SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Feb,

Very gently, Several people have asked, have you given her your list of requirements (assuming you want to R)?

Until you do, you are just pissin' in the wind. You need to draw that line so there are no questions about what you need to R. Then it is up to her. You can't control her choices, but you need to define your boundaries NOW. The sooner she knows what your requirements are, the sooner you will know what direction you are heading.... R or D. Don't negotiate. Just give them to her and then 180 hard.

All I would suggest is to make sure you have your legal issues covered. In some places, whoever leaves, forfeits rights.

When we went through our "separation" for the few months, we divided up kid responsibility on different nights/weekends. It was a temporary separation custody agreement. On those nights that it was "his" night, I left the house, returning to stay in a separate bedroom after my daughter went to bed. On "my" night, he left (generally went out of town). But I didn't move out. I was warned not to "abandon" my child (by leaving the household) or my home - once I moved out, I lost rights. But, I also needed my H to see what a separation was really going to be like.

I would not recommend moving out without getting some sort of agreement on visitation/custody. Otherwise you are going to be hanging out at the house trying to see your kids with her there, or fighting over who sees the kids when. Because you don't live there (even if it is temporary), she holds the power.

Moving out is an emotional decision to get yourself out of an emotional cesspool. Emotional cesspools suck, but in this case, it can be temporary.

Make it a rational decision. Make sure all your ducks are in a row. Make sure you have talked to a lawyer about what moving out could do to a custody battle or in the case of a divorce. Laws differ. Make sure you are covered. Don't trust that she is going to understand and not use it against you.

Show your W that you aren't just angry and leaving. You are serious, you have considered the consequences and you are ready to move forward, with or without her.

[This message edited by coping_girl at 3:58 PM, April 4th (Monday)]

All I would suggest is to make sure you have your legal issues covered. In some places, whoever leaves, forfeits rights.

Yes, I meant to add that as well.

Oh, and watch those 6-packs...you're gonna get fat and slow! Jab, jab

Feb

I wish I could convince you to stop being nice, but you are just a nice guy. If it comes to D, you will find a good woman. You really will.

Now to business.

If you are moving to your sisters for more than a day, then time to get your lawyer to draw up a separation agreement covering custody.

Next, make sure you have all the assets disclosed that you know she has. Make sure she knows this is part of the divorce. She can't keep the $5k hidden.

If MIL is hiding assets for your WW, FIND OUT. Don't think she won't. She has already made it clear she will slice your throat to save her daughter.

Time to GET MAD. And do it now. Because if you let it catch up to you, it will be out of control. Seriously, you have held it together so long, I am surprised. But you are a man and a competitor and when that lid blows off, it could be an uncontrollable chain reaction. So please, start getting mad now when you are in control.

Remember, who was telling you from the start to tell the BS (I guess of OM2, but it is hard to keep track). I was right. You know I am right about this. Don't wait 51 days to listen to the BHs on this board. We've been fucked over and your wife will do the same to you if you make the mistake thinking she will be fair and kind to you. NO SHE WILL NOT.

Hasn't she proven that already???

Get busy fighting for your life and your kids or get busy being screwed over. Your choice.

Okay, now I need to think some more...if I go to my sister's and she practically drags me back home (figuratively on the phone),

Come on Feb, you know better than that. She can't drag you home by phone. Just turn off your phone. And if she calls your sisters landline, tell your sister to let it go to voicemail or answering machine.

Personally, I don't buy the depession angle. EVERYONE has setbacks at work. Practically EVERYONE has a hectic schedule. That doesn't mean she's depressed. I think its a cop out to rationalize away her behavior.

I have not said anything in quite awhile (many pages :)) but I do absolutely positively 100% agree that you should NOT be leaving the house. Please...I know you think it is the easiest for your WS and the MIL...but you are making a HUGE mistake.

Dividing up the house into 1/3 will come down the road, not now. A possible divorce will come down the road but not now, please stop doing things because you see it as best for "down the road". You are giving up any possible strength you have in this horrible game will all have been in.

She might miss you for a bit, but if she is as foggy and far gone as the rest of us feel she is, you are giving up way too much ground to her. She will snap back into her selfishness, and when she sees that with you out of the house not "monitoring" her anymore, yet available to still take the kids and babysit? Well...you just gave her all the ground footage she needs.

Stop. Please.

You are leaving the house, leaving her with everything, no demands on what she should or should not do for R, no attorney app't....what is it you are hoping will happen??? That she snaps out of it because you have left the building????

Not leaving...bags were packed and in hand..about to tell kids...begging, apologies,TT, promises, etc.

Short version only for now.

Fantastic to hear. Do not forget your list of requirements! Stay strong!

Feb, you need a plan.

Back away from the drama. Don't make gestures.

If you want to go to your sister's with the kids for an evening? Do it. That's 180. You don't owe her an explanation, just tell her what you're doing.

You're ping ponging around REACTING to her.

Keep this simple. You want a marriage that is not open. You want NC, honesty, remorse, and transparency. It's been spelled out in 30 pages here. USE THAT BLUEPRINT.

Pull up your socks and do this.

hugs and hugs

We all know how hard this is...and we understand.

Sending positive energy your way in prayer.

Well, I hope you have your boundaries set up for her and what she has to do for you to even think of R with her.

Apologies, the first one I believe! That is a step in the right direction. Be strong with your requirements, Feb.

TT? Interesting. Anything new, or stuff you already knew that she is finally admitting.

I hope you are making the right choice. I would hate to see you in a false R. And that WW is actually seeing the light.

Feb,

Whatever you decide to do is best. No one here can truely know what is going on in your house.

Feb,

One more thing about the depression.

I know everyone is different, but my WW did the deeply depressed thing after D-Day#1 and #2.

I don't think she was trying to manipulate me, but it was a way of not facing the reality of the situation--even if it was only temporary.

Eventually she addressed the depression--getting anti-depressants from the doctor....but I never played into the drama.

Just thought you should consider that.

Slightly longer version...

She started texting in the afternoon asking when I would be home from work...the last one said "please hurry".

When I got home she was lying on the floor (with our daughter playing beside her). She put her arms out and made a fairly pathetic "I need a hug" face. I hugged her, but then got up and said that I could only be with her if she wanted me, not just if she needed me, and I went upstairs.

She followed me. As I was getting my bag (already packed the night before when I didn't go the first time), she blocked me and pleaded with me. I told her that it wasn't necessarily over, I just needed some time and a break to decide.

At that point, she seemed pretty desperate. I don't know if she said or even meant everything that was needed, but I also knew i couldn't leave her alone with the kids at that point in time.

I wish I had the VAR I just bought on me, because I'd love to listen to this again to make sure Im not forgetting anything.

She apologized. She apologized for not being there for me like she should have in the days after D-Day.

She told me she would do anything to keep our marriage. I told her no more contact with OM. She said she wanted one more converstaion for closure and that she wanted to tell him she was mad at him for not listening to her the first time she tried to push him away (OK, still pretty foggy there - although the story is true, because she had very casually mentioned it to me before anything happened -"If you cross that line, I'll slug you"). I told her sure if I could be there, or otherwise a NC e-mail. Then I told her that she needed to tell me if there was anything else I should know...

You were right. It went underground after D-Day. She told me right then and there, and I picked up my bag again and started walking...she pleaded again, she didn't have to tell me that, she could have kept lying...I thought of thundersdad and his TT dilemma...and let her talk, all the while with the bag on my shoulder.

I told her she needed to go to IC and she reluctantly agreed (to go, she wasn't agreeing that she needed to).

I told her that I would like to see her cell phone records and have her email passwords. I pointed out that OM1 had given his wife that access 7 years ago after his first transgresion.

She said "I lost my way, but I want to come back" and other things like that.

THe seriusly skeptical will either want to skip this next statement or rip it to shreds, but as hitbyatruck said

No one here can truely know what is going on in your house

:

I think I may have been watching as WW began to chnage back into my W.

This morning she is taking both boys out of school to make up for missing our 7 year olds birthday (his party is Friday anyway). She is taking them to, get this irony fans, the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Despite this, she was having a rough morning, coming up to me initiating hugs. Just before I left she said to me, "Let's get me counselling. I need it."

So...I am not jumping the gun and moving over to the R forum. She doesn't know hopw long a process this is going to be. She doesn't realize that there will be upsa and downs, and that there is some very serous emotion bubbling under the surface for me wrt her getting together with OM after D-Day.

Any backsliding on her part, and I will bring her back to reality.

Thank you to everyone who has helped me through this ordeal. I wish I had listened sooner about informing the OBS. Use me as an exapmle. It's the right thing to do, and it works.

[This message edited by Feb 8, 2011 at 7:19 AM, April 5th (Tuesday)]

I am happy for you, Feb. It does sound like your WW is finally remorseful. Maybe not how bufffalo describes it, but alot of us don't get that kind of remorseful.

You are right, don't jump to R. There is so much work to do. It is hard!!! For both of you, it hurts alot.

One thing my FWH and I regret is that we didn't read "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass right after D-day. We hadn't heard of it until I found SI (8 months after D-day). It is the most helpful book for infidelity ever. It is a handbook on how to get through this, step by step.

Please, get 2 copies of "Not Just Friends" and both of you read one chapter and then discuss it. FWH and I did this. It opened up so many good discussions and helped us immensely even 8 months later. It would've been awesome to read it right after d-day as we were stumbling along and doing the right things, but it was more of a trial and error thing.

It is easy to read and she has quizzes for both of you to take. The book was actually more helpful to us than MC was as far as the infidelity was concerned.

Keep us posted as you can, Feb.

Let's get me counselling. I need it."

Ok, over to her now - to research, seek out, arrange, and attend. Action is needed from her now.

Interesting the split you made between WW and W. I made a somewhat similar split between HX (whole, self-Liking, self-respecting honest etc) and HY (Peter Pan, lost soul, who was also liar, cheater, self-deluding etc) and would suggest HX have a conversation with HY and only come to me with the fruits of that dialogue: it meant for four-cornered conversations sometimes, but really helped navigation and orientation and clarity sometimes, at least for us.

She said she wanted one more converstaion for closure and that she wanted to tell him she was mad at him for not listening to her the first time she tried to push him away

DO NOT let her have a closure conversation with OM!!

Fine members of SI can you educate Feb on how closure conversations turn AP's into star-crossed lovers...and what that's all about!! Where's Bigger. He explains this one really good!

It went underground after D-Day. She told me right then and there

Good for her. That's encouraging.

It sounds like there's a good chance for a R but you need to keep your boundaries tight. If you don't, R will go south.

I'm cautiously optimistic for you. I think there's a path.

She said she wanted one more converstaion for closure and that she wanted to tell him she was mad at him for not listening to her the first time she tried to push him away

Victim-speak. Needs to achieve complete indifference to him. Wrong focus.

Feb,

Sounds like your wife is at the beginning of maybe seeing the issues at hand. But the one thing she sees is that she is about to be alone. All the histrionics and pleading are about that she is scared. There is a big difference between being scared and regret and remorse. Three different things.

She is scared to lose her life, but still has not owned a thing. There are a few glimmers, don’t let them confuse the situation. Did you read the post from yesterday about what remorse looks like? If not please DO.

She told me she would do anything to keep our marriage. I told her no more contact with OM. She said she wanted one more conversation for closure and that she wanted to tell him she was mad at him for not listening to her the first time she tried to push him away

What??? She wants her last troubled movie scene with him, the I wish it didn’t end this way. You were my everything conversation. It prolong attachment shows no indifference and definitely shows she still values contact with him over you. All she is doing is demonstrating she is scared mode.

Despite this, she was having a rough morning, coming up to me initiating hugs. Just before I left she said to me, "Let's get me counselling. I need it."

WATCH HER ACTIONS!! What is she doing?

Then pick up the fucking phone and make a call.!! That’s an actual demonstration that she is owning her shit and starting to take care of it. Don’t make one call for her, don’t do this for her!. If she wants it she can set it up. Ask her for your R requirements and see if SHE follows through on actions. That should start with LETTER to other man, Or phone call with you present on speaker phone.

I have much hope for you. There might actually be moving in the right direction. Maybe not watch her actions, she is mixing in signals but there is no clear commitment to you through action.

Prayers for you!

LHAP?

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 8:10 AM, April 5th (Tuesday)]