SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Do it, but timing will be everything.

Do you intend to confront your WW first then the BW?

Once you confront either or the other, the other will be on their phone faster than lightening to the AP to get their stories straight.

It would be great if you could get ahold of the BW while yours is walking into the house.

Good points, all. Well, I was sort of pondering that since WW and OM are both away at least for several more days, it would give her an opportunity to do some sleuthing at home. Unfortunately, I have no idea how BW may react to the news of the A.

If I were to guess, if BW called OM (and didn't reveal I was the source), it might play out that OM catches hell from BW, OM notifies WW. WW either stays mum about it, hoping that news doesn't get back to me (since OM and WW live in different states), or she confesses.

You're right about the possibility of them conniving to get their stories straight. And it's exactly what I don't want (deception, TT, gaslighting, etc.).

So, benefits:

1) Ends the A now.

2) Possibly an ally (BW) to gain evidence of PE from his emails, or a confession.

3) She possibly comes to me with a confession, knowing the A is exposed.

4) Less chance of catching hell for invading her privacy if she doesn't know I'm the source.

Drawbacks:

1) BW might freak out and become an adversary rather than ally.

2) Sources revealed, potential for taking A further underground.

3) Chances of getting evidence of PE diminished due to purging of A evidence by OM and WW.

4) OM and WW concocting correlating alibis/excuses.

Pretty tough call. I'll need to chew on this for a while.

Imho, forget benefits #3 and #4. It's extremely unlikely that OM getting heat from his BW is going to inspire your WW to confess. I don't think I've ever heard that scenario here at SI.

Also, don't you dare EVER take any flak for snooping, no matter who was whose source of info. The audacity of WS's getting pissed off about the invasion of their privacy is totally whack. Do NOT apologize and do NOT allow her to turn the tables on you.

If your wife were Mother Theresa, then she might have cause to be angry about you snooping, and maybe then you'd owe her an apology. When snoopers are correct in their suspicions and turn up hard evidence, then the end completely justifies the means.

If you're not ready to call it quits based on what evidence you have, then you've got to resign yourself to a waiting game. Keep your eyes and ears open, and arrange a PI for the next location they'll be together. I'd bet it wouldn't take long to turn up irrefutable evidence.

Imho, forget benefits #3 and #4. It's extremely unlikely that OM getting heat from his BW is going to inspire your WW to confess. I don't think I've ever heard that scenario here at SI.

Also, don't you dare EVER take any flak for snooping, no matter who was whose source of info. The audacity of WS's getting pissed off about the invasion of their privacy is totally whack. Do NOT apologize and do NOT allow her to turn the tables on you.

Thank you. You are right. Glad to have some objective points of view here. My thoughts are pretty clouded by the situation.

As for the snooping, I saw someone on here said "There's nothing wrong with investigating YOUR marriage," which is exactly how I see it.

Good insights, thanks again.

Don't do it. I know it's hard but wait!

When I found out about my WH's A, I called him from overseas and blasted him. I was in such a crazy state of mind that it never dawned on me to hold the cards close. He acted very apologetic on the phone but by the next day, after he'd spoke with his AP, the story changed and his anger started at me!

Shock and awe is the best strategy. Also, you need to see her eyes when you do this. You need to see her actions.

Don't tell......yet.

I have to agree, as I've seen this in several real life instances myself. When a man is the SAHD, and the wife is working, this tends to happen.

Raises his hand.

Anyway, ChoppingOnions, having been through this myself, here are a couple suggestions.

Know what you want from her when you do confront her. You only have a small window when the A is exposed and she may feel bad and do things contrary to her self-interest out of guilt or shame or whatever.

You say that you want to avoid TT, but really it's inevitable. My STBXWW pretty much told me all the basic facts and some more in the first month, but as questions continued to come up, more kept coming out.

Here's what you need to prepare yourself for. She not only has had sex with the guy, but she has told him she loves him and bad-mouths you to him as a matter of routine. Sorry if that's a hard truth, but you seem to want to deny that they're having sex when everything points to it. And, as a generalization, women tend to fall emotionally for their affair partners before they get physical. I hope that's not the case with you, but prepare for the worst. I know when I found out my WW was saying I love you that it hurt just as much if not more than the sex itself.

When I found out, I didn't talk directly to the OM's spouse, but talked to her soon after. We have been allies, but it's pretty painful to talk to her. Since you don't know her, it may be hard for you to 'work together.'

You seem to be dealing pretty well with this. I was an absolute wreck. Good friends and exercise saved me. Sleeping pills helped too. Stay strong for yourself and your daughter.

Hi CO,

You are getting some good advice here and seem to handling things pretty well. But of course you have to since you are caring for the little ones at home with you.

I think you may have tipped your hand a bit when you spoke with your wife. It’s a lot of reading between the lines but she seems to have shown some remorse and tried to reassure you by calling more often than before. Seems like signs of a guilty conscious to me. This is a positive sign IMHO for a possible R if you should chose that route.

One thing is that you need to collect more evidence of the PA before you confront. The Semen detection kit is a good start but don't take a negative result as proof of no affair. Though it’s unlikely, it is possible your call may have stopped a physical encounter if your WW is truly remorseful. I sure wouldn't put my money on it but it is possible and I bet that is the exact story she would give you if you confronted now.

BTW she may wash the panties that she wore that night but semen will continue to discharge for a couple of days afterwards. She likely won't think of that. It’s sad that I know this type of crap.

Something you wrote struck me. You said she told you that:

Their project is essentially done, and he's apparently moving on to some other project for the company after this meeting (one which won't involve WW's division much).

First thing that comes to my mind is: "why is she all of a sudden telling you this?".

I think she knows you are suspicious and is starting to cover her tracks.

Don't let your guard down because he is magically going away. These aholes get of a bagging married women and he will be back.

Good luck to you

CO,

You are to be commended for maintaining your wits. Much good advice has been given to you but I can tell you are struggling hard to figure out what to do. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Based on what you have posted I regret that it is 99.99% likely your wife is having and has been having a PA with OM - they are not just good friends or co-workers. The .01% chance that it is platonic is not much to hang your hat on.

However, it does not appear that you have any conclusive and incontrovertible proof of a PA. In order to prepare for the worst you simply must have that. I would get it before contacting the other BS or any confrontation with WW.

If you love your wife - are you really willing to let her go to Europe knowing what is going on and not get the goods on them? The fact that the project is ending doesn't mean much and I know that I could not allow her to come back from such a trip and play coy acting like nothing is amiss while trying to wait for the next time they are together in an attempt to catch them.

I know you said the PI rates in Europe were prohibitive but have you exhausted all resources in that regard? Contact a local PI or divorce attorney and see what they would recommend. If you know the city/country, do you have friends (or have friends that may have friends in that city) that you could contact and see if they may have a solution for you. Do you have friends in local law enforcement that you could discuss this with - sometimes they may be able to call a counterpart in the city (even foreign) in question and request a favor - as much of a long shot as it may be - I have seen it happen and it worked very well and very inexpensively. They were able to get pictures and access to hotel video showing the wayward spouses together. It doesnt necessarily prove there was sex but the WS couldn't deny that they didn't spend every night together.

With more proof and information you gain power and canmaintain the upperhand. If OM is a bigshot in the company or is well off, he cannot afford to risk the financial ruin he may face if he loses his job, if his wife divorces him, or if CO sues him for alienation of affection. You do have some options available to you but you do need to figure out what you want. Do go see an attorney asap and understand what your options are in the worst case in the event of a divorce. Make certain you take the steps to get what you want and what would be best for your daughter if that event were to occur.

Lastly and most importantly, you must take care of yourself mentally and physically so that you can take care of your daughter. She may not know what is going on but she will sense the tension.

Good Luck - Be Strong.

PR

I think you may have tipped your hand a bit when you spoke with your wife. It’s a lot of reading between the lines but she seems to have shown some remorse and tried to reassure you by calling more often than before. Seems like signs of a guilty conscious to me. This is a positive sign IMHO for a possible R if you should chose that route.

It's possible. She's been calling more frequently than usual on her overseas trips. We haven't had any further "relationship discussions". I did take palerider's advice and backed off and told her not to worry, so as to not further any suspicion she might have.

One thing is that you need to collect more evidence of the PA before you confront. The Semen detection kit is a good start but don't take a negative result as proof of no affair. Though it’s unlikely, it is possible your call may have stopped a physical encounter if your WW is truly remorseful. I sure wouldn't put my money on it but it is possible and I bet that is the exact story she would give you if you confronted now.

It's really hard to know the situation. She called me on her cell and we talked on the phone at midnight (her timezone) for almost an hour. After our call, I waited 30 minutes and called her hotel room phone ("I forgot to tell you something..."). She answered, so she was at least in her own room last night.

Something you wrote struck me. You said she told you that:

Their project is essentially done, and he's apparently moving on to some other project for the company after this meeting (one which won't involve WW's division much).

First thing that comes to my mind is: "why is she all of a sudden telling you this?".

I think she knows you are suspicious and is starting to cover her tracks.

Well, I'm fairly familiar with the ongoings of her project. She didn't just tell me this, I knew already. She didn't specifically state that OM was moving on, but rather his group (which includes him). She is also moving on to another project. I know enough about the operations of her field of work that this is very likely true. It doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be further A opportunities, since she may need to travel to corp. headquarters for something in the future, for example.

I have the Checkmate kit. VAR is going in the car this afternoon. She gets back on Sunday. After reviewing the key logger on her computer, I think I have figured out a way to access her work email outside of using the Blackberry. I won't be able to try to log on until after she returns though (don't want to raise suspicion with IT dept. when she's known to be out of town).

I need a break from this.

All good advice. Just ((Hugs)) that you should find yourself here but good you did. If she ever says to you "It's not what you think it is" It is!!! Don't let yourself fall into Denial , the red flags are flying , big time.

Man hugs (((CO)))

I was just reading through this thread and wanted to comment on the composure your demonstrating...well done!

One thing about reaching out to BW; that her house is 3X the size of yours' and the probability that she works at / for a church is good, well, she just may decide that keeping her mouth shut vs confronting BH is the more prudent option, financially. Instead of being an aly of yours' she might instead camp with BH leaving your options limited.

Just a thought...

Just wanted to say hi and provide support.

I have read all four pages and you are doing well. Stay the course. You will intuitively know how to handle things when they truly come to light.

Peace brother.

CO

You really have to be careful and tactical right now.

You have WAY too much at risk.

I think you would be way better off with more behind your claim she’s having an affair. Based on what you post then I don’t doubt she is – but IMHO you need more simply to enhance your bargaining position (for lack of a better word) once you go to war.

Keep in mind the quality of evidence you need. Since infidelity won’t factor in a divorce (a very likely outcome from what’s going on) then you do not need legal quality evidence. You don’t even need enough to convince your wife. The ONLY factor any evidence has to really fulfill is convincing YOU.

But if you have hopes of avoiding divorce your evidence has to be good enough to survive exposure. That’s not legal quality but it has to be stronger than what you already have. The posts should mention sexually clear things. “I can’t wait to be with you” is not enough. You need “I can’t wait to touch your body”. You need recordings of conversations. You need something that makes THEM confess or admit the affair.

CO – one thing that is unavoidable is exposing the affair at work. Yep – I know that right now you fear she will lose her job if you expose but right now that worry has to take second place to your marriage. Or not… You see – if OM is a vice president and he’s having an affair with his junior he is breaking office etiquette in a serious way. If the company is aware he was doing your wife and you have proof they were aware then they will have serious worries about wrongful dismissal law suit if they fire your wife. The OM is in a very hot seat if the company is aware of the affair. To do this you need better evidence than you have now.

From your posts it’s clear that divorce isn’t what you want.

OK – let’s address that a bit here. If the absolute worst outcome from this scenario in your opinion is divorce then stop right now. If there is nothing you fear more than divorce you simply accept that your wife screws around and then arrange a hygiene and safe-sex practice.

CO – Once you accept and embrace one single fact you will gain IMMENSE power. To me this is the KEY to successfully setting up the environment where reconciliation becomes even possible. Let’s call this the First Rule of Bigger: Losing your spouse beats sharing her.

Then there is one hard fact you have to live with: It won’t get worse.

To put it bluntly: If your wife has given him 10 BJ’s to date then knowing they will be 15 before this is over isn’t going to be the big factor here. The emotional effort in keeping in the shadows while gathering your evidence will pay off tremendously. I think you NEED more evidence. Not to convince you or us – we all know whets going on. But you need it for those that don’t want to believe what’s going on.

What I fear could happen with what you have is this:

The OMW won’t accept your evidence. Shure she will confront her husband but he will write it off as you being nuts and/or your WW coming on to him.

If he goes to HR ahead of you and complains (even informally) that you are harassing his wife they could use the opportunity to dismiss your wife BEFORE there is any “evidence” of an affair. If she brings that up after being fired they could convincingly claim performance, cutbacks or whatever.

Bigger, hey thanks for your post. I think you are right. There are other email discussions I have between them, but they are all of a similar nature - innuendo, nothing overt or concrete. In one message, OM asks her about her tastes, and WW replies, "Some things I will have to say in person." It's very frustrating.

I think next week will be telling. VAR is in the car, tested, works well. I think I'll have a method to monitor her work emails much more aggressively without dealing with the Blackberry, so hopefully that will be fruitful.

Your post is full of good ideas, and I really like your First Rule.

Regarding her employment, I'm not too worried about her losing her job. She is by far the biggest reason for the success of their division. Interestingly, she has had other job offers, some of which she very nearly took in the past couple years (one in fact she accepted but then changed her mind). Makes me wonder if she is feeling the guilt by entertaining other offers.

Chopper,

You're doing great.

Be very careful about cracking into her shit on her work computer from home. Be sure to use proxies. Right?

Be very careful about cracking into her shit on her work computer from home. Be sure to use proxies. Right?

I'm pretty aware of the issues. Proxies are probably a bad idea in this situation, since you don't want to appear to be logging in from Latvia. From our home, well that would be a normal, expected thing (as long as she's not at work). I realize there is some risk, however.

OK, Facebook question (I don't use it and never had a desire to):

WW does have an account. It's used very rarely. I looked at her privacy settings, and they're all default, so I'm comfortable logging in there without her getting notified.

However, having no experience with FB, I'm wondering if other users can see if the account is online. I wouldn't want a friend or relative to say to WW, "I saw you on Facebook the other day," especially if she's never on it.

FB - reset her view as being offline.

The little box at the bottom - chat. Open it and choose "go offline" from the options tab.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 5:31 AM, April 2nd (Saturday)]

FB - reset her view as being offline.

Is that in the "chat" tab? Thanks. Want to do it as quickly as possible without fishing around.

I hope this comes out: