SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm so glad I found this forum filled with people that can relate to my problem. Where do I start?

Background: We've been a couple 18 years, married 15. We have a 4 year-old girl. We're both professionals in our respective fields, and financially we're fine and reasonably well off. Last year I quit my job for a number of reasons, including wanting to get away from the significant stress of my former job, spending more quality time as a father, and to support my wife in her job (which involves a moderate amount of domestic and global travel -- it was hard for her to travel before because of conflicts with my schedule and caring for our child). My intention was, and is, to go back to work, but that hasn't happened yet, primarily due to the fact that I'm so wracked with this ongoing problem that has paralyzed me to no end. Nevertheless, she is at present the breadwinner.

Our marriage has certainly not been perfect, I think in part because we generally have differing interests and both had busy schedules, but we've never had any really serious issues in the remote past. I love her to death, and she is very kind, sensitive, and outgoing. There was never a major problem with trust or jealousy, and an affair was the last thing on my mind. Frequency of sex has been a longstanding issue since D was born.

Mild Suspicion: A year ago, not long before I left my job, my wife showed me something of interest on her Blackberry phone. She then went to take a shower. I noticed an email on her phone from someone she collaborates with (a vice president, no less, who happens to be quite prominent in his field of work), something to the effect of asking her if she had a personal email address. I didn't think too much of it at the time, since she maintains friendships with many people she works with, and it would not be that unusual for her to discuss out-of-work things (movies, books, culture, etc.) with them on her non-work related email account. He is not based in our city, but across the country, but he travels here from time to time, and they also meet up in other cities for work.

A few weeks later I discovered a string of friendly emails on her personal email account between her and this guy. They were not terribly incriminating, but certainly raised my eyebrow:

OM: Thanks for the document. Did you attach yourself to it? That would be great, so I can enjoy you!

WW: I wish I could attach myself. Keep an eye for a package in the mail.

OM: Are you coming in the package? P.S. This place is not as fun because you are not here.

WW: I wish. Good night.

Other emails I found discussing movies (including the quality of the sex scenes, nothing explicit though), overseas places he'd like to show her, and so on. The conversations appeared to end there. In retrospect, I think they moved their conversations back on corporate email account instead of the personal one for some reason.

At this point, my guard was up. I installed a key logger on her home PC, but unfortunately she uses this rarely for work related communication, and her corporate email requires other authentications that would make it impossible for me to get access to that. Her Blackberry is locked with a password (required by her company), and I can't access phone logs since it's a company phone. Months went by and I was in the dark about whether this was just a-bit-too-friendly working relationship or my worst fear.

The "Hey, wait a minute" moment: Over time in the past year, I noticed her becoming very short with me. Things that never bothered her in the past were suddenly major annoyances. I was criticized repeatedly over finding a job, even though I was the primary person taking care of the domestic things at home, and enabling her to excel in her job without having the stress of juggling schedules/childcare. It was then that my self-confidence really crashed. I had to find out more about what was going on with her.

Suddenly last summer, another string of emails pop up on her personal email account:

OM: YOU are the best!

WW: Your YOUs (in your message) turn me on in a big way.

OM: In what way?

WW: In the best possible way. Big smile. Good night.

OM: Please be more descriptive.

WW: Details: My breathing quickens. My temperature rises. My heartbeat rockets. The rest...for later.

OM: LOL! You are really something.

OK, so I'm thinking this has to be at least an emotional affair (duh!). I have no proof of a physical one. I'm really floored now and in a pit of despair. I can't sleep, eat, or barely function. My heart pounds and I get dry mouth just thinking about it. She's had several work trips since, some of which I and child have traveled with her, and others where she goes alone. I don't know if he is present on all of these trips, but I know he is on some of them. Since the two of them are in different cities, travel/meet-ups are sporadic, coupled with limited access to her communication, it's been terribly hard to gather definitive proof of a PA.

The "Holy Crap!" moment: Last week, I managed to briefly get a hold of her Blackberry while it was unlocked. I found another series of emails that just sunk my heart:

WW: I am sad...I am patiently waiting for (our upcoming meeting overseas) so that I can get a big HUG.

OM: That's all you want?!

WW: I always knew you were a mind reader..I will think of more. A big sloppy X.

OM: I could say what I think about you!

WW: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Yesterday, she left for that upcoming overseas meeting, a week-long event. I am just devastated. I don't know what the hell to do next. I've been holding my cards close, hoping to discover proof of a PA, but I just don't know. Yes, I know the signs point to PA, but it's still circumstantial.

Today, we talked for a long time on the phone. I don't think I want her to know that I know yet, but I did say to her that I'm feeling so down because of the way she's been towards me in the past year, and that I feel our lines of communication have closed. I sensed a significant amount of guilt on her part. She became quite apologetic, even tearful, and said that when she returns she will work harder to be a better wife. I did ask her if her lack of affection toward me was the result of "anything else" I needed to know about. There was what seemed to be stunned silence for a moment. Then a denial. She's been calling me every few hours since then to check on me, not typical.

This is no doubt the hardest thing I've dealt with in my life. The mental pictures of this a**hole being there, and possibly being physical with her is consuming me. I hope I haven't revealed too much to her at this point. If I want to save my marriage, I want to do it right. I can't believe I'm stooping to this level, but I'm going out to get a semen test kit to have available on her return (thankfully I'm the household laundry guy). SO embarrassing....

I am not at all ready for a divorce in my mind at this moment. I still love her dearly, and I want to fight for our marriage and family. Maybe that will change, I dunno. There WILL be a confrontation, but I don't know when yet. I am still hoping for some evidence that will abolish the chance of denial and what I guess you guys call trickle truth (TT). I really don't know how she is going to react. I can't even imagine the pain that is going to come.

Sorry for the long first post. Any insights on where to proceed next is appreciated. If the test kit reveals something, then it's time to blow the lid off this thing. If it doesn't I guess I'm going to have to keep digging. I've been toying with the idea of posing as her from her personal email account, emailing him at some point to see if I can get PA evidence. Seems pretty risky though.

I am such a fool to have allowed things to get where they are. It's going to be a difficult week.

I don't have a lot of advice, because I am pretty new to this whole crappy thing too. But first, I want to say you are not a fool. The only thing you did was to trust the person that you loved and assume they would not do anything to hurt you. She is the fool for what she has done.

Whatever happens, it is not going to be easy. But hang in there, and you will get through it. Sometimes it may feel like you can't, but you are probably stronger than you ever realized.

Dont reveal your info..... Get your ducks lined up. Contact an attorney and know your rights and where exactly stand if it comes to a divorce. As the stay at home parent I would assume you would get primary custody, child support and maintainance. Double check with an attorney. Create a master plan in the event your D. Remember preperation does not mean its over. Also its recommended here to get as much info on OM as possible. If he is married inform his W. Inform the company as to whats going on. Nothing kills an illicit A. like a does of reality. Try and keep yourself together eat right and excercise. This is going to be a long and painfull few months for you. But played smart you can come out of this smelling like roses. Please keep posting and read the healing library. Other posters will be along with much needed help and advice. Good luck my friend. Im sorry your here. But your in the right place.

Hi, CO, and welcome to S.I. You have found a great place in which to process all that is happening to you. I would make the suggestion that you should take some time and visit the Healing Library. You will find a lot of good articles there that could be a source of clarity for you.

Right out of the gate, I must tell you that you are not a fool and repeat after me – THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT! All of us here have had issues with our relationships and own part of the pre-A problems, but in no way, shape or form does that ever justify another person to have an affair. That is a choice your wife has made, and you do not own that.

As you suspect, all the red flags here are pointing to a full blown PA. They have had too many opportunities to be together and rarely when this happens does “nothing” happen despite what you will be told. All too often we BS’s will hear “We are just friends…colleagues…acquaintances” only to find out that it is much more than that going on.

I’m curious as to the level of their working relationship. Are they supervisor/subordinate or do they work in differing areas of the company or in different companies? I raise this question because most big firms have strict non-fraternization policies and the fact she is the sole bread winner for your family could put your financial situation in great peril.

You are doing all the right things as far as gathering your evidence. The semen kit should put the proverbial nail into the coffin should it be positive as you (and most of us here will as well given what you’ve already said) suspect. What you must do is prepare yourself for that ultimate conclusion. It will hurt like no other pain in the world to know that they truly have been together.

Have you forwarded any of these emails to your own personal account? That would be something you should consider doing (then erasing the forwarded message from the sent file) so that you can print out the evidence seeing they’ve taken the affair underground. That might be because the OM’s spouse/SO may already be onto him, or others in the company may have become suspicious.

Be prepared for loads of trickle truth and outright lies. The more concrete evidence you have, the better.

What more do you know about this guy? Is there a wife and/or SO that needs to know about his behavior?

I’m so sorry you find yourself here, but know that we are here to help.

In the interim, please take care of yourself. Eat something – even if it’s only a meal a day (during my d-Day week, I ate 4 bananas all week), make sure you’re hydrated and get as much sleep as you can, even if it is for short times during the day.

Finally, I know you are torn about keeping this marriage in tact, but the fact is, you need to have good legal advice here being a SAHD. Get your legal ducks in a row before you confront her.

Others will be along with additional support. Know you’re not alone.

AJ’s MOM

[This message edited by ajsmom at 3:25 PM, March 29th (Tuesday)]

..((((CO))))..

you've explained your sitch very well and you have seen all the red flags..

..from what you have posted..all the signs are there for both an EA and PA..

..they have had all the opportunities to go all the way on this affair and they don't give any signs that they are holding back their feelings..

..you are on the right track to be gathering all the evidence you will need to expose this A..

..she will never expect you to do the semen test and it will give you all the proof if it shows positive+++

..realize that if the test is negative, she could still be giving oral sex to him and even anal, which may not show up on her panties for the test..

..you already have plenty of message history and changes in her behaviour to know an A is going on, only to what extent, is the question..

..so sorry you are here but you found the best place to get support and advice..

sending you strength for what is about to be revealed..sorry, but it does NOT look promising!

smy

Welcome, and good luck.

When you confront, she may be tearful and sorry at first. And she may stay that way--great. But if she gets angry, defensive, and starts blaming you, start looking for the secret cell phone.

If this guy is married, your best shot at ending this affair is to tell his wife (kindly, and provide what proof you have.) Do this without telling your wife ahead of time. 9 times out of 10, the guy will immediately dump your wife. This will wake your wife up to reality--this guy is a user. (Of course, he usually then tries to get your wife to "keep in touch" on the sly, so keep your eyes open.)

Sorry you are here.

[This message edited by I think I can at 3:41 PM, March 29th (Tuesday)]

Yes, blacklight test of her underwear, also will not work if they used a condom.

Eat right and drink plenty of liquids (just like for a cold).

This is not your fault in any way. Check your PM's, I am going to send you some directions on how you can back up all of her emails if they are webmail, so that she can not delete evidence later on.

I think you did give her the impression that you think SOMETHING is awry in your relationship. She now knows you are feeling it.

It certainly is an EA, based on the e-mails you've seen. The conversation you had with her that turned teary sent up a red flag with me. I hope I'm wrong but it seemed like guilt welling up after having crossed a line she knew was wrong. After the emotionally charged e-mails they have been together for a week...basically alone. Scary!

I think you should hang tight with what you know for the time being. See what happens after she returns. Check the tone of the e-mails AFTER she returns. That will give you MUCH info.

If you cannot access her phone consider a VAR hidden in her car. A long shot, I know given that she can talk and text while at work. But for 50 bucks it might reveal something.

The change in her attitude toward you in the last year throws out another red flag although it may be a declineing lack of respect for you as a man due to you becoming domestic. Sounds sexist but there is another thread here on S.I.that does address this issue.

IMO..Don't play your cards yet. Your "hand" isn't strong enough. However if evidence of an EA is all you need to know, you've got it. Personally, I would need to know if it just turned physical. Good Luck!

[This message edited by cuckhold at 3:43 PM, March 29th (Tuesday)]

(((ChoppingOnions)))

Welcome to SI. You have found the right place to bring these questions to.

And sadly, yes, you have all the red flags of an full blown affair happening. I am so so sorry.

When I found all the evidence I needed, I simply told my H - "I know all about OW" (who was someone that I knew). It's either me or her. If you love her, you need to go. If you are on the fence in anyway you need to go. I will give you a one time opportunity for reconciliation that is contingent on immediate no contact, full details and transparency and MC.

We are now about 11 months out from that terribly d-day. Our marriage is on a good path of reconciliation. I have spent hours here on SI seeking support and strength to carry through.

My heart goes out to you. I lasted 24 hours from the first email that I found. It was a productive 24 hours as at the time of my call to my H, I did have every email, attachment, all text messages, and her incoming voice mails. There was little left to the imagination. Hang in there...collect what you can. Hire a good private investigator for the rest. Get ready for the roller coaster ride that's coming by eating, exercising and sleeping as best as you can. Find some real life support that can help you walk through this.

I'm so so sorry that you have had the need to join all of us here on SI.

Why are you concerned with the physical proof? If you're not working I don't know that you have much to gain from a fault divorce. Confront her with what you have and insist on a polygraph. Living like you're living will age you 10 years in no time.

I'm so very sorry this is happening to you.

I wonder if she has been pushing you to get a job because she knows if you divorce, she will have to pay you alimony?

A difficult and personal question is how much information do I need to be able to determine what I need to do. There's no right answer, just what works for you.

You've enough information to suggest a worst case. An important question then is 'what will it take to confirm it's not the case?' Can (and will) I believe what my W says?

An anomymous invented phone call from a friend 'ask your wife about xxxx' might be an option for you to consider in seeking more information.

You could ask 'and there's nothing you need to tell me' next time she calls. And see what happens. The response last time was revealing.

You don't need to add any information in asking again. 'You've been just thinking about 'things'. (Don't hint at your sources. The anonymous call invents one.)

Perhaps you could suggest some family issues need to be changed and discussed on her return. That you plan to go job hunting (even if you're not) because it's time for you to do that.

Wow. Tried to take a nap (not sleeping well, wonder why) and come back to this. Thank you all for your support and responses. Will digest and respond. My posts will likely be a bit intermittent (meaning hours, not days) as I have D in tow.

I've been going through the Healing Library for a few days now, it's a nice resource to have.

Thanks again.

I have a bit of free time, it seems.

I have been investigating OM's details. OM is presumed to be married, but I have nothing concrete. Found a picture of his house online, and it's like 3 times the size of ours. Doubtful he's living alone there. Searched a bit for a name of OMw, no luck. I suppose I'll have to pay for that information.

I have his company and personal email addresses. Have home phone and office phone numbers. Can probably get cell number if I ever get a hand on that damn Blackberry again. I came upon what church he goes to (turned up in one of my obscure searches). My guess is he's a family man.

I have no reservations whatsoever about outing him to his (presumed existing) wife when the time comes.

He's an executive in the company, but does quite a bit of "hands on" work with the company's product. WW is not under his direct supervision, more collaborative in nature, but they do work closely together on their project.

As far as her emails go, I have saved all the ones from WW's personal account to a text file. Unfortunately, this is not their primary means of communication. On the rare instance I got the open Blackberry, I sat in the freaking garage in the middle of the night transcribing by hand the emails I could find (didn't want to forward them to me for fear of getting caught). Crazy. The "friendly" emails between them are no doubt being deleted by WW, as each time I've checked, only the last two or three are available. The Blackberry is 90% at her bedside at night lately, not surprisingly. Tried to surreptitiously eyeball the unlock password, no luck on that yet, but getting close.

I have a VAR luckily already from prior employment. I am doubtful I will gain much from that, but it's going in the car this week.

As for how far I want this investigation to go, I can't say. I think if I can find PA evidence in a reasonable amount of time, I'm going to continue to lay low, be watchful, and try to put on my happy face. Hopefully the events of today didn't drive things further underground. Going to avoid the probing questions for now.

I honestly doubt that she would want a breakup of our marriage, even if caught. There would be much shame involved on her part, and she is a pretty proud person. I could be wrong, but I'd say it's 85%, for this and many other reasons.

Thank you all for the tips, encouragement, and sharing your stories.

You're well ahead of the power curve here, and it's great that you found this forum prior to DDay. You'll find plenty of helpful advice here, many have already been given.

I can see that you're NOT going to make the same mistake myself and others have done: Confronting before you have incontrovertible evidence. As you have probably read, confronting too early only alerts them to take the affair further underground, making it that much harder to obtain any proof. You're already at a slight disadvantage since it appears that their work phones/email are their primary means of communication, which of course, they know is pretty much secure from you and possbily this OMs BW.

You may have to go the PI route, but see what you can uncover yourself. As for transcibing blackberry messages, how about mere taking pictures of them with a digital camera? Most digital cameras allow you to take close up pictures.

It's only after the A is exposed and killed, can any R be possible, IF that's what you are aiming for.

[This message edited by lordmayhem at 6:21 PM, March 29th (Tuesday)]

ChoppingOnions - what a great nic! My 2nd fave...1st is Burnt Toast! (what is it with the food thing?)

You are doing a great job keeping your cards close to the vest. Stay strong!

We tend to be twitchy on here, and figure with this story, the odds are it's gone to PA. Thing to do is assume it has.

Now you plan accordingly. There's no harm in consulting with numerous attorneys - pick the best ones!

Once you even consult with one, she can't hire due to conflict of interest. You can narrow her playing field and empower yourself with info at the same time. Sounds like a win.

What you will need to see in her if there's hope for true R (Reconciliation), is

- Remorse

- Transparency

- Honesty

- NC (No Contact)

There's your roadmap brother.

What you will need to see in her if there's hope for true R (Reconciliation), is

- Remorse

- Transparency

- Honesty

- NC (No Contact)

There's your roadmap brother.

This is good stuff. I know I will have to really prepare myself before confrontation. Filing this one.

I guess I'm feeling like burnt toast, chopping onions, and maybe, I dunno, squashed and mincemeat. Thanks for the chuckle, really needed it.

I honestly doubt that she would want a breakup of our marriage, even if caught.

It's what you individually and jointly decide.

So an important question for you to start thinking about is 'on what basis am I prepared to continue my M?'. Your answer and perception of pros and cons will change as events unfold.

And perhaps one for your W a little further down the track, 'why in the circumstances, does she think I'd want to stay M with her?' It's perhaps one way of asking what commitment she is prepared to make to you. And why you should believe and trust her (or not).

CO...i'm am very sorry you are here under these circumstances. However, as you are finding out, this is a great place to gain wisdom and support.

From the discoveries that you have already made, it seems pretty obvious that this is an EA and most likely a PA. I'm confused as to why you need more evidence???

....and why not confront now (over the phone if you have to) to possibly stop this from going PA???

IMO...the evidence is for you. I skimmed a few of the posts so maybe this was covered. Do you want the evidence to help you in a "fault" state??? If not, the more this A-hole puts his pathetic hands on your WW the harder it is going to be for you to reconcile your M.

Maybe the more experience SIers can chime in but, I'm a bit confused at the logic behind more evidence.

I am so very sorry.

JC

[This message edited by Just Crushed at 6:51 PM, March 29th (Tuesday)]

(((ChoppingOnions)))

(love your username!)

So sorry this has happened to you, I remember feeling like I was in some sort of alternate universe... running parallel to my real life, but everything wrong...

There are so many here who have walked this path ahead of you, you'll get incredible support and advice, there's always someone around who has BTDT.

Reading the email interaction between OM and your WS, it struck me that he's being very careful... saying things without saying anything to totally incriminate himself, whereas your W has thrown caution more to the wind so to speak.

He obviously has much at stake, of course not to say that you don't, but my thought is don't expect him to play fair.

While your WS is away, it might be prudent to consult the best D lawyers in town, then they cannot represent your WS. I'm not for one minute suggesting that D is inevitable, but, always better to be prepared and knowledge is power.

Your comment about being outside in the middle of the night hand-writing emails is so sad, please believe that although there may be tough times ahead, you will get through this, many many couples go on to have a far better marriage than they had before.

None of this is your fault, none of it.

ETD: EA or PA? assume the worst, they have the time and the opportunity, for some, that's all it takes.

[This message edited by hard_yards at 7:02 PM, March 29th (Tuesday)]