SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I is my opinion that Safeguard made a blanket statement that is both true and not true. Some OW/OM are predatory and some BS's get stuck in their need to focus anger and hatred on a party outside of their relationship.

IMO both things have happened in my tenure on the board. That's my opinion in my reading of threads over years.

If it is a phase in the process, some people work through it. Some people don't. Some people feed off that anger and cycle through it and never reach indifference. It happens. but who is going to come out and admit that? More often is going to be seen as an accusation of those poster who experienced the predator effect.

This is my opinion based on my time here. No more or less valid than anyone else on the board.

I once posted an unpopular topic about surprise pregnancies after d-day. Is it wrong to even pose the question that some couples/individuals use that as a shortcut to ensure R? It is touchy. Because there are real surprises too. But, again IMO, using pregnancy, the new child, has been used to shore up R and commitment to the marriage.

Is my posing the question an attack on anyone who had a HB child? I don't think so.

I don't know, but this thread reminded me of it.

In our case the A would not have happened at that time without the OW stroking my H's ego at a vulnerable time and making herself available. He was not "looking". But he also would have never had dealt with his lifelong issues and it likely would have happened at some other time. She was incidental, no one he would have "chosen".

He does not blame her. He realizes that her praise was excessive and she made herself available, but knows it was his boundaries that failed and his coping skills that were faulty. He acknowledges that she threatened him to keep it going but that he was the one that crossed that line. He thinks they were equally "sick and affected".

I don't hate her but pity her and do feel scorn for her. We were friendly and on Dday I did speak to her. Her excuse was that she was "lonely"!

He has changed in every possible way. I don't care what she has done.

I agree with the basis of your argument. I think it is super naive to think any AP force any WS into an A. I think trying to put the blame on AP is rugsweeping/sugarcoating the situation. I don't expect or need someone I don't know to share my morals, but my WH had made a promise not to do this.

And you have these stats where?

No stats, simply my perception, which is what a lot of the posts on this board are. Are you asking for stats simply due to my perception not lining up with yours? I have read many statements of BS wishing their WS would read, come to SI, go to counseling, do the work. The stats say somewhere between 30-60% of marriages will survive infidelity. All that means is they do not divorce. It does not mean there is true reconciliation. It means "not divorced". I do believe many, many WS are too broken to even care enough to want to change. Do you have stats showing how many couples "reconcile"?

Yes, they are better people if they do the hard work to change themselves. The OW in our case stalked and fished for my FWH for 8-9 years after he ended the affair. My FWH didn't fish or stalk the OW and stayed NC on his part. OW didn't change one bit. An unremorseful cumdumpster who tried to keep inserting itself into our marriage.

You could be right, but many people think we are all broken and none are better than the other. Are we better than the person standing next to us in the grocery line, or are we simply broken and damaged in different ways?

I could not say. It is a large part of what I am struggling with. I would like to believe I am better than a WS or AP, perhaps I am simply damaging to society in a different manner, or one that is easier to hide. Hell if I know.

No stats, simply my perception, which is what a lot of the posts on this board are.

Well, than maybe you should say it is my perception and not make it sound like a factual statement. And, your perception from what? The 40,000 something members here? Kind of a skewed sampling.

Do you have stats showing how many couples "reconcile"?

Nope, I don't, but I didn't make a statement like yours, either.

I give great kudos to the ones who do, but it does not make them better than the person they stepped out with.

You didn't say does this make them a better person than a person standing next to them in the grocery line. You specifically said this doesn't make them better than the person they stepped out with. And, imo, yes, if they have done the work and the AP is an unremorseful cumdumpster still, yes they are better.

The OW is not the problem!

I agree with the premise of this thread. We live in a fairly large city. I bet there are about a thousand guys trolling the bars and dance clubs every weekend who are just like my WW's fAP. They are a dime a dozen. I always took it for granted that there were plenty of broken men who would sleep with my wife. Just never thought she'd give one of them the opportunity.

Is my wife's OM a predator? Maybe. A scavenger is a more accurate term. Just like the African safari, there's plenty of scavengers out there in the human world looking for easy kills. It's up to us and our spouses to figure out why they were easy prey for lowlifes. There will always be lowlifes.

I agree that our spouses are the problem. It's normal IMO to hate the OM/OW, but it really is a total waste of psychic energy.

I agree with the basis of your argument. I think it is super naive to think any AP force any WS into an A. I think trying to put the blame on AP is rugsweeping/sugarcoating the situation. I don't expect or need someone I don't know to share my morals, but my WH had made a promise not to do this.

DITTO!

I AM A BS...and it is disturbing to hear a BS say "OW/OM knew WH/WW was married". I always think well damn...did WH/WW attend their wedding? Did they not know they were married? I do however understand that this projection is a part of what I call the denial to recovery process.

My personal feeling is that no matter how sexy, alluring or predatory another woman is - it is MY HUSBAND responsibility to safeguard OUR MARRIAGE, our family and MY heart that I GAVE to HIM!

I don't think it is appropriate to accuse Safeguared of being an OW/OM because she feel this way. I am sure others feel this way they just have not verbalized it because of the nature of the forum.

[This message edited by thewife0404 at 4:14 PM, September 28th (Saturday)]

I agree with you "the wife", and others with a similar viewpoint.

I'm not an AP, nor a BS, just a casual observer here, but in my mind, it shouldn't matter if someone strolls by someone in a bathing suit, strips down in front of them, propositions them, offers sex on a platter, etc., it's the married person's responsibility to just say NO, period. Is that totally unrealistic of me to think?? If the married person said no, the affair would never happen. I suppose though, this only works if one person is married, if they both are, I'm not sure...I guess it would come down to whoever is doing the propositioning should be shut down from the get-go, no thanks, done deal, no affair. I tend to think in black and whites though.

My gut feeling upon reading your initial post and your snarky responses to BSes who dared to counter your assumptions was that you have a real problem. SisterMilkshake asked you what you are upset about, and you haven't answered her.

IMHO, it is healthier to hate AP's, OW, OM, etc. than fellow BS'es.

This forum is to help people recover, not tear them down farther.

HBH

Redrock: Thanks for your thoughts.

I didn't post: "I can't believe the dumb ass BS's can't see that their WS's are losers."

That's not, at all how I was feeling, thinking, or what I was trying to express.

I feel like that's how some people are trying to re-frame the post though. (In some cases to the point of, "Me thinks they do protest to much!).

I AM a BS! I have just noticed that there are certain emotional *Tar Pits* (like the pregnancy one, you mentioned, yup...), that many BS's can get stuck in.

I wanted to see if others were seeing that same pattern. (it seemed to me, to be cropping up a LOT!)

We all view currant events through the filter of our past experiences... I didn't think I could be the only one noticing this.

There were some really thoughtful, insightful comments posted in this thread.

I appreciate all the

view points expressed. There is so much we can learn from each other!

Thank you to everyone who chimed in. My intent was never a malicious one.

@Hurtbut hopeful,

I didn't answer Sisters question, because she has no basis on which she could have formed the opinion that I am "angry". Just because someone questions the Status Quo, does not make them an angry and accusatory.

Geeeze Louise!

Well, than maybe you should say it is my perception and not make it sound like a factual statement. And, your perception from what? The 40,000 something members here? Kind of a skewed sampling.

I am sorry, I disagree. I do not believe it is necessary to qualify each post I make with "in my opinion or it is my perception". Most posts made on SI are opinions and perceptions of individual members and not scientific facts that need bibliographies, so we will need to agree to disagree regarding that. My perceptions is based on reading here and many other blogs, psychology sites and forums about infidelity. It is not a single view perception.

You didn't say does this make them a better person than a person standing next to them in the grocery line. You specifically said this doesn't make them better than the person they stepped out with. And, imo, yes, if they have done the work and the AP is an unremorseful cumdumpster still, yes they are better.

Perhaps, or perhaps the APs have worked in the past on other parts of themselves that WS have not. Perhaps they are not remorseful about their affair with a WS, but they are remorseful about other areas of their life. Perhaps they are remorseful about nothing.

I am trying to decide what is mine to judge and what is not. Do I judge and name call an unremorseful WS and forget about the plank in my eye? I have been exacting revenge for a long time and perhaps it was acceptable because of who it was against, but if there is Karma, is the way I've gone about revenge good or bad, and what am I reaping?

Does Karma care who we judge and why, or simply that we judge while we look away from our sins? Are my sins "more" acceptable because they are not the atrocity of infidelity?

As you can see, I have many thoughts to dig through. I have judged for a long time, and I am now questioning if the judgments are healthy and truthful.

I philosophically understand shifting the hate and blame to the AP as to make it easier to R with the WS. It is hard to R with somebody you hate and consider a cumdumpster. BTW, I liked that particular nickname, I called the man's AP that from the erotic website many times. I went as far as to put it in letter(s) I mailed. She in turn, showed me compassion and kindness, and never once called me a name. So yes, I wrestle with a blanket idea that anyone of us is better even than an unremorseful WS or AP.

Perhaps she fucked with my head.