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Sorry for the long time w/no update. It went down like this:

1. Met with lawyer - lined up all the paperwork needed - lots of time spent there

2. On an random Friday evening my wife informs me she was going to spent the night elsewhere (hotel) and would be seeing the OM.

3. I presented the papers to her right then and there

4. After hours of complete surprise and griping on her part - she finally sits down to admit everything

5. since then it's been steady progress at rebuilding "us" again - definitely not pretty at times and lots of IC involved along with MC (which has been super frustrating).

but in all - hanging in there and definitely in a better place with some sense of hope at cobbling this all back together and maybe improving.

since then it's been steady progress at rebuilding "us" again - definitely not pretty at times and lots of IC involved along with MC (which has been super frustrating).

MrA,

You left out the part where your WW begged you to forgive her, demonstrated immediate remorse, became completely transparent, accepted your exposure to her family and yours, and was willing to do anything to save her marriage and help you heal. I can only assume you might have left it out because it didn't happen. If it didn't, you are rug sweeping this and you will wind up in a miserable false R.

You don't need MC right now. Just like before, it will do more harm than good. What you do need to do is not commit to R until she proves to you she's earned a second chance. She does that by demonstrating remorse and showing that she's willing to accept consequences. That takes months to determine. MC is useless until she's to the point of complete contrition and you have made the decision R.

[This message edited by badmemory at 12:47 PM, April 12th (Thursday)]

I would include that yes - there has been demonstrated and articulated remorse.

Begging sounds very dramatic - so I'll temper it with her plainly stating at the end of the admission - that she is committed to healing "us". Probably lost in all of this is that I am confident that this did not progress terminally beyond an EA. I will not bury my head in denying that PA may have occurred - but testing proved and substantiated her denial to it moving to a PA.

That said - PA means different things to different folks - so I'll take the position of (to me) it's less relevant than the EA.Read back - I likely stated the same - that to me - I didn't care how far it progressed beyond EA - that sealed it for me. She likely did go further and found a way to cover that up and not reveal it yet. But whether that is admitted to or not - it wasn't my threshold. The EA was enough for me. A PA didn't make it worse.

Other items listed seem punitive and since I had not brought others into this - I did not and still do not feel like exposing it all at this point moves anything forward except some sense of shallow retribution. To me - it will be WAY more meaningful if she shared that with friends and family as a way of describing how all the lying and trashing she DID do to plenty of folks about the nature of her relationship and my reaction and actions surrounding it - was just that - a lie.

But yes - she's committed to fixing us - has been transparent - but it is still a struggle. And anyone going through this that can get to this same soft plateau that we are at now may attest - it's a balance between forgiveness and compassion while not being naive to the conniving hurtful capabilities that were demonstrated by having an affair to begin with. As well as - using this to reveal things that (as a betrayed spouse) you can do to improve not only how to be a better self - but to others as well. Lord knows - this forum started me down the right path to that. You just can't outright blame yourself when things like this happen.

I own no accountability for her decision around her actions, but I cannot deny that being a couple - that like everyone else - is unique and different - and is an imperfect dance of decisions. But you just gotta keep moving through while the music is playing.

I pray that there's no DDAY #2 - but I will say that we've got so far to go still. But just wanted to update folks.

I would include that yes - there has been demonstrated and articulated remorse.

Well, that's good to hear.

I did not and still do not feel like exposing it all at this point moves anything forward except some sense of shallow retribution.

Exposure is a reasonable consequence of cheating on your spouse. It is not shallow retribution and it is not punitive if it's handled without hyperbole. I don't necessarily agree that exposing to friends is necessary, but family (parents) is another story. She needs to prove that she is willing to own what she did. She needs to know that same consequence awaits her if it happens again. Keeping her A a secret from family is not compassion. It's a failure to test her remorse to the full extent and it's a form of rug sweeping.

My WW had a 2 year PA and we've been in R for over 6 years. What I've learned the most from that experience, was not what I did right, but the mistakes I made that caused subsequent regret. My largest regret is that I didn't test my wife's remorse to the fullest extent; much like you're doing. I also agreed to R to soon. She really didn't have much time to feel what's it's like to lose her husband for cheating and I didn't have enough time to think it through completely. I think that's the most important consequence that a WW needs and I failed to deliver it.

But you know what, we're still doing fine despite that. My regret is about dealing with my personal demons, not her lack of remorse.

Good luck. I'm hoping very much you have a successful R.

[This message edited by badmemory at 2:37 PM, April 12th (Thursday)]

Overall a very positive update. Glad you took decisive action and confronted her when she said she was going to the hotel. It must have taken the wind out of her sails.

I’m glad your WW is showing remorse and a willingness to rebuild your marriage. Your 5th paragraph in this last post eloquently lays out the dance we do between being vigilant and skeptical of future actions while trying to be supportive of a spouse trying to rebuild your trust. You know your spouse better than any of us and if you choose not to expose that is an acceptable path as long as you are aware of the ramifications of non exposure. As long as your WW continues to demonstrate true remorse and helps to heal your pain, is transparent and loving, that is the crucial part of rebuilding your marriage.

Get two books - "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" and "Not Just Friends". Both are quick reads, read them first, then give them to her.

Thank you for the book advice - I feel like I've read EVERYTHING and recall seeing those - I'll circle back.

On the topic of exposure - I am willing to hear the pros/cons - but struggle with goal here. If its to keep the WS more accountable by having more people hover over that have way less emotional investment in my marriage but likely have the same personal investment in that they love and care for us as their sons and daughters (in laws) too. Isn't that just a pile on that WE now combat as a couple login forward to have to routinely give stuff updates and deal with lingering judgement that is likely not resolved in the same manner and attentions we give it?

I'm just asking - and am curious to hear thoughts.

But again - my sense of resolve with family and friends will be to have HER admit that the trashing was unfair and the portrayal was a lie.

If its to keep the WS more accountable by having more people hover over that have way less emotional investment in my marriage but likely have the same personal investment in that they love and care for us as their sons and daughters (in laws) too. Isn't that just a pile on that WE now combat as a couple login forward to have to routinely give stuff updates and deal with lingering judgement that is likely not resolved in the same manner and attentions we give it?

I guess that depends on the family dynamic. I wouldn't be one to give any "updates" to my family. I would tell them only the basic info to start with and tell them it's something we are going to deal with privately - so please respect that. And, that the only reason you've told told them about it in the first place is that your wife has agreed to take ownership of what she did.

I'd recommend that you tell your parents and she agrees to tell hers. Now, if either parents are bat shit crazy meddlers or hyper judgmental; that's a different story. There can be exceptions.

[This message edited by badmemory at 3:46 PM, April 12th (Thursday)]

Sorry for the long time w/no update. It went down like this:

1. Met with lawyer - lined up all the paperwork needed - lots of time spent there

2. On an random Friday evening my wife informs me she was going to spent the night elsewhere (hotel) and would be seeing the OM.

3. I presented the papers to her right then and there

4. After hours of complete surprise and griping on her part - she finally sits down to admit everything

5. since then it's been steady progress at rebuilding "us" again - definitely not pretty at times and lots of IC involved along with MC (which has been super frustrating).

but in all - hanging in there and definitely in a better place with some sense of hope at cobbling this all back together and maybe improving.

Looks like your wife was trying to play tough only she brought a knife (#2) to a gun fight (#3)

In a word...TEXTBOOK

This is why so many people say "File, and get control" and "you have to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save it"

As seadoug said, textbook.

I would guess, being on this site for many years, you have only a small fraction of the story.

Obviously she has been in contact with this guy for some time. Do I believe is was only an EA? Not for a second, but when the opportunity presented itself, she basically told you to fuck off, I'm going out with an old flame and there's nothing you can do about it.

Then she tried it again when you slapped the papers on her.

By this time, she's probably covered her trail by erasing and deleting all incriminating evidence, again, textbook.

The advantage for you, if you played it right, is that she doesn't how much you know. You NEVER reveal you sources or methods. EVER!

My fWW knew I was suspicious, but kept going. I had a keylogger on her computer and had her secret emails accounts and chats. After I confronted her, she knew it was over, yet she persisted to trickle truth me and minimize every detail.

She never figured out how I got the info, but I prepared a list of about 50 or so questions, I wanted names and places, and specific details, as well as some very self aware questions as to reasons and motives. The kicker was any, and I mean any lie on even one answer, and I was prepared to call it a day and this marriage was over. I convinced her I meant it. Of course many of the questions I already knew the answer to, and some I didn't, but she didn't know which ones.

I think I got maybe 70- 75% of the truth, although it was still minimized.

Maybe that is worth a try.

I had her answer them on the computer, and the keylogger was still on there, so it was interesting to see her first response, then go back and change it before she let me read it.

I don't think she admitted everything. Just everything she thinks you might know about.

Good luck, brother.

And I think you handle this as well as anyone could have, Good job!

[This message edited by twisted at 4:57 PM, April 12th (Thursday)]

And that was my thought process learned here for the first time - you have to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save i

Yep, you're a quick study. Nice guys tend to be more patient, I think, and less impulsive. It helps when stop long enough to plan your moves, and anticipate her response.

I had to get to point I faced that its a

50/50 deal whether or not you 2 could work it out if you even tried R. She needs to understand from you that this is a watershed moment in her life, does she favor a divorce or the 50/50 longshot? Tell she needs to pick a side so you can make a decision. No negotiating at this point. In or out. If she's out,...well there ya go. If she's in, then you need a set of requirements, demands, and deadlines met before you willing to try. Some of those may be negotiatable.

Thats what I should have done. Your milage may vary.

There is a cadre here that believe very strongly in exposing the cheating spouse to virtually everyone. You seem to have reservations about it so I want you to consider the following:

Exposure, like posting on the internet, is something that can never be taken back.

The spouses family may still support her, but many others may exile her forever. How your family reacts is important. She may never be welcomed again.

If a cheating spouse is honestly working towards R and putting in the effort, exposure may be justifiably be viewed as revenge.

I am glad you came back. I over time have found it useful to stay connected. We truly in house separated for close on 3 years. We started reconciling after six months. My fwh is not a self motivator. He also had been recently diagnosed with asbergers, genius with intellectual life and social, empathy etc was broken. I knew he was remorseful but knew unless, I stayed in separate rooms and let him work out his why it would never work.

Reconciliation will work best when the wandering spouse is super motivated. When they are willing to go to any lengths to recover. For me it was live life in separate bedrooms and separate spaces in the house with full transparency.

You asked about exposure. I regret now how open it got. I regret telling our complete friend group. I had forgotten that a person I considered a sister was adverse to any turmoil. I supported her through many things. When it came to this she felt it brought bad juju into there life. It didn’t but they wanted him out of there lives. Thiese were the people we spent holidays with. They had no close family and neither did we.

They are gone from our life. My daughter lost her family. It sucks. I found out who were real friends and who weren’t. I found acceptance from odd places and condemnation from some very “religious” people. Would I expose widely, no. I would be very careful with it. My immediate family, yes. Widespread to the community no. People who she lied to or old college friends gone.

One demand I had for my husband was no social media. He had poor boundaries. Friending a bunch of high school women who are his type. It was without telling me. We had agreed Facebook would be used to follow some guy buddies. His EA was one sided with an attention whore who wanted the kibbles but was truly after someone else. So Facebook was a dealbreaker for me. If he had a family, which he has not got any besides a developmentally disabled brother. I would have been ok with a shared Facebook for family.

I am really not a fan of social media. Perhaps you should consider a shared Facebook.

Have you talked to the man who was meeting your wife?

Has she contacted him to tell him not to contact her again and that their "friendship with benefits" is over?

What is stopping your wife from doing this again?

The threat of divorce is just a threat of divorce, now instead of telling you next time she wants to see the OM she'll just go ahead and do it secretly.

Question is, have you confirmed the affair is over?

Well thank you - all great input - both pro and con.

I especially appreciate the balance and "personalized" experiences encountered.

To address some comments:

1. yes, I think there are in enough elements in my family and circle of friends of hers that are frankly, batshit crazy and meddling. There are some good eggs tho - and what'll be interesting is to see how she reveals or continues to protect herself from judgement while seeking to mollify what's she done to trash me and mislead others. I do worry about folks that will be forever distanced if I step in and start spreading my version of events.

2. I do think she's "in" - and I agree - she'd see it as revenge at this point. But it can be effective if I get the sense or tip off that she is straying back to the AP

3. I like the Facebook advice - admittedly that's how this all started.

I've not contacted the AP and he's not with someone (to my knowledge) - but my wife and he have been out of contact so it's hard to keep tabs on that now. But he was purportedly unattached at the time. And in my back and forth over whether to contact him anyway, I decided that I wouldn't. He's an unknown to me and I could not gauge if it would have helped or hindered.

Filing seemed to have been the best option (for me at least).

I don't want to sound like "I've got this" --- because I don't. It's a daily boomerang of question myself over what I should do next while also trying to manage a sincere rebuilding of trust. It has been SO hard to manage through this while still having hurt, anger, suspicion and resentment. AND... if she was willing to abuse our relationship and go outside of it - then she's got her own demons to work through too. And that's hard to be in anyway understanding of her struggles (at least for me).

It's easier to address her actions and way harder to address her feelings mutually. We can work through the actions as facts, she has to work through the emotions... and my sense is at this point that blackmailing her or seeking revenge would be counterproductive.

I hate this. F'ing months wasted on this BS.

[This message edited by MrAnudo at 9:55 AM, April 13th (Friday)]

Are you still seeing the same MC ? At this point IC is going to be more beneficial to both of you right now. JHMO. Working on yourself needs to happen before you start addressing the M. You both are so new to this and your deeper feelings have yet to come to the surface.

IC is great. There is time for MC later. Right now she broke a boundary and did something that was against her values. Why ? She won't find that answer in MC. Neither will you. Again, JMHO.

I agree with numbanddumb on IC for both first.

For me that was the game changer. He allowed me to go with and have a 10min check in with the IC about what he was really doing, his skewed view about every 3 weeks.

He was abused by his mother, he slips into victim mode occasionally. I asked him last year to go back, he didn’t. This Jan after all the trauma events in our life, I said go back now. Get an appointment scheduled this week. Your causing yourself and family unnecessary issues. Trauma his IC reminds me daily causes regression.

Beyond the fact that we as BS are the victims, they get extra attention because they made bad choices. We don’t really get time to heal easily as we have to watch them and gauge if they are meeting our requirements for reconciliation.

They have to get IC, we have to watch them to gain trust. They are in my mind still all about themselves to fix themselves. So we still are kinda of second, in that we don’t have the luxury of concentrating on our healing. We still need to see actions not words.

That is why I encourage you to continue to express yourself here. Get your frustrations out here.

So for me - yes, day 1 (well shortly thereafter) I NEEDED IC - I had no one and I hadn't stumbled across this until nearly a month or more later.

At the time - all WE had access to was our MC. Which seemed fine to me at first, but even the MC said - go get IC.

Here's where my wife has dragged her feet... and it's a copout. I do believe its really about her putting off having that hard conversation that doesn't have me in the room that she's not yet willing to have with a new councelor. Again - a copout. But, I think between the MC and myself that its been said enough that it needs to happen that it will soon - or I think the conversations will become much different.

Again, it's the timing here. She's only now come out of the fog, has at least embraced the idea of coming clean with me and has introduced it into our MC sessions - so it's at least seeming a little more "fair" now for me (at least).

So - me IC - good to go, it's been pretty helpful I think.

For her - no IC YET - I think it'll move in that direction sooner rather than later.

MC has been helpful as we are BOTH in a tough place - and there is some value to hearing where we are BOTH failing to help each other get to trusting again.

Where I get a little weird about her own IC (once she gets it) - is yes - I think the focus becomes that person alone who then gets to be the victim... and that can make us go backwards again too - so it's interesting to read that you could do a check in every so often. Nice idea.

And geez oh man - this is SO friggin true ->THEY get extra attention because they made bad choices.

ugggggggghhhhh so unfair just so unfair.