SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Feb 8, 2011...

I'm sending you a PM

One note of caution about the bags being packed.

Do not play this card when she is revealing more info. It will drag out the TT much longer. There will be consequences for everything that she has done, but you do not want her to associate those consequences with telling the truth. It is kinda like training a puppy. Reward the behaviour you want to encourage (telling the truth), even if that reward is that you resist the urge to rip her head off. The consequences for bad behaviour have to be clearly associated with the bad behaviour in her mind.

It is very easy to turn into Wilma Flintstone threatening to go home to mother at every revelation.

Funny how things work out, don't they? You were going to go to your sisters for a few days, but now you get to go out of town for business.

I assume that you have the keylogger on the computers installed and the VAR installed in the vehicle. Might make for some interesting analysis when you get back. Don't be surprised if you find out she broke NC, as some WS tend to do.

And I agree with others here. There is a long road to R and she has to meet the requirements. Otherwise, as I'm sure you have read other stories here....if you rush into R when the WS hasn't even met any guidelines, then you are just setting yourself up for FALSE R.

omg, I'm Wilma?!?!

wrt to the possible trip...I don't see there being any "safer" scenario than leaving her alone with all three kids.

Will somebody please let me know (I don't think a 2 x 4 is the right tool for this) if/when I am ready for the Reconciliation forum?

Feb, does your MIL ever babysit? Do your children sleep?

If she's got the will (for... closure) there's a way. That's your new reality.

The keylogger and VAR advice is GOOD advice. Take it. Best case scenario, there is nothing to discover. Worst case? Painful, obviously, but then you can move forward with divorce and you're not wasting your time in "R."

But thinking her children will keep her from her OM addiction? Not likely.

From what you've posted, she doesn't even see the necessity of going NC with the OMs. She's got a justification ready made, in which she's not a Bad Person (she has to tell him how WRONG he was to make a pass at her!

) Now she wants to blameshift the A to the OM?

Look, she might mean what she says about wanting the M (does she see M the same way or does she still want it open? Are you suddenly sexually attractive again or must she hold her nose and lay back and think of England?) or she might not. As they say, trust but verify.

You ARE the M police right now. You'd be an idiot to trust her this early in.

Feb

Go on the trip.

If she contacts OM she will contact OM. You will find out.

If she doesn’t… well that’s an indicator on her commitment.

You can be totally frank with her: tell her that you worry that if you leave she will break NC. Then tell her if she wants to she can – only not as your wife. Then also tell her you resent having these worried and that they WILL be with you for months – even years. Ask her what SHE can do to offer assurances.

You do not want to be her warden – you want to be her husband.

Look – many people will tell you that in order to reconcile she has to be reconciled… Maybe even the same group that think the only route to the North Pole is true north. Truth is a journey starts with motion that eventually leads to the destination. Anything before that is pure planning and preparation. Something you have been doing so greatly and aptly to-date.

This is a long-term situation you are working on. No need to spend all your effort and energy on the first mile. But at the same time remember – you complete a marathon one mile at a time.

You will be ready for the R forum if and when you see her TAKE ACTION on her own. When she calls and makes her own counseling appt. without you nagging her. When she starts to participate on her own with the kids or with you (and not to make it look better). When she can have a conversation and it not be about her and what she needs, and how hurt she is.

When the conversations turn to how she hurt you. I am sorry. I can't believe I did this. Disgust with herself and her actions. When she SEES a NEED for IC not just as a requirement from you, but b/c it is needed. When the selfishness is gone and she realizes she has kids who need her and a husband who still loves her after what she did.

If you start to get any of these conversations, if you start to see actions from her and behaviour changes and are able to start having the conversations (after much IC) about why she did it, what she was really feeling and thinking (not blameshifting). Then you move to R.

By the way, I think you are doing the best anyone can. But, honestly, it is time to step back and watch her actions. It is also still time to have conversations with the kids. It doesn't have to be I am going to Aunt xxx's. But, it needs to be hugs, and I know you guys no mommy and daddy haven't been getting along much but I want you to know we are working on it. We are trying to figure out some things that we don't agree on. SOmething like that. Ask the boys what they think, what they feel and let them talk and get it out. This could also be one reason why they have been picking on each other so much lately.

Hang in there Feb. Just step back and watch now and see what happens. It is time to accept that you can't control her actions and step back to see what she does. It is a hard but the necessary next step.

Okay, let's see. You had one foot out the door with suitcase packed and then, all of a sudden she comes clean about life after D day. Hmmmmm, I think there is more to tell my friend. I just betcha

But, honestly, it is time to step back and watch her actions.

Yes.

Feb, you mentioned that you are going to soon offer her your 'deliverables' for R; the sooner the better.

And like you already mentioned Feb, I think this work trip might work out OK. Frankly, one of the more powerful things would have been, right after her recent episode of pleading, revelation of OM contact subsequent to DD, etc., would have been to send HER on her way, with a list in hand.

This trip, can sort of serve a similar purpose. Give her the list, go on your trip, and verbalize that when you return, you'll assess progress -- did she schedule counseling, craft a NC letter that you can review prior to sending, maintain NC during that interim, etc.? And YOU remain 180 with her during your trip -- nothing except contact with your children.

If progress is insufficient, assuming you are legally prepared with proper protections for a temporary leave of the home, you follow through with your plan to stay at sister's and of course continue proceeding as planned with D.

Then go on your trip, come back, and do exactly that.

I think there is some glimmer here. Yes, she's fumbling, but I'm sure she doesn't really know what to do. Give her an outline of what you want to see; she probably needs a little guidance and I don't think it's a bad thing to offer it. But, once given, leave it up to her to get it done and SHOW YOU what she's accomplishing.

You shouldn't have to continually 'nag' or 'police' the M. But, in the very beginning, you may have to do both. Then, after a short time, you should be able to eliminate the 'nag' part. The policing, well, that'll take considerable more time to do away with...just look at some of the 'back after 3-5 years' posts.

Also, keep your optimism in check...there may be hope, but don't give in to it by 'reading' too much into her current behavior just yet. You already see that she's still wrapped in her fogginess with that 'closure' bit and her anger that OM didn't listen and hit on her anyway. <YAWN>Yeah, so if we don't warn EVERY man in the world to not hit on her, and actually believe they will all adhere, then I guess we still have to worry about another A? OK then, see ya!

"you complete a marathon one mile at a time."

THIS!!

As a marathoner....I likened my situation to a marathon...a tough one....

I am at mile 18 right now waiting for "The wall"....I hope it never comes...

Look – many people will tell you that in order to reconcile she has to be reconciled… Maybe even the same group that think the only route to the North Pole is true north. Truth is a journey starts with motion that eventually leads to the destination. Anything before that is pure planning and preparation. Something you have been doing so greatly and aptly to-date.

I have a slightly different interpretation, and honestly, I'm sure you probably agree.

I don't think most of that group you describe believes it's the ONLY way, it's just that a straight-line trip via true north is shorter and quicker. A more circuitous route is lengthier and fraught with more pain/uneasiness. I think that's what that group is trying to lessen with their advice/admonishments -- the additional strife.

"you complete a marathon one mile at a time."

THIS!!

As a marathoner....I likened my situation to a marathon...a tough one....

I am at mile 18 right now waiting for "The wall"....I hope it never comes...

Yep, I totally get this too.

My last two marathons, I trained heavily, carefully gauged my potential and both times, thought for sure I was capable of targeting 2:39:high...sub 2:40.

By mile 20, both races, I was riding the edge, hoping to avoid the wall. By mile 23, I'm still on target and while I'm skating thin ice, I still think I've got it...then in the last 3 miles, run smack into it, start leaking time all over the place, losing a minute and a half in just 3 miles and clock 2:41:low each time.

<sigh>Nothing to do, but try again another day :)

Yep, I totally get this too.

My last two marathons, I trained heavily, carefully gauged my potential and both times, thought for sure I was capable of targeting 2:39:high...sub 2:40.

By mile 20, both races, I was riding the edge, hoping to avoid the wall. By mile 23, I'm still on target and while I'm skating thin ice, I still think I've got it...then in the last 3 miles, run smack into it, start leaking time all over the place, losing a minute and a half in just 3 miles and clock 2:41:low each time.

I am going to t/j my own thread to say WOW...not everyone knows how FAST that is, but it is really really fast, enough to win smaller local marathons, definitely in the top half-percent of all runners. I managed a 3:26:14 full and a 1:29:40 half...and then got back on my bike.

You ARE the M police right now. You'd be an idiot to trust her this early in.

I know, but there is far greater danger on the days that she is home with no kids in school, than there will be when she has all three of them for four days.

It is also still time to have conversations with the kids. It doesn't have to be I am going to Aunt xxx's. But, it needs to be hugs, and I know you guys no mommy and daddy haven't been getting along much but I want you to know we are working on it.

Yes it is. Our 9 year old asked us yesterday why we are fighting so much.

Okay, let's see. You had one foot out the door with suitcase packed and then, all of a sudden she comes clean about life after D day. Hmmmmm, I think there is more to tell my friend. I just betcha

I'm scared of this too, of course. But she volunteered the information...I told her I needed to know if there was anything else she'd been hiding, any more truths I needed to know.

I need to work on my list...Oh I know this was supposed to be ready before now, but I actually didn't see us getting to this point when we did (if we are actually here, that is)

1. NC letter, followed by NC

2. Call for and arrange IC session (she does this)

3. Read "Not Just Friends", and if I get a copy, "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair"

TOTAL TRANSPARENCY

4. Share email and phone passwords, and agree that a new e-mail account or second cell phone is a DEAL-BREAKER.

5. Use her own GPS in van to record all driving on days that she is alone at home.

Along with Gardenmoms list...BAck on Page 18...

1. NC

2. Transparency

3. No rides alone with men. Must include you. (for now) eventually maybe could include females. But not yet

4. IC

5. Honesty, full accounting of any questions you need answered

6. Participation of family/kids activities (not just showing up).

7. Reading, journaling in an effort to fix M, herself, and be a good mother. (I am not sure she knows what this means).

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 12:40 PM, April 5th (Tuesday)]

This is the list I was looking for, thanks for the page reference.

She said she wanted one more converstaion for closure and that she wanted to tell him she was mad at him for not listening to her the first time she tried to push him away...-"If you cross that line, I'll slug you".

Why didn't she 'slug him', instead of spread her legs for him?

The ONLY "CLOSURE" that she needs to do is to go NO CONTACT forever! OM should be meaningless to her and the ONLY person she should be focusing on is *YOU*!!!!

She has NO reason to 'be mad' at OM, she should be disgusted and angry with herself because all she had to do was REFUSE him and keep HER legs shut! (I've been hit on by a lot of guys and I always just said "NO"! It really is that easy!!!)

If you go on that trip, I'd suggest putting a VAR in the home and also one in her vehicle. I'm sorry Feb, but I think she is using you as a fall-back guy. Tread VERY carefully, you're barely past dday and...well, just be careful and keep your eyes wide open!

(((((Feb)))))

feb, now is the time to be very careful. Your wife needs you so she can face being an outcast. This is about appearances. She doesn't want to be alone to face the music, hence her desperation to have you stay.

You want your wife back, but it has to be for the right reasons. You want her back so badly you are vulnerable. You need to stay strong, focused on what your want your M to be and how to get there.

Right now, your W is still dodging responsibility...her anger at the OM because he flirted with her, and now her life is in ruins. We all know how to rebuff unwanted advances and make our meaning clear.

Stay focused, keep your guard up and don't get caught up in her LITTLE gestures of being a changed woman. Hasn't happened at this point. She is still trying to figure out how to maintain being first, for her, you and the kids.

Right now, your W is still dodging responsibility...her anger at the OM because he flirted with her, and now her life is in ruins. We all know how to rebuff unwanted advances and make our meaning clear.

Exactly. She is still blameshifting and not owning up to her shit. She said she would slug this guy if he crossed the line. Did she do that? Nope. She spread her legs for him. Multiple times. Probably did the nasty, porno style sex with him. And that is a far cry from slugging him.

it is official...I hate both of you! :)

I am a former BodyBuilder turned Triathlete (244 lbs)....and a slow one at that....and both my marathons were in the 4 hr range :(.....

but I look good doing it!

Keep a smile Feb....it helps...