SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

msk99... Trust is a choice. Yes, you can trust your W again… when you decide. Today, no, you cannot trust her. You should not. Of course you are sad she cheated you. Who would not be? She holds no cards over you. She has failed your family… not you. She failed and did not have the ability to make sure you understood what she needed. She made the decision to commit sin.. Not you. It’s totally about selfish and greed to satisfy her own lust. She failed the M, not you. She was controlling by making you believe a false reality. this is Spousal abuse.

It’s going to take a long time… It’s going to be sad, hurtful… all that… Prepare youself... Take care of yourself...

You won't be able to control the decision she makes, but you can control what you do. Do you think you want to R? Then tell her... If she says yes.. then you act accordingly. If she says I don't know.. then For me having been through this...move forward with a S. Protect yourself....

Are you taking care of yourself?

Have you started a exercise routine? Have you visited you Dr to get a sleep aid and AD? Did you find a friend of the M to vent? Have you started to read some books about infidelity? (sounds like you have Dr Phil’s book...) Can you believe in faith? Have you contacted a lawyer to set yourself for you W leaving you so you can be in the best possible financial position? What else did I forget?

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:36 AM, August 17th (Tuesday)]

Thanks again trynhard, good point about trust.

At this point, I really feel like I need to put myself out there and verbally give my WS two options, I guess a bit of an ultimatum of sorts. Option #1 is to fully commit to R which means she needs to somehow get over the anger and resentment held towards me for the state of the relationship and how we got into this "place". Option #2 is for her to simply leave. Part of me wants to just throw it out there and see what happens. Is this a stupid move to make or should I just continue taking it day by day?

msk,

Welcome to SI.

You really need to talk to OM's wife. They may still be married, do you really trust your WW's word?

It also sounds like your WW has some entitlement issues.

msk99... I agree with Lonerider... talk to OM's wife. Just let her know all that you know... It is the right thing to do. Please, do not be afraid. Go say a prayer before you do it.. You'll be OK... Everything will be fine in time. Life is not always easy but this is something you can make it through.

Give yourself some time before the final D... Yes, give her an choice if that is what you want.. Tell her what you are thinking.

If you think you can make it through this.. Then tell her. Tell her you still want the M... you want to R... and that comes with conditions.. NC... Outside help..(next chapter you face in life) Tell her it's not up to some damn councilor to fix the M.. it’s up to both of you. A councilor can and will only give you options, see things you both miss.

If she is uncertain... I’m telling you just to go ahead and seek legal help for a S. During S, many people wake up.

Peace will come with actions… Good luck.

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:21 AM, August 18th (Wednesday)]

Msk99,

Option #1 is to fully commit to R which means she needs to somehow get over the anger and resentment held towards me for the state of the relationship and how we got into this "place".

I think you are on the right track here--it disturbs me that a lot of the discussion you and your WW are having about her affair focuses on your "flaws" and how *you* "hurt her" and made her angry. Given what she's done, that's a crock of BS. She had the affair.

Instead of telling her to "get over" her hurt, you might insist she acknowledge that what she did to you is far worse. You have been hurt far worse. Her attempt to focus on her own pain is not just selfish--it's a tactical ploy to keep her from having to deal with what she did. And if she doesn't deal with it, this will never resolve.

I guess one other thing I haven't mentioned so far is that WS had EA with another man about 3 years ago. She never acknowledged it being an A of any sort - just friends. I saw a text one night when she was acting real weird. It said something along the lines of "Sweet dreams, have a good day tomorrow". There were a few other cases where she would text him while sneaking into bathrooms, even one night she was drunk and was texting him as we were all sitting have drinks. Not sure if it became physical or not, but I know she was attracted to him. My gut tells me that EA has been over now for a bit. I didn't mention it as I have been so focused on dealing with the current shitstorm I have on my plate. I guess as each day goes by, I am feeling used, played, etc., and at some point something drastic has to happen and I really have to stick up for myself. WS has been scooting out every night to her sisters place, and I can tell my boys are on edge over this. It is killing me to see the uncertainty they are sensing/feeling. No kids should have to deal with this in their young, innocent lives.

Just a quick question/thought for anyone reading. Thinking back to how my marriage started to hit rocky times by WS demanding more of me and me taking it as nagging which in turn unfortunately led me to withdrawal on an emotional level (which I realize now and feel like a donkey), which in turn made her mad and led to A - does this equate to emotional neglect on my end? It wasn't an intentional emotional withdrawal, it was just how I dealt with a situation where I didn't have the tools at that time to deal with her request. WS is really just harping on me being neglectful, and maybe I have answered my own question. The rollercoaster continues.....

I'm sure there's a lot to explore there, but I wouldn't let myself get too wrapped up in the question just now.

Self-improvement is fine, up to a point--there's never a bad time to become a better partner. But it's a real balancing act. You cannot let yourself cross the line into taking responsibility for the A--that was 100% her choice, and that betrayal is the most critical problem now facing you. If you let her deflect by focusing every conversation on you and your supposed failings, then it's simply avoidance on her part, not a good-faith effort to fix your M.

Yes, cycles of pursuit and withdrawal are common in M, and it's good to recognize these patterns and work to neutralize them. But keep in mind that during all the time she's been having these EAs and PAs, she's been rewriting history to exaggerate your flaws, because it helps her rationalize her cheating. She hasn't helped you become the kind of partner she claims to have wanted. Instead of being engaged and assertive with you about unmet needs, she's given the best of herself to some OM and left you with scraps. She's come to actively rely on her mental image of you as a bad, neglectful H!

So how do you walk this tightrope between introspection and doormattery?

A good MC can help by keeping your WW honest in discussion and calling her out when she starts deflecting and blame-shifting...if that isn't happening, then you need another MC. Talking to OMW and comparing notes can help too, by letting the helium out of the A fantasy balloon--that levels the playing field. You can help yourself by being assertive and explicit about your needs (NC, transparency, etc), by mapping out and pursuing personal growth towards a better future that doesn't depend on her staying or going, and by drawing firm boundaries that protect you from continued abuse and cruelty (no empty threats here; be absolutely prepared to follow through on consequences).

If you conduct yourself with dignity and resolve, and keep a tight rein on your emotions and your fear of losing her, you send the message that you love her to death, but you won't share her. You present yourself in the best possible light and show her exactly what she stands to lose. If you follow this difficult path there is really no way you can damage your chances at R--If she still walks away, you'll know there really was nothing more you could have done.

Silencio is right about your WW rewriting your marital history. Each day you turn out to be a worse and worse person than you ever were in real life.

The main problem still remains with your WW's attitude. She has to get her head out of her you-know-where and accept responsibility for her actions. Until she does this, there is no chance of R. I am not sure she will respond well to ultimatums in this mental state; unless these are your true convictions then I would delay this until a later time.

As for her distancing herself a few years back before her EA--is it possible she started the EA(or at least the beginning inappropriate feelings) prior to her attention demands and distancing from you?

Thanks again for your thoughts everyone, can't tell you how much it makes me feel like I am not going crazy here.

Getting close to 2 weeks from DDay, but feels more like 20 years. At this point I am really feeling drained emotionally, R seems like such an unattainable goal at this point.

Not sure if I made a mistake (I have really tried doing the 180s), but I pointblank asked her if she has been in contact with OM. She said a very quick no, and thats it. There was a pause for about 20 seconds where neither of us said anything. I was hoping during that pause would produce an emphatic no, saying something like it is totally over or something like that. Wishful thinking I suppose.

Last night was the first night I slept outside the house and WS slept at home. I don't want to close her off to the kids, I respect her as a mom. And the only way she is going to sleep here is if I don't.

What a dreadful sleep, could have been the thunderstorm that rolled through, but spent a good amount of time staring at the ceiling questioning so many things. I know in this type of situation patience is a virtue, but as trynhard said above it is going to take a long time. So unsure of things right now - R or S or straight to D....

One other thing, my oldest son is really start to sense there are some problems as mom is always "working late". I need to break the news to him that his mom and dad are going through a rough time. Any tips on how to best do this????

Again, thanks to you all for being my cyberspace soundboard!!!!! Take care!!!!!

Thanks again for your thoughts everyone, can't tell you how much it makes me feel like I am not going crazy here.

Getting close to 2 weeks from DDay, but feels more like 20 years. At this point I am really feeling drained emotionally, R seems like such an unattainable goal at this point.

Not sure if I made a mistake (I have really tried doing the 180s), but I pointblank asked her if she has been in contact with OM. She said a very quick no, and thats it. There was a pause for about 20 seconds where neither of us said anything. I was hoping during that pause would produce an emphatic no, saying something like it is totally over or something like that. Wishful thinking I suppose.

Last night was the first night I slept outside the house and WS slept at home. I don't want to close her off to the kids, I respect her as a mom. And the only way she is going to sleep here is if I don't.

What a dreadful sleep, could have been the thunderstorm that rolled through, but spent a good amount of time staring at the ceiling questioning so many things. I know in this type of situation patience is a virtue, but as trynhard said above it is going to take a long time. So unsure of things right now - R or S or straight to D....

One other thing, my oldest son is really start to sense there are some problems as mom is always "working late". I need to break the news to him that his mom and dad are going through a rough time. Any tips on how to best do this????

Again, thanks to you all for being my cyberspace soundboard!!!!! Take care!!!!!

I am sorry that you have had to join our family, but this site saved my life and I know you will find it invaluable too.

Several of your points about your WW bother me. She is not owning her stuff and it is ridiculous that it is up to 'you' to do anything in order for her stop her A-per her comment in counseling. No...you will NOT R unless the A stops first...period. If this comment was made in front of the counselor and they sat there and said nothing to her, then get another counselor asap!

In regards to telling friends and family, I did not tell family as it would make it difficult to R. Some would never understand why I would even consider it and that would make everyone awkward for years to come, if not separate members of the family. I actually only told a very few close friends and WH told no one, of course.

But, if your WW keeps running and staying with her sister, then you may want to clue her in. I seriously doubt that she would condone what her sister is doing and if WW is only staying there to make it easier to get time with OM without your watchful eye, then your SIL deserves to know she is being used. Or, she KNOWS about the A, and is no longer a 'friend' of your marriage and you should cut her off.

You have owned up to your half of the pre A problems in the marriage-good for you. Your WW on the other hand, is using yours as an excuse, the catalyst, for her behavior and not owning up to hers at all.

Do NOT believe one thing that WW says. You cannot believe that the OM's marriage is over; as someone else said, WW is your only source of information and why would OM be upset that you found out about the A? Surely he would be excited at the possibility that they could now be together full time? Or maybe, he is just afraid that you will offer his wife more ammo for his divorce? Doesn't even matter. Talk to the OM's BW asap. Do not wait one minute longer. She may not even know anything at all...and deserves to know that her marriage is all a big lie as well. Be matter of fact, try not to bring your anger of her WH out, just give out the information that you know to be true and tell her that you were told that her marriage is separated and that she was also aware of your WW. Let her do the talking after that. You may be surprised what you hear. I say this because MOW led WH to believe that her marriage was over; she couldn't wait to get out. But, when I outed them to her BH, he had absolutely no clue that they weren't happy as clams. MOW had been playing both ends of the stick; actually used the phrase 'you are my happy ending' with BH and WH. It was sickening.

You sound strong. You really should immediately speak with an attorney to know your rights and how to protect your children. Sometimes just knowing that the BS is willing to walk will snap a WS out of it, just saying. My own attorney even told me that too often she will see a BS do whatever they can to save the marriage only to have the WS just take advantage of them while still making absolutely no effort to save or repair the marriage. Unfortunately, that was me...don't make my mistake.

Take care. You are doing great. My heart goes out to your children; they always suffer the most. Take extra care of them to know that you love them and will always be there for them. They are very good at detecting things, probably more than you think.

If you read other BS's posts regarding what they wish they had done sooner, most of them will say talking to other betrayed spouse and exposing the affair almost always. You are actually helping her stay in her affair at this moment by keeping their secret. They discuss their options together, it's two aganst one, you are the third wheel at the moment. I know you are concerned that by exposing them you will hurt your chance at R, sorry friend but them playing house together is what is hurting your chances as a couple. Get rid of the cancer.

msk99... my thoughts about you...

At this point I am really feeling drained emotionally, R seems like such an unattainable goal at this point.

Yes, I know... I'm sure you are not yourself. Let me tell you, I'm sure the old you is gone forever.

and this...

So unsure of things right now - R or S or straight to D....

You are in a limbo right now... the uncertainty hurts you... some certainty is needed for you to move forward... tough decisions need to be made. "seems like such an unattainable goal".. sure it does.. it will take a long time... but you will find happiness one way or another.. either with your W or not.. you will have it again!

Ok.. so what are you doing? Have you had a discussion with your W about if you both want to "move on" or "R"? IF she says, "I don't know" I recommend it is time to file S and yes, asked her to move out... If R.. then you both have some work to do...

Have you contacted OMW to inform her of what has happened? (CAN YOU SEE what all of us are saying? You will never regret doing this.... Just do it.)

Have you done any of those "taking care of yourself" list we have given you?

As for her earlier A.. yep.. I think it was likly a stepping stone to this one.. once you have an A, unless you can somehow awake and understand what mature true love is about... you will continue to seek those feelings you think are love.. you continue to have a dysfunctional brain and make unhealthy decision that always lead to unhappiness.. You think she is happy right now? I think not.

So you know.. At 2 weeks.. I had cried everyday many times a day. It consumed my thought over 95%... so many questions unanswered.. the fear was very high.. the uncertainty.. visions overwhelmed me..

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:45 AM, August 22nd (Sunday)]

Let me speculate. This "thing' ain't over! She's still involved (on some level) with the OM or SOME OM! I'd go back to square one and do the investgative shit. Keylogger, VAR in her car. Check her cell phone. Get a P.I. a couple of those nights she's "out with her sister." Is there a BIL you can call for some insight into these 'nights out?" Have you called the OM"s wife? If not, why not?

For what's next Iapologize but I think someone needs to say what several of us are thinking... your wife is still involved. She has absolutely NO respect for your marriage, you as her husband or for that matter you as a man! She thinks you're a pussy that's just going to eat as much dung as she can crap out! Sorry to be so harsh. I keep going back to her words," going to get real ugly" and "as long as I'm with you!" UNBELIEVEABLE! Maybe your situation reminds me of the mistakes I made.

You folks are all soooo right. I did a bit of investigating this morning and see that she called OM on Friday. We had a big discussion on Sunday, and says she hasn't been in touch with him at all, which is a total and utter lie as she phoned him Friday afternoon. I have had enough. I am going to kick her out of the house and head straight for D. I deserve better than this.

Good decision.

It is so weird how we as BS's are so frozen in the beginning of discovery. Denial is a very strong thing. We allow the WS to make it all of our fault and we sit there bleeding but won't have the guts or will be too scared to turn around and finally say NO! You are lying to me, you are still lying to me and I finally had enough guts to get some answers instead of letting the person who created this mess to continue to blame ME!

It is empowering to finally get up the nerve to now double check what they are telling you. I just hope you did not tell her how or why you know. Keep all sleuthing materials to yourself.

If she is still in contact with OM, she is choosing him over your marriage. If she is not 100% committed to you and your family help her pack and show her the door. I don't know what province you are in but if you are in southern Alberta I know some really good divorce lawyers. Stand up for yourself, protect your children and your banking.