SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sorry I've been away for most of the day. It's my son's birthday and we chilled together.

Directly to your key point to me, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things, but that doesn't mean you ignore them either. Look, we are not talking about an action here. We are talking about repeated behavior, during her time with you and with others. That's a character flaw. This is who she is. It's not that she did something wrong once, twice or twenty times and you should simply turn the cheek. If that was the case, and she was truly remorseful, I'd say have at it. I rarely recommend a course of action so vehemently. But this is a different level. I don't know that she can possibly be remorseful, because this is who she is. She may feel regret. She may be sad that you are hurting because of her actions. But remorseful is a whole other ball of wax, and it's an absolute necessity for reconciliation. And I don't see how you can trust that she can feel that way.

I'll say something else. Why are you getting posts telling you to divorce her or seek an annulment? Because this is the JFO forum. Where people come when they just found out one of the most heartbreaking and painful things of their lives. And so folks who have gone through it and have received help here pay it forward. And the way we do that is by giving advice we feel will best help the Betrayed Spouse. We protect them. We help them survive. We help them get out of infidelity. We help them get healthy. We are here for them. And that is our focus. Not on understanding why your wife did what she did. That's her business. Not on saving your marriage. That's your choice. We are here to help you navigate a horrible situation and protect yourself best you can. And given what you've told us, that while she committed to love and cherish, and forsake all others, she lied to you, to God, to your friends, your family, and all of those on her side as well. She didn't commit. She didn't honor. She didn't forsake. And that does not sound like love to me.

My wife had a 5 month EA / 3 month PA. I'm still with her. Optimist? Move over. It's not about that. It's about understanding who the person you're dealing with is, their history, previous actions, etc. and everything you know tells you that infidelity is part of your wife's story. This is who she is. Being an optimist does not mean you purposely put yourself in harms way because you are optimistic that you won't get hit by a Mack truck even though you are standing in the middle of the interstate. Common sense and good judgement must come into play as well.

I encourage you to exercise yours.

Being an optimist and being realistic can go hand in hand.

Your kind of optimism is comparable to buying a Ferrari because you plan on winning the sweepstakes.

A realistic optimist would cheerfully take on an extra job to save for a Ferrari.

Your wife’s serial-cheating can be dealt with. It can be “cured”. There are very respected couples that post here that have dealt with serial affairs and help others dealing with something comparable. But you must realize it’s IMMENSE work and no guarantee whatsoever of success.

The problem I think most of us see with your marriage is that it has NEVER been based on anything close to a healthy marriage. When you two committed to marriage then your wife was in infidelity. In most cases, we have seen there has been a base – a reference – that the WS can aim at. Your wife has never had that reference so she has no idea what she’s aiming for. The couples I referred to above have more history and more commitment at D-day and therefore the equation on whether to try R or go D leaned towards R. In your case the equation leans heavily towards D.

How do you define family? If your plan is to successfully cohabit in one house and call that home then fine, it can be done. Only then redefine your concept of marriage and fidelity.

I also don’t think you understand the beast that’s infidelity. If you think she cheated because there was something lacking in YOU… well… you can improve all you want but she might still cheat. Ever seen Tiger Woods ex-wife? See the women he cheated with? It’s nothing to do with you, other than it’s your marriage and your pain. The decision to cheat is totally 100% your WW.

superlee,

I keep coming back. Sorry. But I had another though I wanted to share with you.

It has to do with you being an optimist and a future where you are together with your wife. It's possible.

Let's face it. Your marriage is not what you thought or hoped it would be. Same holds true for each of us in the wake of DDay. And that's a sad thing. And a difficult one to work through. That our marriages that we put so much time and effort into turned into something very different than we had hoped and expected. Some of us reconciled. Some of us divorced and walked away. Others did something else. They divorced and remarried. After time and serious evaluation and work.

So, here's a thought. IMO, you need to majorly detach from your wife. Right now, it's a toxic relationship. She is not and hasn't been committed to you for a long time, yet you are very much codependent on her. You need to become your own man. Find out that you can not only survive without her, but actually thrive. Be successful. Be happy. Without her. This is absolutely key in you becoming a healthier you.

So, is that an option for you? To divorce. Go out on your own. Go to IC and work through your issues. Her job, during that time, would be the same. No contact between you guys. You each work on yourselves. And after a substantial period of time (not two months), if you are so inclined, and you have reached a point where you feel good about yourself without her in your life, don't feel you need her, etc., then you have the choice to reach out to her and date. And this way, you'll evaluate her like you would any other woman. And you'll know she has history. And you'd be able to gauge whether that's the kind of person you want in your life. Maybe you'd still want her. Maybe you won't. Maybe you'll come to the realization that you are someone pretty special and can find a woman who values you. Who values personal integrity. Who wants to commit to you and only you. Maybe she'll actually have done the work to become a healthier person. And maybe you guys would get remarried. Maybe.

Point is, you've detached, you've worked on yourself, you've found out that your life is not revolved around or dependent upon her, and you've become healthier and realized that you are a prize to be valued and cherished. And then you can evaluate a potential relationship with her in the future with clear eyes.

Because right now you can't. And you need to.

Anyway, my $0.02.

Does this change anyone’s opinion?

That's the whole problem here. You want to convince us the she is going to change. The truth is that what WE think doesn't matter. We are giving our opinion based on our own and collective (meaning what we've heard here) experience.

You ask is it possible that someone changes? Well yes, it is, but that person has to want to change and do the hard work. YOU CAN'T CHANGE HER! She can change herself but it's going to be a very long and crooked road! (That is if she even want to work on herself) please instead of trying to convince us, start to really listen to what so many people here are trying to tell you. We are trying to save you from years of pain, because that it's the direction we think this is heading.

Again, based on our experiences, it sounds that she is willing to go to IC just to placate you. This defenitely doesn't work and is a waste of time and money, because she is going to lie all the way through.

If you don't expose her to her parents, she will get away with what she did with little reprecussion (just a little nagging from your part).

Another thing that SHOULD BE DONE to even have a slight chance, is her quitting her job. (That would be the only way to have NC with these men) Are you both willing to live with that financial burden? Is she willing to quit and start from scratch in another job?

Superlee,

You keep bringing up the term "addiction" which in my opinion is a very accurate way of viewing HER behavior. (Thus far it seems like you're only viewing yourself as an addict.) Addictions at the root are pretty much a case of something being "broken" or "lacking" in the addict and they're trying to compensate with drug, alcohol, porn or AFFAIRS. The thing is: unless you address the root defiency, the addiction WON'T stop. Not matter how much the addict's family wants it to. Often now matter how much the addict themselves want to stop! I myself made the mistake of clicking my heels together and wishing for a faithful partner and I got cheated on again. Many on SI have done the same and they're trying to spare you additional pain. Cut yourself loose (temporarily if that's your intention) and then you and her can each SEPARATELY work on your own addictions.

Also have either of your read "How to Help Your Partner Heal from Your Affair"? Also there's a thread about what people wish they had done at the beginning. http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=446349

Hope it helps.

medic. You married a serial cheat, you won't get out of the marriage when it's new and she's cheating on you.

What can we do for you that you won't do for yourself ???

I’m devastated. I’ve never felt this worthless.

It's not about you. Not at all. It's about her.

In your shoes, I'd file for annulment. Seriously. She made her vows under false pretenses, and she's a shitty excuse for a human being.

You believe your wife is a special snowflake. You have decided to disregard all the hard earned knowledge, and wisdom that you have gotten on this thread.

It's great to have hope, but at some point you will need to take off your rose-colored glasses and see this for what it is.

You're not the first betrayed spouse to decide that you know better than everybody else, that your situation is unique, and that your wayward gets it. If, you do return to this website, I can tell you, you will not be told I told you so. Because everybody here understands your need for optimism.

I do find it odd that your wife is supposedly so remorseful, and she posted here, but yet she has not returned. I will say that a successful reconciliation requires a not only remorseful waywards spouse, but one who is proactive in healing the damage they have caused.

This website is invaluable. Usually we will counsel new betrayed spouses to not share this site with their wayward. But you already did. I would make it a requirement that she continue to post, so she can understand why she has done what she has done, and heal herself.

I really hope that you have that rare unicorn. A serial cheater who completely reformed himself after being caught. Really. I really do.

she needs to do alot of work on herself for a long time. its hard work. she has to want to do it.

i dont think she does. shes in damage control mode.

Hi all

Thanks again for all your responses.

I’ve not found much time to respond this week. Working all week, playing happy family for a couple of hours after work until the little one is in bed and then talking until the early hours has meant there’s been little time to do anything.

It’s weird. I don’t know how I feel, like literally don’t know how I feel. But it’s not a case of thinking one thing one minute and the polar opposite the next, it’s like I’m not feeling anything.

I’m listening to music whilst I write this. I haven’t listened to music for what feels like months. It’s not been months, at best a couple of weeks, but I love music. It’s been a daily part of my life since I discovered The Prodigy when I was 14 or something. It wasn’t the first record I bought, that was Aisha by Death In Vegas. I don’t know why I’m writing this down, maybe’s it a ploy to distract myself.

The empty feeling of worthlessness hasn’t gone anywhere though. I reckon that’s gonna stick around for a while.

With that exception I’m numb. I’ve read that it’s normal to feel this way but in all the stories I’ve read the affected have only been numb for a couple days and then started to feel the raw emotions of it all. I don’t know what’s happening – am I numb still and at any point I’m going to fall apart. In my first post I said I was breaking down, at that point I was feeling destroyed, I couldn’t believe what was happening but thinking about it I’ve suffered this for months now, I’ve been suffering since the day I recorded her phone conversation. The question I keep asking is, is there some ridiculous strength in me that I never knew I had, or am I subconsciously delaying the inevitable? Writing it down sounds terrifying, but I’m not feeling scared, I’m just not feeling anything.

I think a lot of it is that I don’t believe I know absolutely everything yet. The couple months have taught me that when she’s lying she crawls inside herself, you know that point where all facial expressions disappear and they almost seem to shrink in front of you? There’s been a lot of that recently, and whilst it’s subsided more recently I still see it every now and again. I thought about begging, but I’ve had to do that twice already and I made a promise to myself that I will never do that again, ever.

Does anything of this make sense? Could it be possible that I’m shutting out every emotion that I have because I know there’s more to come? If she never tells me will I ever be able to move on? Or is it all in my head? Is this just a by-product of a shitty situation?

She’s seen her first session with an IC today. She told me what time it was, and I checked the tracking app we have but I wasn’t sure where the session was so I wondered if she had actually gone to see one.

She’s been doing some soul searching I think.

I feel positive about this, but we’re now being faced with a rabbit hole that I don’t know I want to enter. Suppose after a few months we decide to give reconciliation a go and she then comes to the realisation that she never really loved me and leaves? Fuck! But then on the side of the coin, could I leave without giving it a chance, without giving it all my effort?

I’ve got some soul searching to do too.

I’ve got an appointment tomorrow with my doctor and I told my mum about the affair. The IC is going to hear about the porn addiction, the low self-esteem problems, and the affair, but not my mum. I told her about the low self-esteem and I wanted to tell her about the porn but I wasn’t able to. I think I know why, and without going into detail something happened to me when I was in my early teens, it wasn’t abuse or anything like that, but I think it is in some way responsible for the porn addiction I have. At the moment I feel it’s too hard to admit it to her.

But despite all that, she knows, and I know that she knows, and she knows that I know that she knows. But it’s never been spoken about. Maybe one day it will but not today.

It felt good to talk to someone. I’d not told anyone much before, I told a colleague who is currently going through a lot more than I am – she has it bad at the moment, and she broke down in front of me and I guess I felt it easy to be vulnerable in front of her because she was so vulnerable in front of me. The environment I work in means it’s practically impossible to have a private conversation so there isn’t going to be any scope to discuss this at work unless I open up to everyone, which I won’t do. But it felt good talking to my mum the first time, she was upset so I could be upset too. The second time was a bit odd for me. She was telling me what I suppose any mother would say; she was being nice to me, listing my qualities in her eyes and being complimentary. But then she told me I didn’t deserve this, and she apologised. And I didn’t like that. I know that it was a ‘I’m sorry this is happening to you’ apology but still it wasn’t nice.

I’ve been thinking about revenge a bit, not towards my wife but towards Mr A. I don’t think I actually want revenge, I just want to be able to feel something, I want to feel anger. Actually that’s not true, I know the anger is there. I can feel it trying to come out every now and then, only for it to be supressed a little while later. I want to unleash it. I want to feel it. I want to use it towards him. I want him to ring me. I’m going to his wife tomorrow and I will be so disappointed if he doesn’t call. I won’t call him though. I feel a bit undignified calling him. I also want to believe that he doesn’t deserve my time. Time is precious, he’s taken my wife off of me, he doesn’t get to take me time off of me. That is unless he rings me first, then he can have hours! It’s weird.

I’ve been eating a lot. I have always struggled to put weight on and through November and December I didn’t eat very well at all. No breakfast, no lunch, no snacks. And that was a good day. I lost weight and being conscious about my weight already it affected me. I was worried that it would just get worse. But it hasn't. I’m eating breakfast, big lunches at work and a big meal for dinner. I’m even eating snacks after dinner.

I’m getting through work just about, I spend a lot of time procrastinating, but I’m not a mess. I find myself struggling to find the drive to do my work. But I’ve been fairly unhappy in my job for a while now. Looking back I’ve not really had the support at home to deal with the stresses of work and I think I’ve supressed a lot of the ill feelings and just carried on with things as they are. But it’s been different the last few days, I found some inspiration. I am inspired, or at least if I was able to feel something I think this is what I’d be. I’ve updated my resume, I applied for a few jobs and I’ve got an interview. I said to myself, ‘you know what, you ain’t that bad’, and I smiled. And it was a genuine smile.

I just don’t know if I’ll be feeling that tomorrow. I don’t know what’s happening. I’m either dealing with this insanely better than I thought I would do or I’m about to hit a wall of pain so much harder than I ever expected was possible.

How did you guys handle things? Is what I’m doing normal behaviour? Am I experiencing some sort of sadistic high and should I expect a massive come down soon?

You're still essentially in shock. Every emotion available to you at this point is completely normal.

Be easy on yourself.

Seven months in to 'discovery' and my head still spins at times - I forgot tickets to an event we were supposed to go to - twice. In my five decades on the planet I don't space out like that - ever. New normal is sleep deprivation, wandering thoughts and a constant dull pain in my chest.

Music is huge for me too -- and I couldn't listen to my music for a couple months. Now I am back to utilizing it everyday in the healing process.

At some point in life, when I am much more calm, I do plan a visit with AP to let him understand what I think his role was in all of this Hell.

So, again, I think every thought and overthought you're having is totally part of this shitty deal.

Since my fWW lost value for me during the affair (a long one) I also totally understand losing value for yourself. But you're right. You ain't bad.

All the messed up stuff was your WS choice, nothing to do with you as a person. Both people share the responsibility for the M - only one person cheated.

Time. It all takes time. To figure out what you have to work with with your WS, with your reactions to all of this and what you will ultimately want with your future. It will take a bit. Get support, IC and vent here as needed.

Superlee,

I normally don't swing at BSs but I must here.

IMO, here is the deal. Think about this. You were active with a porn addiction, and your wife was active with multiple affairs, and this all was occurring while you were both planning for and following through with your marriage. This tell me a lot. This tells me the problem is more than not being connected; you both liked not being connected enough to get married. Your relationship is toxic. IMO, you were attracted to each others excessive bubbles (the bubbles you maintain to compensate for your internal dysfunctions) and this leaves you with the inability to connect. You never had an emotion connection.

Start working on yourself. Fix your addiction problem and figure out why you fell into it. IMO, this action will be the best thing for you, and this action will also be the best thing for your marriage, if your marriage survives.

Your wife started IC. She appears to be looking into the mirror. She appears to be attempting to fix herself. Be advised, WSs can be very good at "appearing" to be. Time will tell if she actually changes, if you are willing to wait. In the mean time, go fix yourself. Get IC. Follow an addiction program.

I recommend you protect your assests. If only one of you becomes healthy (resulting in a desire to connect at a deeper level while the other cannot), your marriage is doomed. Face this fact.

SL

I will ALWAYS advise a childless person to DIVORCE a cheating spouse. I know it's hard, but you need to find the courage from within to leave your toxic wife. Your relationship was built on lies. Your marriage is a sham. I know you're worried about her kid, but you cannot use that as a reason to stick around. You've been disrespected and played since you've known her. She has no boundaries and there is no limit to the harm that she is willing to put you through. Run and don't look back.