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Hi craig2001

I have seen texts from her girlfriends about tonight. And nothing from the OM. But obviously I took the point about misdirection. Quite possible though she can't claim she's not clear on the consequences if she were to see him again.

Not impossible to follow her tonight though completely impossible to sit across the street all night, with my boy in tow.

We had a bit of a row this afternoon (I should have been at work). Basically just because of her pig-headedness. I heard it all again - there's no WAY she's changing phone number or not being allowed to go out etc etc.

This is not the woman I married!!!!!!! Where has she gone?!?!?!?!?

The thought had also crossed my mind that it's great for her she can have a night out with the girls. Unbelievable - though nothing surprises me any more.

I haven't left her the letter as yet. I'm seriously considering leaving it out tomorrow then going to stay in a hotel Saturday night. Phone off. I'd tell her I was safe and not to bother me. I'd stay out until late Sunday. Think that might be the best way - as things stand, we'd just argue when she read my demands over transparency etc.

Everything else you say is bang-on. Though I don't quite get the last bit about her dropping the earlier A on me in a public place - ?

Hi Badhurt

Yes, absolutely to a bar. Or a restaurant first I think. She does have work in the morning (7am) though. The OM lives 20 miles away - not the same town but easily within reach.

I can't drive myself mad with this stuff though. What can I do tonight other than sit at home, playing mind movies and going slowly insane??? I can't chain her to the front door.

Quite possible though she can't claim she's not clear on the consequences if she were to see him again.

Consequences do not matter to her, not in the least. If they did, you wouldn't still be dealing with this in this manner. The pull of the affair might be too strong for consequences to matter or like most WW's, she will deal with the consequences later on, if she is even caught.

there's no WAY she's changing phone number or not being allowed to go out etc etc.

She is not serious in the least bit about being married or she is completely become selfish and self-centered. She has not done one single thing you have asked her to do as far as I know.

Why should you stay in a motel, though it does sound like you need a breather from her arguing.

The bottom line here is that she has now had 2 affairs and she is not willing to deal with either of them. She is not listening to you, she is not showing any kind of remorse in any way.

To go out and leave you home babysitting is the very last thing a woman who is serious about R would do.

Though I don't quite get the last bit about her dropping the earlier A on me in a public place - ?

I thought she told you about her affair 2-3 years ago for the first time while you were all at a club. And then you went out for a walk and it was never mentioned again.

Hey craig, she is absolutely uncommitted to R, that is plain to see.

As for the public place thing, you must be thinking of something I said but it wasn't about this. The earlier A I discovered through snooping at texts and my WW confessed (once caught) in our bedroom one morning.

Saveus

Are these other women married or single. ? I wish I could be more optimistic but again Craig has this correct. She basically is telling you to issue all the ultimatums you want to all the boundaries you want to, and that she will pay no attention to any of it.

She is having affairs, staying in your house like it is her personal hotel, and just basically living like she is single.

So tonight, you will be at home, she will be partying and you will be hoping that she shoes up at home or does not go off with other guy or someone new she meets.

I feel for you but honestly don't know how you can live like this.

But I am not you so only you can be you.

Picture yourself on the playground being punched by the bully but you keep telling him there will be consequences if he does not stop bit never hit him back. That is what is occurring here.

The only thing that is going to have any chance to get her attention is D papers, and at this point I am not sure if that will work but you are out of options.

I sincerely hope for your sake you get up the courage to do what you need to do. Tonight she will be partying with a bunch of woman who are probably aware of her antics and have no respect for you and you will be suffering and miserable. It hurts me just thinking about what you will be feeling but I would not take it. You have to act and act now!

Badhurt, it's Friday evening. There's not much I can do until Monday morning. I would say I've seen her latest texts and there is no evidence any of these friends know anything. Bizarrely (or not), my WW doesn't seem to want to tell anyone, not even her best friend (one of the girls going out tonight). I also don't think she's in the market for some new OM though she is no doubt pining for the last one. I completely agree though, nothing will now get through to her. I need to - for my own sake - leave her with that boundaries letter for 24 hours (cutting myself completely off) before I go see my solicitor again. Filing prior to that - her last chance to see the light - would feel wrong.

Saveus

Please do not LEAVE YOUR home. She may not even come home. And don't write her anything other than please sign these papers. The demands you write are meaningless to her and if you tell her how much you love her and want to R anywhere in this letter you are being the victim again and weakness is getting you nowhere.

Forget this 180 stuff. You need direct action WITH consequences, not threats.

P.S. I believe friends are a mix of married and single though at least one of them I don't know.

I have NO INTENTION of EVER leaving my home. I have done nothing wrong. Staying in a hotel tomorrow night would be quite different. I just think I have to do something this weekend before potentially filing early next week. Not that I honestly believe anything I now do will have the slightest bearing on my WW.

Would it be helpful if I posted my letter here tonight?

my WW doesn't seem to want to tell anyone, not even her best friend (one of the girls going out tonight).

What about the girl friend that she used to park her car in the driveway and was really at the OM's all night. That gf knew and knows. Will she be there tonight?

I am sorry to say this, but you can write a million letters and they will not matter to her. The easiest way for you to know if they matter or not is when she changes her phone number.

She doesn't even have the decency to do that, because either she loves watching you squirm in misery or she loves reading the texts from the OM.

Does your wife even give you a time she expects to be home tonight? Can you just happen to call her on her phone and see if she answers it and how she sounds?

If you want you can post your letter here.

Saveus

If it will be helpful to you to get feedback then post it. I did not mean I thought you were permanently leaving home. You not being there when she reads the letter will make it easier for her to just brush it off which she is going to do. Whatever you are saying in the letter, if it is tough and meaningful to the point where it might be believable, would be much more effective of you looked her square in the eye and said the same thing.

She is going to take it that you did not have the courage to put it on the table for her right to her face.

You should have the divorce papers in your back pocket , and when you get the same bull shit reaction you can enjoy her look of amazement when she gets the shock of her life.

Bullies never stop pushing until they get bloodied. That's what you need to be doing.

Saveus, I get wanting to giver her a letter, I really do, I was the queen of them early on. It was very cathartic to me to get the feelings out on paper, unfortunately for us the foggy WS is just going too scribble on the page, just as they hear blah blah blah from us when we speak.

If you do make her a letter of boundaries and consequences, make it free of emotion, and very to the point. Make if very clear that you have allowed her to disrespect you and cause you pain up to this point because you were so broken hearted, then let her know that you will no longer be allowed to be abused, and treated in such a way.

BUT DO NOT GIVE IT TO HER IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO FOLLOW THROUGH..... You have given your lists, your boundaries, and demands for weeks now, and and waffled every time. Your words, mean nothing to her now. It's just like when you train a dog. If you never follow through on a command to come, sit, stay, that dog won't pay any attention to you or your voice, but when you follow through, and reward good behavior, and punish bad, and are consistent, that dog will always listen to you.

I would encourage you to give it to her face to face. I would also encourage you to have the D papers in hand as well. Show her you are ready. You are done. It may be your only hope.

Your WW is carrying on in her own sweet world and believes she has control. By refusing to do the smaller things, she is testing the balance in the marriage. And right now, she has everything and treating you with utter contempt.

There's not much I can do until Monday morning.

You can start to separate everything out. Fivide up the house as if she were merely a lodger (which she is). She can doss on the sofa or you can buy/beg/borrow a put-u-up and she can sleep there. Put a lock on the bedroom door having put her stuff elsewhere. This is what divorce will look like. Give her the letter and tell her to piss off for the weekend. Leave a voice mail or send an email to your solicitor asking to make an appt asap.

Your letter should be succinct and without emotion. Bullet points and consequences (there is only one.....) When you give it to her put your solicitor’s details at the bottom so she can give them to her solicitor. When she says she doesn’t have one, tell her tough shit – she’d better find one before she’s left just with the clothes she stands in. Get mean.

Bizarrely (or not), my WW doesn't seem to want to tell anyone, not even her best friend (one of the girls going out tonight).

Tell them. And say you are giving them the information so that they don’t unwittingly enable her affair by allowing her to use them as cover.

I need to - for my own sake - leave her with that boundaries letter for 24 hours (cutting myself completely off)

I think she should go and sit in an Ibis budget and contemplate her future. If you are paying for anything in her name, stop. If you have anything in your name (car, credit card, etc) take it back. Let her support herself completely.

see my solicitor again. Filing prior to that - her last chance to see the light - would feel wrong.

You keep moving the line back, saveus. We have all told you that she can stop the divorce process at any time. And she can. That shouldn't stop you from moving forward. All she has to do is comply with your not unreasonable demands. And she has to WANT to do it and she has to WANT the marriage and she has to WANT to reconcile with you. She is pushing your buttons.

I understand your reluctance, but you are not giving her any consequences. None. She has done nothing other than say she is not replying to OM. Why won’t she change her number? There is no reason on this planet why she would want to keep it if the affair is over. I wish I had taken WH’s sim and snapped it in half. I admit there was some strange fascination that MOW was sending so many pathetic, pleading texts and weepy VMs. WH kept saying that “everyone” knew his number and he needed it for business as well as for personal – which is all a load of bollocks. It was important to him that MOW was still in love with him, he needed her to feel the affair wasn’t pointless, he needed his adoring audience. We’ve all heard of sportsmen who can’t cope without being in the limelight any longer – that’s how it is when you cut off the AP, there are adjustments to be made and to accept you are not this shining star in someone’s eyes anymore. But while she keeps that door ajar….. she is keeping her options open. (Sorry, that turned into an essay)

There are many, many women out there who would give their eye teeth for a bloke like you. There is more than one person in this world for you. She is treating you like crap and she will continue to do so while you allow yourself to be the soft touch. I’m not saying to rush into divorce, just get everything started. Divorce is the consequence of her fucking around and treating you with such disrespect.

Your son will be very aware that something is badly wrong in your relationship. All his senses will be on high alert and he will look to both of you for reassurance. He will be alright as long as his normal routine stays intact.

Use this weekend to declutter your house and your mind. And to detach from her.

@craig2001: The 'girlfriend' whose driveway my WW made use of the night she walked out on me will not be there tonight. In any case, I believe my WW has cancelled (more on this later). She is not really a friend of either of us, more an acquaintance through the sports club our son attends.

As for letters, I completely agree, and that's why I never sent that one I penned a couple of weeks in. My WW has never seen it.

No, I never get an expected time for my WW's return. I'm quite used to going to bed, not sleeping brilliantly and waking to find she's there or she's not (she always has been, to be fair - irony of ironies).

@Badhurt: I get your point but I felt/feel my disappearing for the one and only night of our entire marriage would drive the point home even better. Face to face she will evade, deny, refuse etc etc and we'll end up in an argument, which will get me nowhere. I wanted her to sit at home and stew (though that might be expecting way too much).

I had the same thought about divorce papers but that would probably delay my plan of action by a few days.

@tushnurse: There probably is a bit of emotion I ought to extract from my letter, but it is pretty to the point. As for following through, I absolutely intend to if I give it to her. I haven't really given my WW any boundaries over the last six or seven weeks. I thought that was precisely my problem.

I will certainly re-consider how I deliver the message. But staying around for an argument, either way, is only going to send my WW in one direction.

@UKgirl: My WW is due in any moment so I'll come back to you ASAP...

I felt/feel my disappearing for the one and only night of our entire marriage would drive the point home even better.

If you leave for the night, be prepared for it to be brought up again and against you.

Remember the night you left all night long, etc, etc.

There is no arguing with someone who refuses to even be honest with themselves.

Thanks craig2001. Yes this was worrying me even though I wouldn't be 'leaving'.

You're spot on about arguing... Had a thoroughly frustrating evening (she didn't go out). Nothing and I mean NOTHING could get through to her right now.

Got to keep my resolve until Monday morning.

Why didn't she go out?

Change of plans always made me suspicious. Something like did the OM have to cancel, is what I would think.

What exactly are you trying to get through to her at this time.

@UKgirl: Contempt is the word. Funnily enough I used it myself it that letter I wrote (but have a feeling won't ever be sent, like the first one) to describe my WW's attitude to the GIFT of R I had offered her.

I struggle with the idea of anything which will upset my son's routine, e.g. dividing the house up. I get it - he'd get over it and he'll have to get used to it if and when we get divorced. But I don't see why I would do anything right now to put him (any more) smack bang in the middle of all this mess. An example: last night I removed all photos from our wedding day. This morning I put them all back, before my DS came downstairs.

I will however consider emailing my solicitor/the CAB. The plan is definitely to see one of them (probably the CAB first) early next week. And - weirdly - my WW seems very disturbed at the idea of me going to a solicitor.

I may take a fresh look at my letter this morning, remove 2/3rds of it (especially anything remotely emotional) and consider emailing it to my WW. Last night's discussions (she didn't go out) led precisely nowhere - again. Just to a whole heap load of frustration (on my part).

UKgirl, I don't mean to be moving the line back. I always said I felt I had to list out my boundaries, which I still haven't done.

She IS clear on the one and only consequence of her actions now. Though whether that would stop her, I am far from certain. And I don't think she believes I would enforce this (as none of you do) 'just' on the basis of her replying to/contacting the OM.

She is just IMPOSSIBLE... I can't tell you.

I know I'm a soft touch and I'm letting her treat me this badly. I AM prepared to get D started but I confess to some holes in my knowledge - when do I get charged? How, in increments? What is the first thing that happens after I instruct the solicitor? It seems I didn't get all my answers, after all.

I agree with you 100% - there is NO REASON my WW should be reading her AP's lovestruck texts and emails. She may be keeping the door ajar - then again, I have become more and more convinced that HE would now settle for it all exploding in some way so that he and her could act like a normal couple in public, yet I see no sign that my WW wants the same.

I'm quite convinced now that she doesn't.

But in the meantime, she's undeniably treating me with incredible cruelty and lack of remorse, and I'm sitting here taking it.

Just don't think it will be forever. I'm not even seven weeks in. I couldn't have divorced her on Day 1, not in a million years (though that's not what I would have said had you asked me 12 months ago). I've done things the only way I know how. I need to live with myself and so far, so good.

@craig2001: I don't actually believe my WW was ever seeing the OM last night - though I confess it's a possibility. She cancelled due to her bad mood and our lack of finances, but mainly her mood.

She thought I was calling my solicitor yesterday afternoon and that really seemed to bother her. She thought I was going to work but instead I went to a favourite pub and sat there with a pint and a plate of chips, reading SI I also used the time to consider my next move - the letter (which I doubt I'll ever send, at least in its current format), the solicitor/CAB, starting D.

She text me a load of emotional blackmail along the lines of worrying about our son/should she (and he) come home last night, etc etc. All designed to make me reply.

I'm not going anywhere tonight now, by the way. I don't see why I should and, what's more, I take the point about it being used against me. I don't think I've EVER stayed out of the marital home overnight - without my wife, anyway - and I don't think I should start now.

One minor detail about our (frustrating/pointless) discussion last night (forced again by me)... At one point she claimed she couldn't see a future for us as she couldn't see how she could trust ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then she got all jealous and possessive this morning when I was PMing back a board member here - like I'm the one with secrets (I even told her what I was doing)!!!!

What kind of crazy world is she living in?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

Saveus

You cannot argue with a crazy woman.

You cannot reason with a crazy woman.

You cannot have a loving, healthy marriage with a crazy woman.

Do not let her turn her issues back onto you.

Get your wife to a good psychologist.

She needs one.

HM