SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yeah I'm sure this reads as much as it has sucked.

I assure you I'm not making me needs small. Also, I think you'll find many WSs never find their way to basic human decency. Not trying to call it a huge win, but it is more than nothing.

You can’t set the bar that low and then be surprised to find yourself in Hell.

I am not living in hell, though I had been.

My WW has taken a much more remorseful stance and is being more open about the A and the aftermath. We had a long, very calm and open talk about it last night, that just started with her asking, "Are we actually doing better?" She talked about her roadblocks in being a better wife after the A, and that she is overcoming them. These weren't new subjects by any means, but the method we approached them with was much different. My WW was really taking ownership of her failings after the A and during recovery before.

I know that I've thought before that we had similar breakthroughs a few times. I also told her I feel like Charlie Brown and that she is Lucy with the football. I said we haven't gotten to the part where I try to kick the football yet, and that I'm sick and tired of her pulling it away and me falling on my ass.

She seems truly remorseful, and has been taking additional actions to be kind, loving, considerate, and appreciative. I know it's really only been one month after a year of meh, but that's my update for today.

My WW is applying to a job that would be a good fit and a significant pay increase. We'll see how that goes. Maybe fWW is the label in the near future...

Fww? Yes - after 3 yrs of continuous self improvement and I hope thats how it works out . I think its fair to warn you though that this particular incident may or may not be a one time thing the world is full of relapsers.

You are in a good place at this moment which is great but if suggest that you should remain vigilant and dont stop enforcing boundaries or advocating for your own needs.

Thanks for the note siracha.

After the last year and few months I'm quite aware that things could easily fall backwards again. She could do something monumentally stupid and ruin the whole thing. It wouldn't be the first time that happened to a BS. I'm *cautiously* optimistic.

I don't remember but are the two of you in an open marriage? It seems like you are moving into a comfortable business arrangement kind of marriage, sans romance and affection. I have heard it can be done. Royals do it a lot.

I don't remember but are the two of you in an open marriage? It seems like you are moving into a comfortable business arrangement kind of marriage, sans romance and affection. I have heard it can be done. Royals do it a lot.

We are not in an open marriage, never have been in an open marriage, no one has asked or proposed an open marriage.

It was headed toward a sort of "business arrangement" sort of thing prior to me asking for a divorce in November. My material comfort was well taken care of, but emotionally I was not really content. It has been moving closer to the marriage I want since laying out the wants and needs in writing.

I love my wife a lot and I think she is making good changes.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 3:21 PM, February 8th (Monday)]

Okay thanks for the clarification. I'm too damn lazy to go back for a refresher. I'm glad the marriage is moving towards a more traditional loving one. Is that what you want at this point, or are you burned out on all the hassle trying to get her to come back around?

I absolutely was burned out and done. So I asked for a divorce (captured earlier in the thread). Instead we just took a week away from each other to think things over. We set goals, wants, needs (written out and agreed to). She then came to accept her role in leading the healing process. She has made dramatic improvements in her behavior. I haven't felt like I've been dragging her along since then, which I had felt for the year prior to that. She is putting in the effort, and it's noticeable. Yes, it would have been way nicer to not go through all the shit and for her to just "get it" sooner.

I understand not wanting to go back and read the whole thing.

I should probably put my story in my profile at this point. I was concerned that my WW had found the site and might identify my profile and threads, which I did not want to have happen.

Assuming she actually gets the new job (we shall see), I will probably stop updating this thread and maybe move over to the R forum. The grand upshot and answer to this thread is that I cannot stay in an M without R. Maybe some people can, but I can't.

But see... again, she never makes a move unless you take her right to the edge. She sits there like a lump, doing nothing to heal or rebuild the marriage that she broke, and then when you finally go for divorce, all of a sudden she gets motivated.

Dude she is never going to put forth the work to make herself into a whole person, or to help you heal. She just is not going to do it. She is lazy, selfish and unmotivated to change. Why should she change when you keep caving every time she moves an inch just to get you off her back? She is never going to do more than what you demand of her. Stop doing this.

When you threaten her with something, either follow through with it or stop making threats. She's got your number. She knows all she has to do is whimper and move an inch and you will immediately back off.

[This message edited by Westway at 8:23 AM, February 9th (Tuesday)]

But see... again, she never makes a move unless you take her right to the edge. She sits there like a lump, doing nothing to heal or rebuild the marriage that she broke, and then when you finally go for divorce, all of a sudden she gets motivated.

Dude she is never going to put forth the work to make herself into a whole person, or to help you heal. She just is not going to do it. She is lazy, selfish and unmotivated to change. Why should she change when you keep caving every time she moves an inch just to get you off her back? She is never going to do more than what you demand of her. Stop doing this.

She is putting forth effort in IC, MC, and is doing much better at reading books to help repair the M. Yes, it took asking for D to motivate her to do this. Christmas gift debacle aside she has improved massively.

So, it simply is not the case right now that she isn't making a move and is sitting there like a lump. She is doing more than I demanded, and is moving toward fulfilling many of my wants.

When you threaten her with something, either follow through with it or stop making threats. She's got your number. She knows all she has to do is whimper and move an inch and you will immediately back off.

I did follow through and have been following through since asking for the D. I didn't cave on my needs or wants. I didn't back off and she hasn't asked me to back off on any needs or pushed on any of the boundaries I set. We have a path to R that is viable, and we are currently on it. It isn't just whimpering and giving me an inch.

It took more time and effort for these things to sink in with her than I would have liked, but I am not dragging her along anymore. If she would have just done this from the get go it absolutely been better.

Just to be super clear, that I had to put a lot of effort into getting her where she is now is not a dealbreaker for me. It just isn't. What matters is how she is behaving now, which is a lot better. What matters is she is looking at getting a new job (and applying). What matters is that she is doing this herself. That she is using my wants and needs as a bookmark to read or re-read post-affair help books. That she gives me affirmations of love during the day. That she no longer gets defensive when I'm upset or bring up anxiety related to infidelity and provides me with reassurances.

I am happy with the direction of things. Soon I expect to be genuinely happy with the state of things.

I know a lot of people go through this and end up in false R or betrayed again. I know that this path isn't without risk, but I don't feel unsafe like I did before. Even the most ideal path to R is absolutely shitty. D is also shitty.

I'm not comparing, but it's important to say that I can accept and forgive my WW's actions. They were not deal breaking in and of themselves. What drove me to asking for a D was how she was behaving in the aftermath. She has apparently fixed that behavior, hopefully permanently.

When recovery is non-linear, it can appear you are stuck in a cycle without progress. When you are at the top, maybe you feel good like I do now. Maybe I go back to the bottom and want a D again. This does make the whole thing very challenging. Maybe things will actually move forward. I think they are.

ThisIs,

Be vigilant if your WW is going for new job.

What I've observed in life and on here is that a Serial Cheating OM make a move almost immediately when a new woman is hired.

So many threads start with "my W started a new job....."

I see this at churches too ugh!

Once this preacher attached to some charity school in a low income city was eyeing my W lecherously even before the third party introduced them. It even creeped out my W who is usually blind to such things.

I appreciate the advice, but I also think it's illustrative that no single change is necessarily going to help with recovery.

I mean, the whole idea is a job change is good because AP is a coworker. But now, what, she changes and I become MORE vigilant that she could start a new affair? Seems backwards, yet the worry makes sense.

That's why everything else surrounding the actions, the change in attitude, and her ability to own her actions really matter in addition to the actions.

An unsafe partner will remain unsafe no matter how they change their surroundings. It's the change within them that makes them go from unsafe to safe.

ThisIs,

On the other hand her getting a new job could be a good test to see if she is going to cheat 10 or 20 years from now when you have less life left and less ability to leave the marriage.

I mean, the whole idea is a job change is good because AP is a coworker. But now, what, she changes and I become MORE vigilant that she could start a new affair? Seems backwards, yet the worry makes sense.

I'd be more concerned with the current OM. She changes jobs and you really think he won't be able to reach her. This MF asked her out possibly with you sitting in the next room. He has no concern about you. As someone said, she has put you through hell over this OM and only has changed her tune when you start the exit strategy.

I doubt she will go looking for a new affair. But if she switches jobs over this one, my bet is you are going to get big time pushback if you don't give her free reign to make friends with the new co workers, and that probably means happy hours and get togethers where you have no idea who is there.

If she stays in the current job, you said you had some plan for if they travel together. Other than you calling her room phone in the hotel instead of her cell phone, and the facetime left on all night, I have no clue how you will have any idea how much time she spends with OM if he is at the meeting and in same hotel without a polygraph test.

She has fought and clung to contact with this for over a year. I would not take him off your radar.

TISF, the work of her becoming a safe partner shouldn’t end because she has a new job. If she ever tries to throw in your face “hey, I got a new job for you” any time you’re upset or need transparency, then you know you’re back at square 1.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 12:39 PM, February 10th (Wednesday)]

I'm not comparing, but it's important to say that I can accept and forgive my WW's actions. They were not deal breaking in and of themselves. What drove me to asking for a D was how she was behaving in the aftermath. She has apparently fixed that behavior, hopefully permanently.

You are a better man than me. I couldn't do it.

Just a short update since I haven't posted in my thread in about a week.

My WW is in the final round of interviews for the new job this week.

We had a nice Valentine's day, we exchanged cards (she made hers by hand, I wrote her a poem) and small gifts. We went out for an early dinner at a nice restaurant. We talked a lot, and she wondered, "Will it ever be like it was before".

I told her, "No, I don't think it will. It's different now, and stronger in some ways. Harder in others. We are on our way to making things better, but it will always be different."

She agreed with this and apologized again for her A.

That night I told my wife to pick out a romance or rom-com. We watched "Sliding Doors" which is a pretty awful movie about affairs. My WW kept asking, "Is this OK? Are you OK watching this. I was a teenager when I watched it and it didn't really kick in that this was about an affair."

I said, "No it's fine, let's watch it." It really wasn't so bad to watch (from a triggering standpoint), except when the dude that is cheating on her is like, "I made a mistake!" Then I told her, "Yeah, that's a bit of a trigger there." The guy's friend that he confides in at the bar is pretty great though, "You can't have a moral dilemma! You are in a morality free zone." Well, we made it through that movie and talked about her A a little bit but didn't have a fight. She didn't get defensive and she apologized again and thanked me for my patience and grace.

I think that a lot of what happened on Valentine's day would have resulted in a massive blow up just a couple months ago because of my WW's general defensiveness and escalation when confronted. Instead we just talked things out, and my WW was empathetic and contrite. I feel much safer in my M than any time since DDay.

I'm hopeful (look out for the hopium...) about the future.

Excellent progress! Its a marathon not a sprint but you have had some really good weeks in a row and i am glad for you both