SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

W,

The poly is just one step in a trip of thousands to healing. No matter if D or R what matter is keep moving.

I'm VERY glad to see W taking some time away from the site - hopefully it means he & Mrs. W are working on their issues and learning to communicate again--baby steps are the key I believe.

I've been lurking for awhile and I have to say there is a massive amount of support and good advice on SI -- but I've also read a lot of negative views - which is acceptable but can also be detrimental for some that are still in shock, undecided and hurting. I totally agree with 1985 - spot on!

As someone pointed out -- every relationship is different, every BS is different, every WS is different and every family is different. There is NO normal - everything (relationship/family/person) has some dysfunction - it just depends on who is viewing it and what THEY consider normal and/or acceptable.

W has gotten some wonderful advice and has made positive moves for himself and his family. We can only hope that their story is one of the successful ones --- kudos to the old timers here that have shared their wisdom and support. My heart hurts for so many here but is also very hopeful for so many others -- just call me an optimist!

We're all spiritual beings having a human experience

Walloped, great positive step from the poly on a long journey. Clear your head. Prayers tonight that you continue to use the tool of therapy to process and heal your family. Trust your gut and keep feeding the good wolf!

Walloped,

My own D-day was about 1 week after yours, so we are on a similar timeframe in terms of emotions and working through the process. I don't pretend to have all of the answers and I recognize that it's still early in the game, but I thought it might be helpful to share what has worked for me.

MC - start as soon as possible. I have counselling services available through work and due to a mix-up I was scheduled for both IC and MC. While I have certainly gotten value from IC (managing through emotions, how to refocus when my brain starts to wander down a dark path, dealing with the obsessiveness), I've found that I'm getting more value from MC, mostly because our counsellor is knowledgeable about infidelity and it's a shared "safe" place for my WS and I to talk open and honestly. Going to MC doesn't mean that I've agreed to reconcile, it just means that I've agreed to explore whether it's possible. So far our MC has helped us assess mental state/capacity, our marriage priorities, our goals (are they still aligned?), etc. These aren't items that we were equipped to figure out on our own (at least not as broadly) or through our respective IC sessions. IC is meant for sorting out our individual shit.

Remorse, trust, etc. I'm sure that anyone spying on our current state of affairs would say that my WS is remorseful, that he is being truthful and is demonstrating behaviours that are trustworthy. He has come completely clean, he tells me about all of his daily interactions, how he is feeling, and what he is learning about himself (it isn't pretty). Despite this, I still don't KNOW if he is truly remorseful and I still don't trust him. However I'm willing to continue exploring with him as long as he continues the actions/behaviours that I need to see. It's all we can ask for at this point.

Intimacy - this is a tough one. At first, my WS wanted to hug me to show that he cared and that he is here for me. Sometimes I would let him, and other times I would say no. This has led to casual handholding, kissing, and touching. It took a while to get there, but baby steps are the way to go. The unspoken rules are that I can show affection when I want to (even if it's just to extend an olive branch when I'm not feeling particularly affectionate), and he has to ask. When he asks, I reserve the right to say no. I still have lots of days when I don't want him to touch me at all, and that is ok. However it's important to restart the touching on the good days.

By no means do I expect my journey to look like anyone else's. I am doing these things to be selfish. To figure out what I want from life and from my marriage. And whether I can get these things with my WS. I can't dismiss the good things that allowed our marriage to last this long in the first place, just like I can't dismiss the infidelity.

Good luck W

Thanks tiredness. I appreciate the perspective. And yes...we'll be moving to MC in a bit. Going to start looking for ones soon and plan on discussing with my IC tonight for recommendations.

susieque2 - Yes. And I'm actually going to start posting more in the General / Reconciliation threads as it might be more appropriate for me to post there as I move forward. I might still be in limbo technically, but there are folks posting to JFO daily that need the triage assistance like I did nearly 2 months ago.

MC - start as soon as possible.

Going to have to disagree. MC can wait a bit. Starting MC without the WS having any understanding of *why* they chose to shit on their spouse is pointless, and can be harmful if they start using their "affair mindset" in the MC's office.

Once the WS "gets it," then MC is possible. Before that, no.

I hope it is okay to ask this on this thread as I cannot PM Tiredness, and hopefully the answer will be of value to many on JFO.

Tiredness

What does your IC suggest for when your mind starts going to the darker places? I would love to know any in-the-moment coping strategies.

Thank you.

And sorry, W, for the thread jack.

before rushing into MC, I strongly suggest you get one who has experience in infidelity and who is not going to blame you for her infidelity. It happens a ton and there are hundreds of cases here.

If you don't do this, you'll be back here after a MC confirms that she cheated because 'you weren't filling her needs' and other bullshit like that.

A bad MC is worse than no MC. Based on stories here and with close friends, if I ever get into a situation and can't work things out with my W, there will be no MC. It will be divorce central. However, you choose MC, now find the right one and don't rush into finding one

It should be easy enough to get a recommendation from a BH here in the NYC area.

The WE should be doing all of the heavy lifting of reconciliation EXCEPT picking out a MC and finding legal counsel for the post-nuptial contract.

Spoke with my IC about MC last night. He's going to provide me with a list next week of MC's that he recommends and believes do good work. He gets my views on infidelity and I've made it clear that an absolute requirement is an MC who understands that while we may have marital issues to work through, none of them contributed to, or justify in any way, her affair.

I've said this before in other places on SI that I have a healthy dose of skepticism of therapists in general. I don't really trust folks who get paid more the longer you remain not healed. I've actually said this to my IC - he laughed and then told me that I had about 37 other issues we still need to delve into and recommended upping our sessions to 3 times a week for about 3 more years, which coincidentally coincides with when his son graduates college. Anyway, the upshot is that if any therapist starts spewing garbage along the lines of that X or Y that I did or didn't do enough of caused her to screw POS, I wouldn't tolerate that for a second.

There won't be a post-nup. I don't see the point. Either we R or we D. I'm not concerned about her doing this again. This was her one and only (yes, one is way too many), and I do not see her doing this again after she's been dealing with the devastation it's caused. Plus, if I'm seeking to R, forcing a post-nup seems counter-productive to that. And if I can't get past this, then we D. Again, the post-nup doesn't help. She'd sign it if I asked - she'd view it as another consequence and would do it for me. But I'm not asking.

The post-nuptial isn't to protect you against future affairs, it's to give you leverage in the event of a divorce. You live in NY, you're going to get completely fucking obliterated in the court room.

A post-nup is her way to offer an olive branch and to shoulder the hardships of a divorce, as it should be.

You don't have to leave her in the street, but if you want to see your kids 50% of the time, now is when you want to get that in writing.

I'm not suggesting this as a tool to reconcile or punish her with, this is all about taking every step possible to protect yourself financially and emotionally.

There is a very real chance that this ends in divorce.

Walloped, The value of therapy as a profession...As an aside, some good cajun folk down the bayou would say the same about them NY investment guys...ROI & EBITA sound like Star Wars villains.

Our Prayers this weekend for peace and understanding for your entire family.

My theory on IC versus MC is that the IC serves the person, and the MC serves the marriage. The MC assumes both parties have good intentions. MC doesn't work when one party is still in manipulation mode.

What this sort of implies is that both parties probably can do some things to help the marriage, and both are probably doing some things alright. Good stuff, but also room for improvement. For everybody. As I tell my students when I grade their reports, everybody checks both boxes. Jesus? Needs a haircut. Einstein too. Hitler? Thanks for making the trains run on time.

So go into MC as a team needing coaching, not as a mechanism to leverage your WW's behavior. But this is just my thinking.

It is tough. Your WW knows she screwed the pooch, and is likely primed to make those big changes needed to fix this. She is ready to be the BEST WIFE THAT SHE CAN BE FOREVER...from this point forward of course. Star pupil.

You, on the other hand, are probably going to feel put-upon to have to identify areas for improvement. Uhhh...helloooo...MC...I'm not the one who had the affair. We are we even talking about me AT ALL?

Ahhh well. Fall is here, go leaf-peeping and pumpkin ale tasting with the wife one afternoon.

Best of luck!!!!

The value of therapy as a profession...As an aside, some good cajun folk down the bayou would say the same about them NY investment guys...ROI & EBITA sound like Star Wars villains.

Love it!

There is a very real chance that this ends in divorce.

Yes, there is.

You live in NY, you're going to get completely fucking obliterated in the court room.

Probably. But that would be my decision as (at least now) there's no way she's choosing that option. I can offer her a 7-figure settlement and divorce or nothing and we stay married and she'll pick the latter every time.

but if you want to see your kids 50% of the time, now is when you want to get that in writing.

3 of my kids are old enough where a divorce won't impact them. And you may think me naive, but I'm really not concerned about this aspect of it. 50% / 50% is not what I would expect me to have to fight for, but rather what she'd advocate for.

Reguarding post -nup , you say "you dont see her doing this again " , problem is did you see her doing this in the first place .

Second , " forcing a post -nup " , you shouldnt have to be forcing anything .

Eric is right. I am normally opposed to postnups but in this case, I think one is justifiable.

New York will screw you in the divorce courts. Custody and other issues as well as alimony come into play.

Don't use it as a tool for punishment as some on these boards do. If you make it too costly to her, it will be easier for her to accept divorce. It is an instrument for you to protect yourself as you were the bread winner and divorce courts in NY are gender biased. How would you like to be cheated on and then lost the house and much of what you own ? Not cool.

Think about it but make the terms reasonable

Guys

We get screwed just by living in NY, working in NY and raising a family in NY. The taxes are brutal. Whether it is property tax or school tax. The police dept. in my neck of NY accounts for 23% of my local taxes.

The post nup is not an issue because in most cases in NY post nups don't mean much to anyone but the attorneys that would stand to gain fighting in court over its validity.

Have a great weekend W. Your IC sounds like a good guy.

HM

Hi Walloped -

Just checking in. I had about 10 pages to read, so am telling you upfront I didn't read anyone's post but yours, so I don't know if this has been brought up already.

I hear you saying you don't know if you are going to stay.

I hear you saying you want to stay.

I hear you saying your WW is confident she will never cheat again, you want to believe her and are working on that.

I hear you saying your WW is doing her work in IC, as are you.

What I *haven't* heard, is your acknowledging the possibility that at some point your WW may just LEAVE. That maybe your inability to get past her A (which remains to be seen), or the degree to which you can get past it or not will be unacceptable to her and she may leave the marriage. Whatever issues there were inside her that allowed her to cheat instead of come to you and work on your marriage may allow her to decide she's done with the marriage.

I just see you functioning from a standpoint of all the decision making being about what you need and want, and forgetting that she may just up and leave regardless. If I were her IC, I'd be telling her (at some point down the road), that she deserves to be happy in the marriage and can't be expected to be punished or have the A held over her forever.

I guess your posts about your lack of moving forward and lack of willingness to work with WW have me thinking on this.

Do I think any of that's going to happen based on what you've posted? No. BUT - otoh, you need to at least consider the possibility and be prepared for it, because you never thought she'd cheat on you either.

I'm just sayin'. Devil's advocate and all that. I'd hate for you to be moving along with things and think everything is falling into place only to come home one day and find out she's decided to leave. You know?

((Walloped))

nekorb,

I appreciate the post. I have thought a little about what you're putting out there. I also realize that part of it is within my span of control but most of it is not. If I was lording her affair over her or punishing her in any way, I'd say I own that piece of it (I'm really trying not to). But if it's simply a matter of asking her to give me the time and support I need to heal - and if that's too much for her and she opts out of the marriage as a result, that's on her.

What I've come to the conclusion is that while I want to remain married to her (remains to be seen if I can), if we don't, that's okay too. Not my ideal situation, but neither was finding out my wife was f**king another guy for 3 months. In reality, her affair was a message that she did not want to remain married. But then since DDay, she's professed that she does. If she then chooses to up and leave...well...it won't hurt more than her affair did and I'll be okay. May not like it. May rant and rave about her selfishness, etc., but I'll be fine. I'll have done my part and can tell my kids the same thing. It'll say more about what's important to her and her own personal makeup than it does about me.

Now, I have not seen anything like you're suggesting from her at all. Quite the opposite in fact. But I get and appreciate the word of caution.

And for the record, it's not that I don't have a willingness to work with her - I'd call it more of a seeming inability, which is my own hangup and something I'm dealing with in IC and why I'm looking to start MC soon. To get over that hump.

And thanks for the concern. Really.