SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

GatorFool, I have read your posts carefully. If I read them correctly, you think you haven't been a good husband and possibly that may have led somewhat into all this. As to your wife, I think you have been too quick to allow this to be minimized. When the kissing started, she should have immediately kicked him out. If for no other reason there were kids in the house. But she either took her clothes off for him or allowed him to do it for her and then had sex. Anywhere along the way, she just had to say 'no'. But the answer was 'yes'. Now, I will grant you she changed her mind real fast and came to her senses, but this is no excuse at all.

As to where to go, no disrespect, but I find the rings thing a little dramatic. It also promotes hard feelings.

My advice is to keep things as simple and straight up as possible.

Take time and take things easy. Both of you go to counseling and work thru your issues. During this time you can both decide of your want to stay in this marriage. I'd say things actually have promise. I wish the both of you well.

BP

Gator...one (likely minor) question.

During the "her full confession" post, you stated that "she hoped I'd be home for this but I was not", can you clarify what "this" is referring to?

'This' was his visit. She wanted me to be home. I think she was afraid of her fantasy and reality clashing. I would have prevented it if I was home.

First he was coming, I arranged to be home. Then he wasn't and I scheduled work. Then he was again...

Yes, the ring thing is dramatic, but I have very few options, Unless I walk away.

My wife realizes how close to divorce we are. I told her she deserves it for her behavior.

The problem is we both acknowledge we are each others 'loves of our lives'. Hard to walk away from that.

I need to swallow this shit sandwich and so does she.

First, I don't think the ring thing was too dramatic. Right now, she doesn't deserve to be wearing your ring and she needs more consequences than the threat of divorce.

Secondly, the 'love of your life' would not have done what she did. While I don't allege that she has done this in the past, she set this whole thing up and is guilty as charged. This is something that will eat at you for the rest of your life or at least a long time.

The issue I have with your situation is the same as a prior poster, you may be too quick to allow this to be minimized. You are also too hard on yourself because one of the biggest mistakes IMO for newly betrayed spouses to make. It enables rugsweeping and makes one vulnerable to stay around and accept abuse. One should be under a state of controlled and constructive anger which leads to decisive action to end the infidelity and quickly allows themselves to be able to determine what to do. You got half way there. But then you .....

say you need to 'swallow this shit sandwich' and so does she. I am curious. Why do you have to swallow it ? Why shouldn't only she have to ? Why do you feel obligated to stay ?

Now I am not suggesting that you divorce and I WOULD NEVER SUGGEST to separate. I think, except for pending divorce, separation has to be one of the stupidest concepts anyone has ever come up with. You either fix it or you don't.

Are you staying for the kids ? Not always the best thing to do but many here get it. Are you staying because you think you can get over it ? Are you sure you can ? Where do you think your head will be in 2 years ? 5 years ? 10 years ? Are you going to be one who is old, sitting on your porch, reading the newspaper and still having nightmares and raging about this ?

You are making a decision too soon. Stop blaming yourself, make sure she owns all of this and while I understand if you stay since this wasn't a long term physical affair or even a long term emotional one, some here couldn't and you need to figure out which person you are before committing to work it out.

Go back to page two. There are two great posts by Dyokemm. Re-read those

GatorFool, from some of your earlier posts, my thoughts and questions.

BTW, this was no friend of mine. He was part of a couple that were neighbors with kids and they were mostly her friends. >Your words are so true here and that’s why I feel that wk55hn comment below has some truth to it.

He just clung onto what he saw as what he wanted and his wife wasn't. > What do you mean by this, can you explain in more detail as it’s not very clear?

wk55hn posted, Tell the guy's wife or ex-wife - she may know a little more - why did they divorce? Your wife? Don't be so sure your wife did not add to that drama. > Did you get her to take a polygraph like wk55hn also suggested, as you have not said, I suspect you didn’t even ask her.

Did OM wife also move away after they split up and divorced, or just him, is his wife still in contact and friendly with your wife?

As for your wife’s confession you posted recently, IMO it is only part of what happened and what you need to know, it’s just enough she hopes, so the rest of what she actually did, will allow her rug sweeping to proceed.

IMO those rose coloured glasses are still firmly on your nose, and you are hiding behind them, I think you know you are also, why are you afraid of finding out the full truth, and want to accept the trickle truth confession she gave, toss those glasses away and get the polygraph done.

It’s impossible to move on with confidence without knowing the whole truth.

Regards BJE49

[This message edited by BJE49 at 8:13 AM, May 13th (Saturday)]

'This' was his visit. She wanted me to be home. I think she was afraid of her fantasy and reality clashing. I would have prevented it if I was home.

First he was coming, I arranged to be home. Then he wasn't and I scheduled work. Then he was again...

Well, your presence would have stopped it "that" time. If this is their "first time" she was on the way to banging this guy for who knows how long. She wanted her fantasy to become reality. Don't pretend it was all his idea, she is minimizing and you are too . There is a reason she deleted all the correspondence before could see it...

He: I'll be there in two weeks.

She: My H said he will be home.

He: Ok, I'll be there in three weeks.

She: Perfect, H will be working.

Now she is Shocked! Shocked that they fucked...

I think you need to get to the real reason she confessed.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 11:45 AM, May 13th (Saturday)]

I would like to re-marry her or renew vows, get new rings, whatever.

Re-marrying doesn’t really accomplish anything. You really didn’t mean the vows the first time so you hope the second time will be the charm? What if you cheat after the second vows? So what, she cheated after the first vows.

Also, I am very compelled to sleep with one of my old girlfriends to be 'even', but I'm afraid that will just make things worse.

How can I mentally even the score without causing more issues?

Having a revenge affair is generally a bad idea, especially for a nice guy like you. I would tell her that she dated a guy for two years behind your back and you stayed married to her. So now you have the option of doing the same and she can’t complain.

She used her "get out of jail free card" but you still have yours. That will give her something to think about.

[This message edited by Michigan at 12:16 PM, May 13th (Saturday)]

'This' was his visit. She wanted me to be home. I think she was afraid of her fantasy and reality clashing. I would have prevented it if I was home.

First he was coming, I arranged to be home. Then he wasn't and I scheduled work. Then he was again...

MickyBill is correct. Also the trip wasn't worth it to the OM if you were there so he canceled. Once he found out that you would be at work the trip was suddenly worth it. i.e. he came with the intention of ...... your wife.

[This message edited by Michigan at 2:44 PM, May 15th (Monday)]

So she has to be baby sit to prevent her from cheating? unfortunately it seems you facilitated the turn of events by entertaining the pos. Time to act like a alpha. It is mostly beta males who face infidelity.

[This message edited by goalong at 3:06 PM, May 13th (Saturday)]

She wanted me to be home. I think she was afraid of her fantasy and reality clashing. I would have prevented it if I was home.

I hope you can see how terrible this dynamic is. That you must be there, otherwise she is too weak, too irresistible to overcome her desire for another man.

She has to be a fully adult with self control and accountability.

You want to be her husband, not her father, and worse yet, her warden.

my soulmate ... each others 'loves of our lives'.

Too much pressure for that. What does it even mean, "soulmates," "loves of our lives?" It was a two-year inappropriate relationship the main part secret from you. I would just say I don't believe in soulmates and loves of our lives, except what we make it through ACTIONS. Too much to deal with infidelity, leaving the marriage, and trying to navigate the whole soulmates stuff, too. I'm no statistician, but I don't see many soulmates reconcile well. Maybe you can just be spouses who love each other and share a life together.

I'm glad you were able to retrieve enough of the texts to see the big picture, to know basically what it was. That is huge for eventually moving forward one way or another. I'm glad it was basically what she said.

I think this marriage ended when his dick made contact.

I put this up there with the soulmates stuff. Her body can be cleaned with warm water and soap. She could have been date-raped, probably not, almost definitely not, but what if she had been raped forcibly? Think this through, is her physical contact the problem, or her willingness? Is it not a problem on intention and fidelity than a physical problem. The physical is easier to visualize than her intentions and loyalty. Think this over a bit.

You have some great ideas and some terrible ones. This is a roller coaster, especially now early on. Try to moderate the highs and the lows. Throw out any extreme actions and words, table them for a while before doing them.

I so much understand the wanting to hurt her the way she hurt you. That was my main feeling afterward. My wife and I reconciled. I am not an expert, just one guy's opinion based on my own experiences and observations. So:

1. The sex with her girlfriend is a terrible idea, you won't even enjoy it except for the moment, the next minute you won't be in any better position, you'll feel good when you give your wife the big "FU" then you'll be in a new spot, even worse than before. I didn't do it, but I've spoken with enough men who did.

2. The notch in the wedding band or engagement ring is a Scarlet A, the permanence of her behaviors are in her head and yours, it will fade away, like a scar, like any pain, like any trauma. Why would you want to make a permanent physical mark to memorialize it? You trashed the affair furniture, clothes, etc., so why trash the ring. Look at it this way, the ring was a symbol of your marriage, not the symbol of her affair.

3. If you want to get a new ring and wedding band, new vows, new marriage, new start, that is all good, but the permanence of holding onto the trauma of the affair - don't do that. Do it now, as long as you want, but don't plan for future pain as a symbol forever.

This is a long process, 2-5 years, and how far are you on the let's say 2.5-year process now? I am psychic, and I will help you out with one prediction, and here is what will happen - you will either stay with her, or you will not. I guarantee it. If you are undecided, act in such a way that will help you in both possible futures.

I need to swallow this shit sandwich and so does she.

what? she served it. Looks like she has concocted a fairy tale for your consumption. There is a good chance this has happened before during the last two years. You were on and he was out and then you were out and he was on- looks like a planned trick to make you off base. You can call the POS and demand to know what happen just as a way of checking out her story. From the details it looks like POS should be also embarrassed and he will feel obligated to tell what happened.

[This message edited by goalong at 4:05 PM, May 13th (Saturday)]

Have you retrieved, or tried to retrieve, the deleted texts?

I think the view they have into your wifes thinking and planning is why she deleted them. 2 yr ea - guarantee they talked about how excited they would be to have sex and I'd bet that they discussed it regarding this trip and I'd bet your wife told him she couldnt wait.

That's normal for ea.

Gator,

I think wk55hn makes some very good points to bear in mind as you try to figure out how to move forwards.

It is clear how much this has hurt you, and I think we all know that pain. Please do not make any major decisions when you are having a bad day or you feel like everything is getting on top of you. You are still very close to the event, and if it is anything like it was for me, you must have times where you feel like you are in shock and you can't quite believe what has happened. This will pass, but it takes time for that to happen.

A big part of moving forwards successfully will be putting the infidelity behind you. I say that in relation to you as an individual, whether you reconcile or part from your wife. I know it is hard to do, but please do not let this sour your outlook on women, relationships, and marriage. That happened with me, because I let it. I convinced myself that my pain and bitterness was the way the 'real' world works. It wasn't, and it isn't, but it took me a long time to get out of that mind-set. I would hate to see that happen to you.

Like you, I also wanted to strike back, to make my wayward have a taste of the pain she had given me. But in the end I didn't, because once my head cleared with time, I realised that she did not cheat to hurt me. My pain was a very real consequence of it, for which I believe she was truly sorry, but at the time she strayed, she had no intention of hurting me. That's the thing with infidelity; it is a very selfish, self-focused thing to do. Waywards often operate in a mind-set where their affair is totally separate to their main relationship, relying on that separation to prevent anyone from getting hurt.

You are in a very tough place at the moment, feeling the pain at its most intense while wanting to hold things together and find a way to get past this and remain married. To be honest, as horrible as it is for you, I think you are doing a good job of it. And I understand why, in spite of everything, you want to build a new, stronger, better relationship with your wife. That can only happen if your wife understands the extent of the damage she has caused to the marriage, and I can see why taking away her rings and telling her that she deserves to be served with divorce papers are part of the process of clearing out any illusions she may still have about what she did.

Once she has taken full responsibility for her actions, she can work on building better boundaries and re-commit to the marriage. I like your idea of aiming for some kind of re-affirmation or a new ceremony to mark the end of the old, damaged marriage, and to start a new phase in which your wife has a better grasp of what she needs to do to protect the marriage. But a part of that has to be drawing a line in the sand between the old and the new marriage, and to try to leave as much of the bad stuff behind. That can be difficult to do, but if your wife is genuine in her efforts to become a safer and more committed life partner, the 'new' marriage will develop a better, different 'feel' to the old one.

I don't know if you have read any of the stuff in the healing library in this forum, but there is a lot of good stuff there. The other place you may want to look is in the Reconciliation forum. It is full of stories about how people face the challenges that occur as they repair their relationships.

If you have any friends or relatives you can confide in, that would be good, but I can see why you might not want to discuss what happened with many people as you want to reconcile and put this behind you.

I'll be thinking of you and wishing you well, Gator.

Have you retrieved, or tried to retrieve, the deleted texts?

I think the view they have into your wifes thinking and planning is why she deleted them. 2 yr ea - guarantee they talked about how excited they would be to have sex and I'd bet that they discussed it regarding this trip and I'd bet your wife told him she couldnt wait.

That's normal for ea.

This x 100.

GatorFool,

What basis do you have for believing her story that she abruptly ended their sexual encounter? Isn't it more likely that, after it was over, she concocted the story to make you feel better about what she had done?

As far as you're wanting to simultaneously "end" your marriage and "save" you relationship with her, this is just an indication that you are moving much to fast. It's only been a month or so since your d-day. Your emotions are still all over the place. You haven't had a chance to see how your WW handles this. You're already talking about renewing vows but you don't know how you're going to feel and how she's going to behave after things calm down and return to the hum-drum of daily life.

Slow down. Work on yourself for now. Concentrate on a healthy lifestyle, spending time with your kids, doing things with friends, trying new things. Don't be afraid to become a bit more emotionally distant from your WW. It will give you a new perspective on things. At the same time, observe how your WW deals with this. Does she follow through getting help for herself? Does she continue to be remorseful?

Recovering from infidelity is a marathon, not the 100 yard dash.

OK, some updates.

Wife confessed that she was the aggressor and basically guilty of being an active participant in the sex. (Yes I hoped it wasn't true).

She still stubbornly insists that it was not planned and she is very ashamed of this and everything.

She was suffering with abandonment and her friend was dealing withe the same issue.

So what happened is she betrayed me completely. Her reasons are important but not material in her guilt.

Was she horrified after and even during , who can say. She says yes. I believe her. I think he figured it out real fast and stopped as he was upset that this happened too.

Again, doesn't matter.

She went way past forgivable actions for my wife.

I still love her and she loves me.

This was a selfish act and not done to hurt me.

No decisions yet, no rush. We are partners for our children and will see where we find ourselves in 6 months.

My thoughts are we need to be sure what drive this is remedied and find out if I can ever be at peace with this.

Thanks for all of your comments and support.

Wife confessed that she was the aggressor and basically guilty of being an active participant in the sex. (Yes I hoped it wasn't true).

She still stubbornly insists that it was not planned and she is very ashamed of this and everything.

This is a very hard thing to come to terms with. She wanted this to happen...period. I would rethink the story you got from your WW. It sure sounds like the plan from the beginning was to have you out of the house either by the OM or your WW.

There were kids in the house. Please don't rugsweep this. There is more to the story. She is still only telling you the minimum to get by. I can't believe she was was too worried about the kids if she was the aggressor.

My line of thinking either a kid woke up and caught them or OM is a 1 pump chump.

Please don't rugsweep this. There is more to the story. She is still only telling you the minimum to get by.

There is nothing else to say here.

So she was still lying? Even though she admitted the sex, she lied about it too? Why confess, and then lie in the confession? Why did she continue to lie? Do you think she's holding anything else back?

"Abandonment" issues? What does that even mean? Abandoning her blouse and bra and pants and panties? I guess that would make sense. That was about the affair, the sex part.

But what about the lying part? What caused the lying?

One day this thread will be listed in the internet under the definition "Trickle Truth"

Gator, I say this with all due respect but used hyperbole above to really highlight that what is happening to you is something bad. There is waaaaaaaay more to this story than she is letting on.

I'll donate $10 to a charity of your choice if the reason she did not confess was that someone found out about their affair.

Gator, you are getting trickle truth (TT), and I expect there is more to come. Reading here, I've come to learn it is as bad or worse for the M than the A itself. The big TT I believe to be pending is the timing of his visit. I think she conspired with him to make sure you would be gone. Hence, her claim that she wanted you home when he visited is a lie IMO.

Also, the feelings of abandonment are no justification for boning another guy. The right way to address that issue is to approach you and share her concerns so that you can work on it together. Anything else is just an attempt to justify her actions. Do not tolerate that blameshifting for one second.

I also think it is highly suspicious that her texts are clean. I'd keep an eye out for a secret email account or another way of communicating you may not have considered. Apparently, some gaming apps have messaging components in them that cheaters use all the time to communicate covertly.

Lastly, I want to caution you to see things how they are rather than how you want them to be. I think this latest revelation will help that, but you need to keep your guard up until you consistently (and perhaps veritably) receive the truth from her. Glad to see you thinking about a 6 month timeline for a decision.

I would consider this TT to be grounds for a poly because she fundamentally changed the story/dynamic of the A with this admission.