Women have a hunger romantic excitement. A husband of two decades is seldom a mysterious lover. How could he be?

Anyway the MC will be history in a week's time.

I think the apology is expected from me. MC wondered if I had considered the fact that me spending 12 hours a day on the job might be a contributing factor. Couple that with the fact that the children were all gone and she was feeling useless and was it not a fact that her "friendship" began around that time. Maybe she was feeling lonely, left behind, no longer needed; therefore venerable.

DG, this MC is toxic. She is trying to convince you that you are the sole person responsible for little WW's affair. You work too much, your kids are gone (to university which costs a fortune) and your wife feels useless. These are the real reasons for her affair. Screwing some other guy made poor little WW forget that you worked 12 hours a day, that her daughters were gone from the nest and it somehow made her feel useful.

WW has really fed MC a manure spreader full of BS. MC comes out with the same info that her family and friends were telling you. My recommendation is go to the next MC appointment, go through the motions, collect the passwords and go for IT. Find all the information and get an IT guy to retrieve all the deleted info. Remember KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.

Just so you know, the email that she sent you about your anger was written by her counselor. The three meeting idea was the counselors. And when she doesn't give you the passwords after the third meeting due to 'danger to yourself' that will be due to the counselor. And your daughters will buy it.

The game to play here is to go to your most vocal daughter and voice concern this marriage counselor is incompetent. She'll offer concern. Maneuver to have her select a new one because 'she is truly impartial and knows you both best'.

You first visit with this counselor, the new one, will be your third aggregate visit.

Checkmate

And I would have to bear the brunt of the blame because WW is doing her part to fix this.

Except the part about being totally transparent and honest. Holding the truth hostage, when you have made it clear it is the most important part of your healing process, is the complete opposite of doing her part.

She strongly encouraged me to take her advice before things escalate and WW truly begans to despise me.

It's amazing to me the people who are allowed to practice MC. She should be laying the groundwork for how you move forward after getting access to the truth, not working to convince you to give up your goal.

Why isn't the MC encouraging your wife to give you access to everything and live with the truth out there, "before things escalate and YOU begin to despise HER"?

I hope you get the access you desire and soon. I hope she doesn't put you through all this for nothing.

Oh my god!!!!!

Is there such a thing as "dis-barring" a therapist?

This whole situation smacks of collusion/manipulation/bias.

I am so angry for you.

Keep strong, DG.

You are NOT wrong/crazy/out of control.

Bro, I know what they are doing.

She is not going to give you the passwords, MC is focusing on your anger and reactions, for one sole reason.

By third session your wife is going to claim you are a unstable monster file, and with the help of the therapist (yes they can if they feel some one may get hurt) have a paper trail. To get an RO (resteainin order) so you won't be able to not only dispute her, but hacking her technology would violate that.

All the things you are being called out for, mark my words when it is all said and done she is going to come out of this looking like Sally Field in not without my daughter. She already has been laying the ground work.... The therapist is blatantly calling you out on "snapping" and "outbursts."

Your wife has painted a very different picture to the therapist of what is happening.

You are going to find your self playing defense with no defensive line soon.

By the time you "try" to crack device it will be too late.... I would almost bet the 3 sessions was to buy time, and lay ground work. The therapist may have suggested more time....

The issue to them is not about infidelity but of an insecure jealous, controlling, temperamental husband who is always on the edge of snapping.....

And her going to Guy friends was just a "cry for help."

I have told you before and I will say it again..... Crack devices, exposé her to your daughters. And file for divorce....

One more session is what will deal nail on coffin.... After all after three counseling sessions you only became more volatile and paranoid..... Your wife has genuine reason to fear you getting a protective order and/or restraining order will be super easy...... She already convinced your daughter, friends, family, and the therapist.

The Authorties will be super easy especially with all the character witnesses now.

You are digging your own grave

Good luck

Also it's not hypothetical the MC may have inadvertently given away that it was a full blown affair.

How?

They are trying to work why you can't prove as are unsure of against you....

She said hypothetically that it was only a friend and look how yor acting , imagine if your wife had crossed the line how you would have acted.

What she was saying was look how he is acting now that he can't prove and is unsure of it, imagine when he finds out and knows and has rock solid evidence.

In her dialogue to you she was warning your WW

That "if" you get the proof it will be a shit storm..

Let me show you something:

I have made a living in communication, if I want to knows something I don't ask it, I let them tell me.

Example:

In regards to your kids

"How old are your little ones now?"

You respond:

"Jane is 3, Tom 4, and little JT just turned 1, he has me up all night, the little rascal"

I asked you their ages,

You told me:

Ages

Names

Number of children

Sex of the children

I do this for a living in insurance and financial services so I know what products and service(s) to offer.

People pay me money to consult their sales force on this stuff..

I would make ALOT commission in you.

Take my advice on this one.