SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Great response Walloped - and you're right - take a break from the negative --- it's a VERY good thing to do at this point.

Walloped, you are moving. Not every move will be the right one, and only you (and your wife) can determine that.

The two of you were the only ones in the room during your discussion. So, guess what? You determine the interpretation of the events.

You determine each step to take. Each step is connected to the one before it. Just keep stepping.

A new answer will come each day.

i think i might agree with eric.

i do feel sad for your wife, but it's hard for me to get over the fact that she fell in love with POS. I do understand and believe that it was never her intent to leave you. But I think, and I think you think, that if you hadn't discovered this, it would have continued. And as even your wife said, there's a possibility that she would have left.

I really do applaud her for her honesty. I think she is being as honest as she can. She probably doesn't know why she did what she did, etc. But it appears that she's trying to be completely honest. Granted, all humans naturally see things through their own filter, and I think there's always a degree of self protection in there somewhere too. We tend to believe our own lies if it puts us in a slightly better light.

I guess my problem is the depth of her affair. She walked hand in hand with him in public. She bought him fine gifts. She wore tawdry clothes for him. Did any sex act he wanted for him. She told him she loved him repeatedly. She said she would have had sex in your house if he wanted to. She admitted she would have continued if she hadn't been caught. And then, when you insisted on NC and told her it was a deal-breaker, she still called him. I understand it. She was lied to and made a fool of. I think i recall that I even posted that she would be greatly tempted to break NC. But still, when everything was on the line, it mattered more to her to find out whether he was simply using her, or if his affection for her was real. Honest? Yes. But still horrible. bad stuff.

But then I think, that's basically what anybody does when they have an affair. They say I love you. They try to please their lover. They do things as if only they and their AP exist. The rest of the world doesn't matter.

I think ultimately I don't really feel badly for her. She brought this on herself. I admit that I can be a vindictive person. It's a fault. But I would be tempted to make her get back the cuff-links. They were given and accepted under false pretenses. But i think I would do it, more to punish her, than to punish him. And i know that's probably not the way to act. And I don't think I would be done punishing the two of them. I like what you did by exposing him, but I still might think up some more bad things. wasted emotion? wasted effort? beneath you and beneath me? You bet. still.... but I guess I don't really recommend it.

But I really feel badly for you. You seem to be a really good guy. A quality human. You have a big heart and you're forgiving, and you try to do the right thing. And the shit sandwich she's handed to you is a bad one.

In the end, I guess I agree with her. She doesn't deserve to be forgiven. But YOU deserve to be happy. So that is my advice. Do what will make YOU happy. If that means staying with her, then take your time about it, but find a way to do it. That doesn't mean you're weak. it doesn't mean you're strong. it means you're weighing the alternatives and choosing to do what you want. Live with integrity, but do what you want. She broke the marriage contract. You now get to decide what you want.

good luck friend

Walloped,

Take this post as a philosophical one...

You know the things that you need and, for some things, you think that you know the things you need. No doubt that sometimes you'll be wrong and sometimes you'll be right. That's just the nature of being human. Some of the things that you need will hurt and some of the things that you need will not.

In the R forum they talk sometimes about taking a break from dealing with the A and the R. Not too early into R, but later. There is a need to reconnect about other things.

Yes, our wife does need to own the A. Regret is almost instant, selfishness has been rampant and isn't as easily unlearned. Repentance may take a while. The stages of grief/loss are real and must be worked through. There's a lot of loss on both sides here and so there's a lot to work through.

I've never done the R thing, no one took up my offers.

You told your WW what you wanted and needed. Your WW complied with your request. She didn't spit in your face. She didn't walk out. She listened and when her time to share came she shared.

I think that you did well. I think that she responded well, too.

Communication is key. You're right about that. Truth, openness, vulnerability - all so important. Whether you two stay together or whether you part being open about what each wants will make things much easier.

Good luck, Walloped. Have a fistbump }{

Walloped, I also offer a tap to Biggers HALF FULL glass. If my count is right, Mrs W has been to 19 intense workbook sessions (6 weeks) with her therapist to find out what BROKE inside of her. MC can begin to build a safe framework for more communication & discovery. You are right. A break from the triage unit of JFO and on to the other forums may be just what the doctor ordered. I applaud both of you on your courage yesterday and our prayers again this week for shared empathy and healing.

I so agree with Cajun123 - It doesn't matter what we here at SI think about your choice. YOU have to live with it. We will support you through to the end regardless.Quote from nekrob on another forum.

That which does not kill you makes you strong.

[This message edited by susieque2 at 7:44 PM, October 4th (Sunday)]

Does every single conversation we have must begin with her owning her affair? Is it...

Me: honey, what's for dinner?

Her: Spaghetti & Meatballs

Me: Whore! You didn't own your affair! Don't try to rug sweep it with talk of food!

Is her "correct" answer supposed to be...

Her: I am so sorry I hurt you and caused you this pain and betrayed all that is good and holy in the world and nothing you did contributed to it as it was all my fault as I am such a low, heartless bitch who was just looking for a little excitement on the side and wholly took advantage of your good nature and trust, who incidentally happens to be making Spaghetti & Meatballs for dinner.

Is that how every conversation is supposed to go?

I'm being an asshole but I'm also asking seriously. Is that what is supposed to happen? Because I don't get that.

I need to take a break from here for a bit...

I wasn't suggesting that she put it on repeat. However in this situation it was ostensibly to discuss the affair so then yes it is pretty critical that she have an understanding of it.

Are you going to make a decision based on facts or a decision based on platitudes delivered to you so that you feel better about it for the next 24 hours?

Listen man I'm truly not trying to give you a hard time, but it's truly in both of your best interests to avoid saying shit to make each other feel better.

If you want we can roll over and let Reconcile At All Costs team roll in here and all you'll be is stuck five years from now wondering what the hell happened to you. Now is the time to squash that wondering by dealing with things unabashedly direct.

I still think of this as a matter of Mrs W being broken and being a long way from understanding the nature of the breakage much less how to fix it. I don't think it's realistic to expect more from her at this point than what she's shown W so far. This is, in Churchill's words, the end of the beginning, and it's a long way to the end, or even to the beginning of the end.

i agree Foley. I don't think there's anything else she could be doing at this point. She's doing the best she can, and I don't say that lightly.

Does every single conversation we have must begin with her owning her affair?

Yes. You must see this happen every single minute of every single day. Attitude and LOVE. You have been married to her for a long time, you don't need to hear her say it. But you have to see it every minute of every day in her attitude, tone, loving actions to you.

She should be "stepping it up" to all things. She should be going above and beyond. Example: I used to wake up and make a cup of coffee for myself. I never expected my wife to do it for me, never asked, and maybe she would if she wasn't otherwise busy. In the six months to a year during the aftermath, she went out of her way to get me a cup of coffee, stopped what she was busy involved with to make sure I was getting it as I walked in the room. That was one of her ways of saying "I'm sorry, I won't ever take you for granted again, I love you and appreciate you every minute of every day." I think my wife had taken me for granted.

This is the way she can tell you that every single conversation. I think this is important in the first six months. That's me looking back after 3 years, this is what my wife helped. She told me every single conversation, even though there were not actual verbal words. It's not the same level now, but I still feel that 3 plus years later.

I don't understand, Eric and Rambler. As someone with a WF who hasn't done the one really remorseful thing (told me the entire truth as I asked for it to avoid further stress and pain from TT), I think Mrs. W has shown a great deal of remorse (per the infidelity definitions). She sat and told W some unbelievably difficult answers to his questions (yes, I know, she did those things, so she should have told him - I get it, but it doesn't make it easy for her to say, and to have him hear). She agreed to a poly, which she passed. She has accepted W's need for space. Unless i am missing something, she has not tried to blame shift and has admitted fault and seemingly (from the stance of an internet stranger) has wholeheartedly apologized.

I truly respect your POVs and I really want to know why you are seeing regret where I am seeing remorse? What am I missing?

Remorse is how your actions impacted someone else. Regret is how your actions have impacted you. Remorse is a FWW thought process while regret is a WW thought process.

There are elements of remorse however, everything appears later move to a regret.

I am not looking at one thing but a few.

Continued contact after d day tends to a problem. She had multiple contacts including a 21 minute call.

She was told if she broke NC it would be a deal breaker, yet she did it. Of course they were no consequences for her doing it.

Leaving W never was practical without giving up the kids. She found out in her call that she was no more than a toy for OM.

Any relationship can be fixed but you need to deal with the hard issues.

My questions to her would have been.

1) You kept telling me that the A was more. More passion, more better. How do you settle for less going on? Why do I want to settle for less too?

2) You were able to totally forget me for 5 months, how do we get that back?

3) You were warned not to break NC and you did. Getting your answers was more important than me and your M. It was more important than your family. Why? What if the answer was different?

4) That you for telling me your feelings but let's face it, you only feel this way because you were caught. If my brother had not seen you, you will still be seeing him three days a week. How do we reconcile that?

Walloped,

I think it sounds like your talk went really well. I'd plan on a big fat emotional hangover tomorrow if I were you.

For those that are poo-pooing the talk/progress, I guess I don't know what it is you are expecting Mrs. Walloped to do. Sure she has regret, but I also see remorse, and I think to expect them not to be all tangled as shit together at this point is unrealistic.

Stay on course Walloped. You're doing fine.

t understand, Eric and Rambler. As someone with a WF who hasn't done the one really remorseful thing (told me the entire truth as I asked for it to avoid further stress and pain from TT), I think Mrs. W has shown a great deal of remorse (per the infidelity definitions

Well I never said the session wasn't positive, but the part the I disagree with is that she is showing true remorse. She is still saying things to either save her hide or to not hurt W's feelings.

I'm not saying that she won't show full remorse, or intentionally, it's just that these things tend to take some time and they are not there yet. The talk was good because it moves the needle, of course.

Rambler gets to the heart of most of that with his for questions above.

My fifth question would be

5. You keep saying that you didn't love him but actions show otherwise. You were increasing the frequency of intimacy and continued the relationship with their heightened risk of your sister having an idea of what was going on. How is this reconciled?

Walloped

I‘m going to (mis)use a prerogative I sometimes assume I have based on having hung around on SI for quite some time and having a number of posts under my belt. Having given that forewarning then it’s only fair to add that I’m only one voice here and my advice is as valid – or invalid – as the next posters.

One of the best things about SI is that there is no agenda. There is no methodology being pushed, no one-pill solution. What you have here is a combination of posters that base their recommendations on personal experience and accumulated experience from reading and guiding others. Our advice can be biased to one path rather than another, one goal rather than another. The good thing about this is that we very often manage to find a vein that the BS accepts. This can give the BS an initial life-line but as we manage to pull him closer he might see other lines, other options.

We might think OUR advice is the most logical and most likely to succeed. We might be vocal about it because we might think other options presented are less likely to succeed. But at the end of the day the BS grabs one and is pulled to safety. Or not…

On SI the JFO forum is the Emergency Room / Intensive Care Unit. We posters the triage and first responder personnel. You come here and our job is to stop the flow of blood, make sure vital organs are safe and functioning and to get you through the initial trauma. We tend to you till your vital signs are stable. We aren’t concerned about setting broken bones or about scars. We aren’t about rehabilitation. We are 100% first responders and stabilizers.

Just like in an ER/ICU our goal has to be to get you to the stage you can seek specific treatment. That’s when you move from ER/ICU to the burn ward, the cancer ward or whatever other ward you go to that offers specific treatment to your problems.

I think we here on JFO have done our job.

I think it’s time you move on for more specific solution-based treatment.

I think sticking around in ER / ICU / JFO would risk that the broken bones we didn’t set (because they weren’t life threatening at time of arrival) start causing an infection.

So long Walloped, and thanks for all the fish.

See you in another forum…

Eric wants to push to get it all out. To get to "rock bottom," so to speak, so that healing can begin from a completely truthful place. I like that.

Maybe she did "fall in love." Affairs are a fantasy bubble. They aren't real. As soon as the bubble burst, real life comes crashing in. She never had intention of leaving Walloped. Does that make it worse, that she was cake eating and not in an exit affair? To project the " what ifs" can truly drive a BS crazy, and be an unhealthy roadblock to moving forward.

Bigger, you are on the right track sending Walloped to another forum (reconciliation?). We know how to stalk him there as well! But, you forgot to tell him to take his towel.

Exactly. To use the ER triage analogy, the patient has come in with a life-threatening infection. There may be other complications but we need to treat the infection hard and fast before it spreads. And unless we cut out the source of the infection, there is a strong chance that it comes back unnoticed a time later, when the patient is unsuspecting.

The treatment of the infection could maim or even kill the patient, but the only certainty is that if the infection stays he dies.

In this case we want to save Wallup's life (fulfillment with life). If we have to amputate (marriage) then it's a travesty, but atleast he is still alive. Many people survive amputation and can even go onto a more fulfilling life afterwards. He'll always miss that leg, though.

As another experienced member here, and one who is no longer hurting, I think Bigger has it right here.

Walloped, I think you have gotten some detachment, you've had some time to think, and you've moved on from shock and disbelief.

You have a plan now. Your plan isn't R or D yet... your plan is to find out which of those two options YOU will decide. Nothing wrong with that.

Keep up the good work.

[This message edited by ChangeMaker at 9:10 AM, October 5th (Monday)]

W

I agree with Bigger. You should be in a different forum.

I said a prayer for you this weekend.

Glad to hear you and your wife being honest.

That is what the future must be based on.

Honesty.

HM