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Neanderthal I just caught up with your post and I'm so sorry for all the trickle truth and added desolation of her lies.

I can't give you any better advice than what you have been given. Only my support.

I've loosely follow you situation here. This really does suck, just like everyone else here. But I agree with your point about it only being 3 months. I know you wrote that with a sort of negative tone about it taking 3 months. From my perspective, you have absolutely fast tracked this awful situation. And though it has been rough, at only 3 months out, you are in a way better position than most of us at that point. I'm sure that does little to make you feel any better, but you powered thru this like a champ. I see your vision for your path forward being much clearer than most of us.

I will second what Stevesn had to say. I don't think it was an exit affair either and it is possible she may still be able to turn the corner and become R material. Whether or not you are past your "tipping point" is a separate inquiry, as Stevesn also points out.

So, time is likely what you need here to suss it all out...

Trying to explain to her that it could be a temporary or permanent change, how do I do that?

Be upfront with her that you haven't decided on the outcome of the marriage but for now you need the space to process this. You don't have to let her know anything more than that you haven't decided on anything aside from separation right now.

I agree with much of Stevesn's post. I'm not so sure about the remorse part, but I do believe WS do this shit bc they are scared witless and are trying to cover their own arses. And Stevesn is right - many of the (now) well respected WSs here on SI who have successfully R'd did the exact same thing.

Neanderthal is the only one who can decide for himself what's a permanent dealbreaker for him. The A, the lies, the TT, etc.

I truly believe that separation (with a 180) will provide some much needed space to heal, and to grieve. And trust me, that grieving the M post-S is a bitch. To do that while grieving the death of your mother will be really hard. I firmly believe the only path forward is through. As much as you will miss time with your DD, that time alone could become a positive time for catharsis - to give yourself the space to allow those intense, painful, feelings of grief be felt and processed.

And to determine what you want.

It's pretty universally accepted on SI that TT means a new dday. So, you are 3-4 days from dday. 3-4 days from new trauma. And as all the therapists worth a lick will say, it's usually not best to make life altering decisions (eg filing for D) when in the midst of recovering from a trauma. So take the time and space to do that healing.... use that time away from your WW to work on and focus on YOU.

Godspeed.

Virtual Hug Neanderthal.

I was one of the people pulling for her from the start. I told her once you start the timeline, when you move back in, it better have everything.

Yeah, you are going to have a mountain to climb over here now like the rest of us.

Well, I thought she was remorseful, guess not. She just was scared.

Wow, she is going to need to leave again. Glad you are sticking to that.

I cant believe that people here will still say that she can be a R matterial. And I can be president ofthe world,but that is bullsheat and we all not that is not happening. People,why are you telling him to take back spineless lying cheating remorsless bi..ch?? There are 3.500.000.000 woman in the world,why in hell do you tell him to live his life with her and be miserable???

BTW - I don't feel like looking through her bull crap page anymore.

So did she start therapy?

If so, did she tell her therapist what was going on?

I would doubt it, but who knows. It might be time she starts and goes in with the truth that she will continually lie to the counsellor and needs one that will call her on her bull crap.

I don't know. Giving you alternatives/options if you don't file.

Otherwise, just file.

I'm so sorry about your situation. I haven't commented much on this thread, if at all, because I'm not the best advice giver. But I was one of the people who didn't really believe your WW's story, but I was really hoping she was telling the truth, since she stuck to it so steadfastly. Upon learning of her continued TT, I was immediately taken back to that mental place I was in 3 years ago, on my Dday. I am so sorry... no matter what happens, it won't always feel as shitty as it does right now.

My advice to you is to give her the old 180. It worked wonders for me for awhile. Work on improving your own life, and just focus on yourself and your child(ren). (Sorry, I can't remember how many kids you have). Pick up an old hobby. As cliche as it seems, hitting the gym really helps... turn that anger into energy in the gym. Reach out more to your friends. Let her see that you aren't going to let her fucked up shit ruin your life.

You'll know when it's time to stop the 180... don't ignore those signs. I took the 180 too far, with permanently damaging consequences. Good luck, I am so sorry. I have been where you are, 3 years later and I'm still married. I go back and forth on why I'm really still married. For the kids. For the finances. For the life that I don't want to leave behind. Because everybody loves my wife, and my whole community would ostracize me if we were to D. Because my wife is actually an alright lady when she wasn't cheating on me, and I kinda like her.

There are 3.500.000.000 woman in the world,why in hell do you tell him to live his life with her and be miserable???

I had to do the math, because, well, I can.

Here are the numbers:

2,000,000 women in my state

500,000 in my age bracket (25-45).

60% are already married in that age bracket.

15% do not have at least a high school diploma.

30% are considered obese.

Down to 120,000 in the whole state.

36,000 live within an hours drive of me.

Here are some qualifiers.

She cant be unemployed, have a felony, or have more than 2 kids(preferably one or none). This is Oklahoma so those qualifiers alone probably eliminate 60% of the remaining women.

Now I gotta find her, be attracted to her, she likes me, is good with my daughter, and isn't bat shit crazy. And is willing to deal with my baby mama drama.

So to recap. There might be a hand full of women within 100 miles that id probably willing to date. Oh and my wayward wife would be one of them, so a handful minus one.

Now that I've typed all that out, what am I waiting for! Love is right around the corner! I'm surrounded by perfect women!

BTW - I don't feel like looking through her bull crap page anymore.

So did she start therapy?

I could tell you but I don't feel like looking back one page to remember what I wrote one page back.

Welcome back DoinBettr. I missed you.

I disagree with the scarcity mindset. It’s always written from a position of fear. I do it all the time in business and my mentor beats the crap out of me for it.

The proper mindset is that there are a significant number of options and that it doesn’t matter what that number is relative to the general population.

Once the word gets out that you’re a free man you’ll have every one of your network advertising not only your availability but the story behind it. There will be a line at your front door.

So to recap. There might be a hand full of women within 100 miles that id probably willing to date. Oh and my wayward wife would be one of them, so a handful minus one.

Now that I've typed all that out, what am I waiting for! Love is right around the corner! I'm surrounded by perfect women!

Neanderthal, the question is not if you will be able to find another mate quickly. The question is will you be able to be happy with your WW. Is being with her a preferable option compared to not finding a compatible partner soon?

If my WH had done what your WW has done, particularly the bold faced lying, I would never be able to trust him. And I could not live with someone I could not trust at all.

She is a very good liar. I disagree that she is now ready for remorse. The truth had to be literally dragged out of her. She wasn't protecting you. She was protecting herself.

I disagree that she is now ready for remorse. The truth had to be literally dragged out of her.

I agree with this. I think the idea that she's now ready for remorse hinges on a very large, dangerous assumption that the only thing keeping her from remorse is this last little bit of deceit she was forced to admit to. She very well could still be in damage control mode -- after all, she didn't give in until absolutely forced -- and still just trying to say the right things without internalizing the meaning behind the words.

I’m going to have to call Bullshit on your analysis. I’m not sure what type of place that you work at, but if there are any women there, they have already had multiple conversations of who gets first shot at you, or who has a single friend that gets first shot at you! The same thing is happening at her old pjob and among her circle of friends.

Once you get your head straight, you will be shocked at the number of single women out there who start talking to you.

Don’t let fear of not finding someone slow you down. I’m going to get bashed for this, but that is not a decent guy’s problem. THEY will most definitely find you!!!!! This is actually a problem for divorced women, especially those that cheated, because what man in his right mind would want to such a high risk of being with a known and admitted cheater? Oh, she’ll date, but all the decent men will flee once they have the discussion of why their past relationship(s) didn’t last. Although, after several no second dates, your wife will lie and start to say that you were the one that cheated. And when YOU have this discussion, you will come out looking good in the eyes of your dates.

Good luck and stay strong.

[This message edited by Newlifeisgreat at 5:24 AM, October 17th (Thursday)]

I agree with this. I think the idea that she's now ready for remorse hinges on a very large, dangerous assumption that the only thing keeping her from remorse is this last little bit of deceit she was forced to admit to.

Agreed. I'd like to point out that yes, she's not the first WS to withhold the truth on these forums but her campaign to argue with people who questioned her and say that everyone should take her story as an example of why a WS needs to tell the truth after each TT session before the polygraph is ..... special. She may finally be in a place where she could get it but I doubt she is remorseful right now. She's got to do more work and come clean to her therapist before she can be.

I could tell you but I don't feel like looking back one page to remember what I wrote one page back.

I will search your page. I just rolled through a few and didn't see any mention of therapy. I ask because she needs to be doing something to make this work out.

Sorry she put the same ketchup on this shit sandwich we all eat. WW lie and minimize.

Welcome back DoinBettr. I missed you.

Yeah, I am the eternal optimist. That burns me out. I was typing on your WW page before. Felt kind of bad posting on both of them.

BTW - You knew she was watching your threads.

My WW does that even though she isn't out here. I mentioned some friends once and she grabbed me and said, "Why would you mention our friends. They said not to share that."

I laughed because people out here don't know us. Much less my friends.

I think what other people say has so much more impact on the WS than what we type. It is kind of weird that way.

I read that she was not in love with OM.

That they had no plans to be together in the long run.

That she had no plans to leave you.

So why did she jump with both feet into the affair? Simple...she wanted it.

So basically she betrayed you, your marriage, lied to you consistently, put your health at risk, destroyed your family for....nothing!

For what it’s worth then I agree completely with Stevesn.

This affair has none of the criteria to be called an exit affair.

What I see in both of you – N and L – is a reluctance to deal with this from a stance of reality. You are both still hanging on to drama.

Your WW still needs to understand and fully grasp that telling the truth is the ONLY way to go. Based on what you have shared she held on to her secrets until confronted by the polygrapher, and even then, it was he who told you the gist of what she said. She needs to reach a stage where she’s willing and capable of being totally frank and outspoken – both on what she did and what she wants.

You N need to fully grasp what she has done and your reactions to that. You need to understand that what she did is more than ample reason to divorce. You need to understand that what she did is surmountable if you truly want to reconcile. Both paths are still open to you.

I think you need to understand that there is no punishing, no revenge. If YOU want to D, you do it because YOU WANT to. Not to spite her, but because YOU don’t want a marriage with this woman. If YOU want to R you do so YOU WANT to. Not because of finances, pensions or the kid(s). You do so with the long-term goal of accepting (but never approving!) what she did. You don’t get to remind her ever so often that she should do the dishes because she cheated.

I think you both need to have some inkling on what the two paths really are:

I for one think most couples in your shoes often misunderstand divorce. If L was my sister I would be telling her that laws and regulations should ensure a fair divorce. That her actions in the last year do not justify that she settles for less than she’s entitled to. That she doesn’t have to leave the home any more than she wants to. I would be telling her the same thing I would be telling you: Separate the emotional and the financial aspects when divorcing because D is basically only the financial factor.

I think you also both need to understand what R looks like. It’s a couple of years of INTENSE work. Preferably managed and kept on track by a competent MC. It’s emotional ups and downs and demands a lot from both of you. It’s not over after 2 years, but an ongoing everlasting process. Totally irrespective of infidelity then a good marriage is an ongoing reconciliation marriage.

N and L – You won’t solve your issues in the next few days. It’s OK to take time off from the worries. It’s OK to calm down and look around.

Finally: Stevesn; great to see you back!

I just wanted to say that I also fall into the camp that don't think your WW's affair was an exit out of your marriage. As to the the TT I think she started lying and didn't know how to get herself out of the deeper and deeper hole she dug herself into.

This is probably not going to be popular but there is one other point I would like to make. There was horrific TT but you found out in 3 months, there are BSs here who are still getting TT'd years after their initial dday. There are new threads started here weekly if not daily. Now please note I'm not in any way stating you are in any way lucky. You're in a horrible situation but you have the information you need to make to make an informed choice.

Finally, I would take a detached view of the posts here. People got so invested because IMO there was almost a real time installment from both sides and therefore some posts are very emotionally charged.

Neanderthal- We can talk about numbers all we want. Yes, you could easily find a different woman. Maybe she is more mentally healthy than your current wife. Maybe she is even better at wearing masks. Who knows?

In my experience I've learned a lot about myself, but also about my W. Some people are capable of change. Redemption is very a powerful motivator. Being motivated in an intrinsic way to be the best person (wife, mother, human being are implied) is not something you will find just anywhere. Everyone has baggage. Everyone.

Your W has not been "herself," in the true sense of the word, her whole life. She's been play acting a role she thought she was supposed to play. She still has her mask on, but she is beginning to feel the burden that the mask carries. She has a lot of work to do on herself and maybe she can or maybe she can't take it off. No one knows for sure. The thing is underneath that mask is a very insecure, scared and vulnerable person. Yes that person did have an A, but that was never about you. Of course you are going to say "how can you say that? I am destroyed." You are and I am not discounting that. You don't see it yet, but you don't have to own any part of this. You've got options up to and including Ding your W. She, on the other hand, is never going to be able to escape herself.

My point is watching someone completely change from the mask wearing person to a completely authentic version of themselves creates a different kind of respect. That respect can be a seed that grows into something really great. I admire the heck out of my wife for what she has done. I respect her ability to handle life challenges no matter how hard they may be.

It is not all good times though. It is the hardest thing I've ever done. It is also something I can be very proud of too.

My W and I've had a rough spot recently and we've worked through it. We have faced much worse. The point is that marriage 2.0 we have today is so much more fulfilling to me because it gives the best of both worlds. Freedom to be myself and yet at the same time gives me a loving and caring environment as a failsafe when "being myself" doesn't work out. No, not all wine, roses and sex. It is not a romanticized version of a M you see in popular fiction. It is real, it is honest and it overlaps with what I want most out of this life.

I've tried really hard not to point you one way of the other (I am failing at that right now). I guess I want to balance everything else I've said with an honest portrayal with what my experience has been. You can't have light without some darkness.

No I am not the same person I was. My W is very different from who she was and our M ain't even close to the original. It works for us on more days than it doesn't. I have a real authentic partner that has been battle tested and shown me her true mettle. She loves me, appreciates me and would move mountains to ensure my life is filled with as many good things as we can squeeze in. She finally learned how to love me in way I did not know I needed. That has great value to me. I know it sounds hard to believe, but for that, on a lot of days, I am very grateful. Sometimes the total is greater than the sum of it's parts. KWIM ?