SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

MrsRB

I have no time to respond now but want shortly say one thing. I am maybe going here on a limb because of other BH but no a revenge affair is no better than any other affair. Some would say even worse and I can understand why? Now as he did the same he is in no better position than you. By the way, you should not be o.k. with it. You are in no way hypocrite in thinking it hurts you and it's not o.k. What can make it eventually hypocrite it's the way you respond to it and your attitude. Not the need to take care of yourself. So, take care of yourself. There are healthy and unhealthy ways to do it. Chose and feed the healthy ones when doing so. I am sorry he went this self destructive path. One day he will realize this. I will later address the other issues

I suggest a 180. You are both MH now. I did a 180 by actually leaving my home for 40 days. He thought I would file, I did make calls but pulled away to figure out what I needed to do.

You may not can leave but 180 is possible in house. It is for YOU!

It was a risk, my leaving, but I own the house as I got it as inher

Inheritance recently.

I had to be willing to end the marriage to save it.

You are a MH now.

Different ballgame.

Read in I can relate about MH and study the 180.

It is quite empowering. Power is what you need to find most right now.

BH here. I have defended RB, at least in my mind, when he was being found guilty without a trial or defence, hung, drawn quartered, tarred and feathered, etc. IMO there wasn't any evidence that he was, in fact, cheating and a lot of projection was going on. I don't remember if I posted this or if I was just thinking it.

If he is having sex with OBS both of them are committing adultery. I presume you are still married. He is still carrying on somewhat of a relationship with you. Your adultery does not give him a free pass just like whatever he did in your marriage pre A did not give yopu justification.

I can understand that you may feel like a hypocrite. What is good for the goose is good for the gander thought process. He is, as well. He experienced the pain of your adultery as being very traumatic but is willing to do the same to you. In my mind that makes him a hypocrite. By definition you are MH. He doesn't have the "moral high ground". You can't R when one of you is still committing adultery, secretively or blatantly. What he is doing is totally on him as it is on OBS.

Keep working on yourself - for you.

His cheating is unacceptable and you have to say so, but your words may have to be a little more gentle, acknowledging your own past and actions, but still firm that cheating is unacceptable in a marriage. You tell him you were wrong, maybe give an analogy, a parent may have smoked, but still tells her child not to smoke. It is wrong. Even though you have not modeled it yourself, you are trying to rectify that with your present and future actions.

Do as I say, not as I did, is weak, but it's all you've got. My kids know some of the stuff I've done, and I tell my kids don't do what I did, and tell them why it's wrong and why I was wrong. With my kids, I can get a little preachy, that might be tougher to pull that off with a husband. It's a tough talk, but it's one I think you need to have.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 4:07 PM, February 27th (Saturday)]

I have been having a particularly difficult day today, and I've come here looking for some help and advise. TRB and the OBS are sleeping together. It started a few days after D-Day and I found out a few weeks after that. I have tried to be ok with this.

I understand the place you're coming from but I don't think it's healthy – neither for you nor for him. In fact, it's harmful for both of you. You don't have to be o.k. with that or put up with this.

And most times, I am able to push the thought away and focus on working on myself.

The latter is correct, concentrate on yourself and becoming a better person. As with the former you should not let this influence or affect your work but as I said you should not put up with this and pretend it is ok. It's not.

They met up yesterday and had sex and I don't know why this time it has affected me so much and I cannot get the thought of them out of my head.

It affects you because you're a human being that has feelings too. If you suppress your feelings out of guilt it won't help you and it's not healthy. The nature of those things is that they do come to the surface no matter how you suppress them and normally at times you do not expect it at all

The fact that it hurts me makes me feel like a hypocrite. How can I have the right to say anything to him, when I have done much worse? He infact had the decency to tell me about it himself, unlike the lies and deceit that I was living.

I addressed it above. You are in no way hypocrite in thinking it hurts you and it's not o.k. What can make it eventually a hypocrite reaction it's the way you respond to it and your attitude. Not the need to take care of yourself. So, take care of yourself. There are healthy and unhealthy ways to do it. Chose and feed the healthy ones when doing so.

Also, I broke any commitment that we had when I entered into my A. So he and the OBS are actually free to do whatever they please since they are not bound by any commitments to their spouses.

That is not true. He's still legally married to you and whether he likes it or not, whether wants it or not, whether sees it or not, he's still married to you, has responsibilities and thus committing adultery. The same is valid for the other BS too.

I know he and OBS both agree on this

Look at adultery as a kind of (emotional) theft. In the same way as there is no honor and thrust between two thieves, there is no honor and thrust between the two AP's. What your husband and his AP (other BS) tell themselves is irrelevant. They still commit adultery

He says he will continue sleeping with her as long as he feels like it.

Well, again, in my opinion he tries to "pay you back" by throwing his affair in your face in the same way as you committed your affair under his nose (in his face). Doesn't excuse it and does not make it better. All I can see here is vengeance and revenge. All I have said to you is now valid for him and I would say the same if he would now seek advice. His actions are not justified by your affair, it does not give him any right to do so and it's not an excuse. Once a betrayed spouse does not resort to physical abuse or revenge affair I would almost automatically take the side of the betrayed spouse. Yet, once he/she engages in revenge affair, I will never excuse those actions.

I know all this, and I want to be ok with him doing this. know I have no right to stop him and he is free to do whatever he wants. It makes me understand to some degree how he would have felt finding out about my A. I know what I am feeling is not even a quarter of what he is going through. I hate that I am such a hypocrite. But it hurts so much. How do I control these thoughts?

I disagree with you. I can suggest you a change in perspective. Think about this statement as an extension of your old mindset that could justify an affair. Then change it. You are more than o.k. not to agree with it. Yet, if you change your perspective (thought, mindset and narrative) and do not justify affairs anymore, neither yours nor his, you must be motivated by compassion and empathy for both of you (otherwise it would look like arrogance, hypocrisy and you being inauthentic and uncaring). Compassion and empathy here are keywords in this specific situation. Doing so would be also an antidote to your actions as to doing it under his nose without giving any consideration to the harm it caused him. I know it is hard but once again it's what I said above: you concentrate on becoming a better person, you work on yourself, you do not let his actions affect your path and self growth but you do acknowledge your part (without allowing further harm to yourself) and you're also showing compassion and grace.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 7:54 AM, February 28th (Sunday)]

MrsRB,

I am so sorry he is doing this. As others have said, it is wrong, unacceptable and cruel (regardless of your affair). He cannot blame you for his actions. It is false. And you do not have to tolerate it. You may have to be careful in how you discuss it, but you should not feel compelled to let him continue.

Now, the key question for you is, what do you want? Despite his current adultery and betrayal of your marriage (because that is, unequivocally, what it is), are you still committed to a marriage with him? Do you still want to remain married to him? Your answer should direct what you do from here on out. If you do, let him know, but ask him to stop. If he is not willing, then perhaps you may not have a choice in the matter and your marriage might be over.

Whatever happens, please know his actions are not okay. I get his feelings, but it doesn't make it right. There are many BS's on this site, myself included, who've had ample opportunity to cheat post DDay and have not. Just because our spouse has doesn't make it okay that we should as well.

There is a thread for MadHatters in the I Can Relate forum. Please check it out, it might be helpful.

I feel I have to defend RB and his actions to some extent here. This man is NOT the same man that occupied his body 4 months ago. By her own words, MRB described RB as a happy soul who loved her with all his heart. He had a life he loved and a wife he adored and who was the center and beat of his heart. That heart now is just a blob of hurt and maybe silent rage. It was ripped from his chest, stomped on and kicked across the room. I would dare say that when he closes his eyes the first thing his mind sees is MRB having sex with the OM. If he lives to be a 100 years old,that is something he will never forget. That image is what is fueling his actions. He does not view having sex with the OMW as cheating. He sees it as poetic justice. He gets to strike back at his wife and the OM with one blow. This man, by MRB words, said he would never trust anyone again and wanted to become like her so as to protect himself from future suffering. He is just acting out those words. MRB said she had killed her marriage and KILLED THE MAN HER HUSBAND USE TO BE. She is so right. He is not the same man he was 4 months ago. He is not thinking like the same man nor acting like the same man.I fear that man may never return and if he does it will be years down the road. He may even feel justified in his actions because MRB said he stated that he didn't know if he wanted to reconcile nor would he ever trust or love her again. It appears that having sex with the OMW is not affecting his moral compass since he continues to do so. To make it simple, he is blind with hurt and rage. I think you could pull a 180 on him and he might not even notice. Probably, to him, the marriage is dead and only just a piece of worthless paper. As you can tell by my user name I have been around this world for a while. I have never been in this situation but I have been where my heart hurt so bad and I was in such a rage that I was capable of almost anything without remorse. Just be aware that the RB of today is not the RB of 4 months ago. The way he acts, the way he thinks, the way he feels is totally, totally different. They are two different people. I wish you well MRB and I really hope that the love returns and you and he can be happy again someday.That's just my 2 cents worth.

anoldlion,

First, my personal opinion is that this thread is the wrong place for you to defend RB. It's the wayward forum and the purpose is to support MrsRB in helping her become a better person, address the things she's seeking help with, and give constructive 2x4's where necessary. That's it. IMO, your post in its ferociousness is inappropriate for this forum.

Second, wrong! Wrong! Wrong! There is never an excuse for cheating. It was wrong for MrsRB and now, wrong for RB as well. Plain and simple. Personal character and integrity is not contingent upon someone else's actions. Either you act accordingly or you do not. While it is somewhat understandable, or better said, explainable, given the range of emotions, the behavior is wrong.

Many of us here are BS's. That does not give us license to go betray our marriages as a result.

MrsRB - Please do not let anyone tell you his behavior is okay. You know your wasn't. Neither is his.

[This message edited by Walloped at 7:39 PM, February 28th (Sunday)]

I feel I have to defend RB and his actions to some extent here. This man is NOT the same man that occupied his body 4 months ago. By her own words, MRB described RB as a happy soul who loved her with all his heart. He had a life he loved and a wife he adored and who was the center and beat of his heart. That heart now is just a blob of hurt and maybe silent rage. It was ripped from his chest, stomped on and kicked across the room. I would dare say that when he closes his eyes the first thing his mind sees is MRB having sex with the OM. If he lives to be a 100 years old,that is something he will never forget. That image is what is fueling his actions. He does not view having sex with the OMW as cheating. He sees it as poetic justice. He gets to strike back at his wife and the OM with one blow. This man, by MRB words, said he would never trust anyone again and wanted to become like her so as to protect himself from future suffering. He is just acting out those words. MRB said she had killed her marriage and KILLED THE MAN HER HUSBAND USE TO BE. She is so right. He is not the same man he was 4 months ago. He is not thinking like the same man nor acting like the same man.I fear that man may never return and if he does it will be years down the road. He may even feel justified in his actions because MRB said he stated that he didn't know if he wanted to reconcile nor would he ever trust or love her again. It appears that having sex with the OMW is not affecting his moral compass since he continues to do so. To make it simple, he is blind with hurt and rage. I think you could pull a 180 on him and he might not even notice. Probably, to him, the marriage is dead and only just a piece of worthless paper. As you can tell by my user name I have been around this world for a while. I have never been in this situation but I have been where my heart hurt so bad and I was in such a rage that I was capable of almost anything without remorse. Just be aware that the RB of today is not the RB of 4 months ago. The way he acts, the way he thinks, the way he feels is totally, totally different. They are two different people. I wish you well MRB and I really hope that the love returns and you and he can be happy again someday.That's just my 2 cents worth.

This is the typical wayward thinking and this is exactly where RB is right now. Justifications are unendless yet the truth always remains the same. Him being hurt does not give him a free pass to hurt others. And as ignorance of the law does not exempt from punishment, in the same way him being blind does not mean he can do whatever he wants and run away from his responsibilities. Besides, he is not blind but knows the exact meaning of his actions as he was himself at the receiving end of this all. Being betrayed does not mean you can stop abide by the rules and do whatever you want.

MrsRB, you did wrong, very wrong, and I only touched the tip of the iceberg. Yet, RB is right now in no better place then you were before. He has put himself there by his own actions and it is him and only him that is accountable for that. Ignore any advice which tries to put the blame on his cheating on you as you can't put the blame of your cheating on anyone else. Again, you did wrong, very wrong, yet that does not give him any right to do whatever comes to his mind and harm other people. As a society we've moved beyond the ideal of an eye for an eye. If this would be the rule then most probably all of the people in the world would become blind at some point.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 5:19 PM, February 28th (Sunday)]

Walloped:

First of all let me apologize for creating disruption and havoc.

What I said about RB was put here because here is where he was drawing the flak and comments. Second you will not find anywhere where I said what he was doing was right or that I approved of his actions. I fully agree that cheating is never right. What I was saying is that the man who was cheated on and the man who is now cheating are two different people that have occupied the same body but do not have the same mind set. Everyone does not react to the same situation in the same way. I think that 5 months ago if you had told RB what his actions would be, he would have thought you were crazy. You are right, no one has a license to cheat. Like I said, I have never been in this situation, I do not approve of his actions but I do understand his thought process. His moral compass is shot and he is not as strong as you were. One day he probably regret his actions but his mind is so screwed up right now that he can't see beyond the hurt. You were blessed because you were able to see beyond the hurt.

MrSpock

What I wrote may sound like the words of a wayward spouse but I have to burst your bubble. I have been in love with and married to the same woman for longer than you have been alive and we are just as happy today as we have ever been. I was a warrior for 45 years and take it from me you can have enough hurt and rage that it will blind you and affect your actions without thought of the future. Didn't say it was right. It's like being shot at. Some people try to find a safe place and some just stand up and shoot back.

MRB

Do not let life defeat you. Everyone, and I mean everyone, makes horrible mistakes that they wish they could take back. I've made my share and wish I could go back and have a do over, but I can't. Start with today and make everyday just a little better for you. I wish you well.

Anoldlion

First of all, you even haven't been to that situation according to your own statement, so cultivate a little humility to learn from those who were. It seems age didn't do it for you. Second, you maybe were 45 years a soldier in the military so was I for the bigger part of my lfe. I know one or two things about being in extreme situations. And buried so many friends that even in the next life time you wouldn't be able to imagine! You are the last person on earth to teach and lecture me about battlefields, being under fire, courage and keeping one owns morality under those circumstances. And, yes, there are those cowards (talking in general and do not specifically mean you) who in this situation will commit atrocities in the name of "self-defense", hurt and rage and those who under those extreme situations are brave enough to keep their morals and eventually even retire with medals, dignity and honor.

You are the best evidence that time alone is not enough to cultivate all of those virtues. Being old, unfortunately, does not guaranty having proper wisdom and intact morals. RB is no more a victim but a perpetrator. His victimhood does not put him above morality and other human beings. His moral compass is also not shot as it's still him who can chose whether to react morally or without any morals (in any given situation). Morals are not dependent on others but solely on our own action. There are a lot of examples for this and yours is one of them. It's not the time or age that is important but what you do with it until you reach that age. I'm happy to belong to the latter and not as you to the former one. Unfortunately, we have too many of them in the military. And no he was no more under fire, so his shooting is not in self-defense, whether to himself or to his comrades, but with the mere aim of revenge and cruelty. In fact, he shot himself.

MrsRB, you seem to be on a correct path of healing and as I said ignore any of those advices like here that will set you back and encourage you to adopt the wayward mindset again. RB is not acting now in self-defense or even self-care. His only aim now is revenge. Even if you are a BS there is no moral, dignity and integrity in it and you do not need to put up with this and excuse his behavior like some posters on a very subtle way do

Second you will not find anywhere where I said what he was doing was right or that I approved of his actions.

This is where you said it

I feel I have to defend RB and his actions to some extent here.

Which contradicts the first statement and thus is also not true. And it's morally wrong. You didn't say you can understand where he's coming from, his pain or so on, but that you defend him. Big difference! It also seems to me that you haven't learned from your past experiences and continue the same wrong attitude and in this case project it on something different. As walloped said it doesn't help and does not belong to this thread and forum. If you can't see beyond your hurt, rage and anger (whatever it is) or at least put it aside for a moment, then you are in no place to help others

[This message edited by MrSpock at 12:48 AM, February 29th (Monday)]

@ anoldlion

i understand what you are saying. the difference between the reasons of mrsRB and mrRB actions are huge.

mrsRB did not have the heartbreak of infidelity forcing her to do what she did. by her own words and the thread by mrRB they had a good marriage. there was no reason for the infidelity. none. yet there it was.

mrRB had his whole world turned upside down. anoldlion is right, the mrRB right now is not the same mrRB of six months ago. mrRB is shell shocked and shattered. his entire world no longer makes sense. the person he trusted the most the person he needs right now is no longer available. the shoulder he needs to lean on was given up to infidelity. mrRB is broken and alone. i understand why he is doing what he is doing.

i'm not saying it is right. infidelity is never right.... ever...

but i understand why mrRB is acting the way he is. if people don't understand this action by mrRB that's okay. but to turn on mrRB or turning on anoldlion for posting his view on this horrible mess is not helping anyone either. i was under the impression that these forums were for gaining an understanding of both sides of the infidelity coin. and through understanding the hope for a new future can be grown. if we choose to ignore all facets of infidelity, even the real ugly ones we do no one any service.

again infidelity by either party is wrong.

@MrsRB

you are struggling with this infidelity because on some level you understand the pain driving the actions of both mrRB and the other betrayed spouse. understand that any infidelity is not okay. not by you, not by your affair partner, not by mrRB, and not by the other betrayed spouse. yours and mrRB marriage is broken. it was shattered the first time you and the affair partner flirted. only you and mrRB can put the pieces together again, if that is what you want. i would no contact the other couple and i would never allow any couple or single that close to the marriage again. start there with a boundary. do you think you and mrRB can build on that?

NSL

I was under the impression that these forums were for gaining an understanding of both sides of the infidelity coin.

NSL, no understanding is gained when there is no acknowledgment of our own choices and responsibilities. If someone steals my money, it doesn't give me any right to break in this person's house to steal something back. In the same way, the fact he was cheated on, does not give him any right to cheat in return. We can understand the pain, we can feel compassion, which I do in regard to RB, yet it has nothing to do with the wisdom gained from excusing his actions or understanding them. Having compassion, yes; understanding and defending his action, no!

and through understanding the hope for a new future can be grown. if we choose to ignore all facets of infidelity, even the real ugly ones we do no one any service.

We do not ignore any facts, facets or actions of infidelity. Neither her nor his! We addressed MrsRB's part in many post and it was not what she wanted to hear. I don't think the thread was easy for her. Now, we do the same with him. When his responsibility is not acknowledged it is then that we dismiss important facets of infidelity and it would do only a disservice. The un-endless cycle or revenge and retaliation would not solve their problem. They need something different.

A question:

If TRB would post now as a MH what would be your response and advice. Would you tell him as Anoldlion did that you defend his actions to "some extent" or would you completely disapprove them?

[This message edited by MrSpock at 12:49 AM, February 29th (Monday)]

nosmilesleft

Finally someone understands what I was trying to convey. I was not in favor of or excusing RB's infidelity. I was trying to say that someone that has had his life crushed does not think, feel or act like a normal rational person. What he did is not less wrong than what his wife did. I am not defending him. I am pointing at his mental state.

MrSpock

Wow. You sure can embellish and make character judgements based on some comments and an example. I'm not going to debate with you but I will say this. My moral compass and courage is intact. My Honor, Integrity, Loyalty, and Commitment have never been questioned and are above reproach. And I would never question someone else's unless I was absolutely sure.

[This message edited by anoldlion at 12:40 AM, February 29th (Monday)]

@ MrSpock

If TRB would post now as a MH what would be your response and advice. Would you tell him as Anoldlion did that you defend his actions to "some extent" or would you completly disapprove them?

you missed the part of my post where i wrote: infidelity is never right.... ever...

in order to help someone you have to understand why they did what they did. isn't that the mantra of the wayward threads?

well, mrRB needs to understand his why too.

just because i say i understand why mrRB did what he did is not the same as saying i condone the action.

NSL

you missed the part of my post where i wrote: infidelity is never right.... ever...

I didn't miss it. It just that you send a contradicting massage by saying that you understand his actions (=doing). I do have compassion with him and understand his pain. I also told MrsRB, that whatever she does, compassion and empathy towards her husband (and herself) are keywords here. I'm not numb to RB pain. Yet, there is no excuse for his actions (=understanding what he's doing). It is a very subtle and intricate use of language to send exactly that message!

in order to help someone you have to understand why they did what they did. isn't that the mantra of the wayward threads?

It is; only since when the why has to do with someone else's actions. Never! If he couldn't stay with her without cheating in return, then he could have divorced her. There was another option to that cheating. He chose between them. It has nothing to do with his wife's actions, but most probably with him wanting to take revenge. This is his and only his responsibility and the why's he's looking for are only withinn himself. There is nothing to understand as to his actions and in regard to the choices that he made.

well, mrRB needs to understand his why too.

Correct! I agree with you here. And by giving him a notion that it has something to do with his wife's action no matter how horrible they are is deluding him furthermore.

just because i say i understand why mrRB did what he did is not the same as saying i condone the action.

Again, there is first of all a difference between understanding and defending. What was first mentioned was not the understanding but that he was defended in his actions. I pointed it out above by bringing the exact passage. The tone changed only as me and walloped has pointed this out. Besides, there is also a big difference in understanding how a person (technically) can come to such a place and "understanding the thought process" (essentially). In the bottom line, I have a lot of compassion with him as a person; I have zero understanding and tolerance with his actions.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 5:39 AM, February 29th (Monday)]

MrsRB, thank you for sharing your experience and insights with us. I am a BW and your candid honesty has been very helpful for me. While no two affairs are alike, your thought processes and answers to the questions flung your way have given me some valuable insight into the process my WW is going through. I now see the direction I will need to see in her self-examination of the questions "why?" and "how could you?" as we move through the one-step-forward-two-steps-back work of healing and repair.

Thank you. And I am so very sorry to read that you now have this new twist on a very stressful and difficult situation to deal with.

Edited to add:

I have just reread TRB's post ... and feel strangely that he has now cheated on everyone who has been trying to help him. His anger and revenge feelings come through more now that I know he has acted on them. I couldn't agree more with others who have said you do not have to accept this. You are now also a BS and as such, you have needs, pain, and new feelings to deal with. I hope that somehow TRB can wake from this horrible fog he is now in, and see that it isn't they way to happiness . . . or anything positive for that matter. Hugs to you . . . both of you.

[This message edited by OneInTheSame at 1:35 AM, February 29th (Monday)]

Attention all,

Thank you.

So, what do you intend to do? Will you work for this knowing he has cheated or will you draw a hard line? This situation has to be really hard for you. To stay with someone that intentionally caused you pain through revenge is (IMO) so different than what some of us did just out of selfishness (even though you can say we intentionally caused pain too to get what we wanted). Do you give reconciliation a chance, because he clearly could not through his pain? Do you give it from a place of understanding that he most likely never would have taken this road if he wasn't emotionally pushed towards this. Yeah, I really don't want to argue about taking responsibility for our own actions and reactions. You can argue all day. The point still remains a challenge of his character was presented and even though he didn't create the situation, he is responsible for how he reacted to it. Yes, I understand why he did it. He also probably did it to get his masculinity back as well, not just solely revenge. So are you capable of giving what he could not?

For the record, I don't think how you conducted the sexual experiences was a malicious attack on your husband. I just think it was the best way for you to get a high. It is like choosing some hard core drug over weed. It sounds more like an adrenaline junkie pushing the limits because you grew immune to a basic rush to me.

[This message edited by Zugzwang at 9:01 AM, February 29th (Monday)]

Mrs.Rb...I am a MH. And like you, I was unfaithful first. I am sorry you are here. In the grand scheme of things, while you may have contributed to Mr.RB's vulnerability, it is HIS moral code that caused him to break when he was vulnerable. I hope he will eventually take responsibility for that.

Also, you are absolutely not a hypocrite for hurting too. Here is my MH analogy...if my husband deliberately stepped on my toe, it would hurt. If I got mad and turned around and purposefully stepped on his, would it not hurt him just bc he hurt me first? Of course not!! They both hurt!!

I wish and hope that the two of you find your way out of this mess to a place of peace again, whether that means together or separate.