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How do you get through something like this? When the water calms down and everything is final, when your moved out of the same place and split the property/money up. I mean, I still have such strong feelings for her (even after everything she did to me). How can those feelings go away?

Moving out is the beginning. At that point, healing can start. It's different for everyone, but when you're living apart, you gradually lose that connection. It's very, very gradual - unlike that JFO moment that changes your life because it forever alters your ability to trust her.

At some point, rather than wishing things were different and you could be together again, you realize you don't care that much any more.

Just like a person in an affair revises the marriage to justify the affair, we start revising the marriage to protect our sense of loss. You forget all the little things that made you love her in the first place.

Our brains have a remarkable capacity for protecting ourselves, to rewire and revise. Both for the wayward and the betrayed.

If you feel you're divorcing for the right reasons (and right now, your wife isn't giving you much to hang your hat on), you'll get through it because your brain will do the rewiring - like it or not.

I remain surprised by your wife. Surely she understands the blow she dealt to the marriage by her ill-advised trip behavior and by sending those pictures.

How do you get over it? You suck it up and deal. She is throwing your relationship in the toilet. Ask yourself why you want to be with someone who treats you like an old pair of shoes she only puts on when the pretty new ones are uncomfortable or not available.

You choose your actions and your reactions. Do you want to be some weak guy pining after an unworthy person who values a quick ego boost over someone who loves her? No? Then skip self pity, skip excuses, cut your losses and move on. It won't be easy but the best revenge is a happy life.

I cannot offer advise from personal experience. My information is second hand. But most of my male divorce clients, especially not those saddled with child support payments or who'd had vasectomies at insistence of the now former wives, within 6 months needed women repellant spray. Every single woman, and every married woman with a single gf, made it her business to make sure newly single guy wasn't lonely too long. Of course, they had a certain agenda involving marriage. I used to tell these guys no serious relationships for a year post separation. I told them they didn't want to pay me again, and I told them I didn't want them as a repeat customer.

This advice might provide no comfort at this point when you are at a minimum mourning the loss of your marriage. But promise you'll let me know in a year if I was right or wrong.

You have to do what makes you happy. And based on her ambivalence, you'll have to do that yourself. You know you can't nice her back, and she's indifferent to the threat of divorce. Basically indifferent at least. Upset, unhappy

R is very very difficult even with a remorseful spouse.

It wont work with someone who obviously has no remorse.

You did not cause this , IUH, & you deserve so much more than this.

IUH

All of us feel your pain, and have been there is some manner before. Right now, after all of this, it is not the time to detach from the forum if you feel it has helped you. There are a lot of people here that can provide you with good advice no matter what happens.

The problem right now is that unlike when you started posting, the information the people following your thread is getting is basically two sentences “Things are about the same”, and “She’s not sure if she loves me”.

Well, she said that on May 12 and if she was sure she loved you this would not have happened so that is not news. Right now, you are getting advice and asking about D, and people are giving you advice but in the last two weeks since you posted about the VAR conversation, the comments are on the basis of no information from you. Let me say also, you have every right to tell us to stuff our advice if you choose you. You are in the house with wife and must be having some detailed conversations so I am going to ask you some question that I think would be informative to the people trying to help you and if you choose to you can answer. I think if you do you will get more specific and helpful comments that are based on knowledge not guessing. Lastly, since you are on the verge of making a major decision, I think you do not want to look back without knowing you weighed everything and got opinions you valued if you do before making the decision.

So here it goes;

Is she still sticking to story it was only a kiss and a few hugs, and if so, do you believe it??? If so, WHY????? If not, WHY???

(1) The timeline she gave you two weeks ago. Did it match what she just gave you again, and what was it and if not what did not match.

(2) Does she know about the VAR in the car? And if not, what has she said without the blah, blahs. Specifics. In the beginning you were getting her confiding to her girlfriend and then him. So has she totally stopped talking in the car.? She has not stopped talking to people!!!!

(3) Was she contacting him constantly during this, not just when you mentioned it??

(4) Do you have any information that when you went camping or or got the dirty texts from her that she either saw him or was calling him because you keep referring to it as her affair sounding like you know something.

(5) You last post indicated that you just have finally started to monitor her social media. Is that true??

(6) You originally told her toxic girlfriend need to be cut out. Then you said she still was talking to her. A lot of us think that is where her encouragement has come from but do not know.

(7) She has cried and was blowing up your phone. Is that still going on or is she just sitting there like the first time you confronted before D papers??

(8) When she told you she did not want to end A, what did she say she wanted. An open marriage???? I hope you asked what she did want.

(9) How much if any confidence do you have that in the last two weeks she has been NC and that the call that Tuesday night actually did end it. You have been down that road before

If the answers to all of these do not show any remorse or change at all, then you need to pull the plug and tell her to get an attorney. If you still do not know any more than the original story on May 12, the only chance you have to find out is to tell her if she still wants to be married she has to take a polygraph. If she refuses, you will have your answers. I just do not want to see you go through with the D with recommendations from us here that we have

given to you without hearing anything specific for two weeks or more now. I personally do not think you will or should stay married to her and can8t see why you would want to, but if there was more information there are very smart people advising you that may be able to give you better pointers.

Sorry for the long post. Whatever you do, let these people here help you as best as they can.

Don’t disappear, especially since it looks like you have also not outed this to all the families and friends that you are divorcing because of her A

Is she still sticking to story it was only a kiss and a few hugs, and if so, do you believe it??? If so, WHY????? If not, WHY???

-yes, she still sticking to this story. I know I should to believe her, but every conversation I have heard between her and the two friends of hers that know what's going on confirm it. I also read in emails between her and OP from a while ago where he states, he wish he could have F her. That she's just teasing him.

(1) The timeline she gave you two weeks ago. Did it match what she just gave you again, and what was it and if not what did not match.

-yes, the timeline basically matched up. There were way more times that she talked to him on the phone after I would go to bed and such, but I knew that from the phone records.

(2) Does she know about the VAR in the car? And if not, what has she said without the blah, blahs. Specifics. In the beginning you were getting her confiding to her girlfriend and then him. So has she totally stopped talking in the car.? She has not stopped talking to people!!!!

-it's still there and she doesn't know about it. She hasn't talked to OP in the car at least, because there has only been convos between her and her Friends. She tells them almost the same stuff she tells me. "I'm so confused on what to do". "She says I'm such a good man and husband, but she doesn't have that deep connection/passion for". "She's not sure marriage is the right thing at all for her (with me or anybody)"

(3) Was she contacting him constantly during this, not just when you mentioned it??

-she talked to him almost every day about 5 days after when she first got back from Mexico. He initiated the communication.

(4) Do you have any information that when you went camping or or got the dirty texts from her that she either saw him or was calling him because you keep referring to it as her affair sounding like you know something.

-no, she said she wasn't talking to him during that time. I confirmed it with phone records.

(5) You last post indicated that you just have finally started to monitor her social media. Is that true??

-no, I've been monitoring that from day 1

(6) You originally told her toxic girlfriend need to be cut out. Then you said she still was talking to her. A lot of us think that is where her encouragement has come from but do not know.

-I think most of the encouragement is coming from her. She doesn't talk to her much, but I have heard convos between the two of them on the call, which are the stayemts I added above.

(7) She has cried and was blowing up your phone. Is that still going on or is she just sitting there like the first time you confronted before D papers??

-No, she cries a lot now. Seems really sad that this is happening this way. She said the A is over, but she doesn't know if she. An be with me.

(8) When she told you she did not want to end A, what did she say she wanted. An open marriage???? I hope you asked what she did want.

-she wanted time to "figure it out". I told her no, we were getting a D. That night she balled and said she wanted me. She has been flip flopping in us the entire time. We had a big talk last night about how she's been flip flopping so dramatically the last few months.

(9) How much if any confidence do you have that in the last two weeks she has been NC and that the call that Tuesday night actually did end it. You have been down that road before

-exactly. I have been down this road before and I eventually catch her doing it again, which is not something I want to just wait for. That's why I'm basically saying this is over without her doing more than she is now.

IUH,

Based on those answer I agree with you. You need to tell her to get an attorney and plan to move. You stated it, she eventually will contact him again.

I did not think she was contacting him after you went to sleep. Quite honestly you should have been where you are now a long time ago knowing every time you went to sleep she jumped on phone with him.

I hope you do not let her keep fucking with your life any more. And obviously is sorry for herself, not you. She has had enough time to get her head on straight. Let her do that on her own time.

Can't see how you would want her as a wife at this point. What can she offer you but more betrayal and doubt and heartache.

Remember, everyone posting to you is still here for you. Try to be strong, but move the process ahead and get some peace for yourself. Dont know how you are functioning at work with all this going on.

IUH I sent a pm.

Your wife, with all due respect, wins the 2014 Ambivalent Trophy. If you had the A, her attitude would be understandable. But you didn't have the A, she did.

This is either one of the most diabolical plots to drive the spouse away I've seen here, or she is clueless about her own mind. I applaud you for staying sane with all this going on. Badhurt is right on the money. Except if it's not Dudley Dowrong, it will be somebody lse she can tell stuff to to quote her words. There's enough players out there that there's no shortage of volunteers.

Unless you want to live your life playing spy, decision time is arriving.

Maybe she actually has some kind of mental medical problem and she should go to a therapist. A real one that wont give her ideas like separation is a good idea.

The reason I say this is that her crying all of the time is not the actions of a well person. No matter what the circumstances, crying all of the time is not a good sign of anything.

I think it's a no brainer. You have no kids. You're still young.

Even if it's super painful now, you can marry again easily.

It sounds to me like she has an immature view of what life and love is really like. It's as if she wants the movie or romance novel version of life. She doesn't understand that even if you get swept off your feet by a dashing 18th century pirate who ravishes you, but surprisingly has a gentle and feminist side about him, life eventually gets to be humdrum. See what I mean?

she knows you're a great guy, but she yearns for crap from a romance novel. No one can compete with that, because it's fantasy. And then she goes on vacation and meets (let's just assume he's good-looking) a good-looking guy with an accent who says all the right things because he's a player, and eats that adventure and romance up. She then comes home and has a husband. An average, ordinary guy (cue the song now), that mows the lawn, picks up the dog turds and hopes that they're hard.

So she asks herself what's "wrong with me?" Why do I want something more when I have a good guy? she knows she should be content but she's not.

I don't think she's evil, just an immature dreamer that's pining for a pirate. You're not a pirate, because there aren't any.

I don't really know what to advise you. She probably needs counseling. She needs to grow up. Will she? And in the mean time, do you want to hang around? It can't be a very good feeling knowing that she's yearning for something you can't really give her. Who wants to be in this ambivalent nonsense land?

[This message edited by mike7 at 9:27 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]

People decide to divorce every day even when there is no A of any type or duration involved. Mike7 raises that point in my mind. Maybe she was moving in that direction without any good reason in her own mind. This guy appears on the beach in Mexico, and the romance fantasy begins to get real to her. Thus providing a "reason" for the loss of feeling in the M. In other words, she was using him as an excuse in her mind why things weren't right in the marriage. That at least explains why she leaned on this romantic fantasy so long when it was an absurd relationship from day one, or at least day one of no more vacation time.

All,her comments to her gf's about IUH being a great guy and she was unsure what to do, all fit this scenario. She will have to justify a D to her family and gf's. He provided an excuse of sorts she could use. Not that she cheated, but that he made her realize what was "missing" in her life. Given the number of bad husbands out there, telling these people " I got bored" isn't an acceptable reason for D. She doesn't want to get hollered at by her confidants.

Maybe I'm wrong, but by not having sex with him, the fantasy was better for her.

If she reads those ridiculous romance novels, take them away from her. I do not know what it is about them and woman, but it seems to warp their thinking.

That's why I'm basically saying this is over without her doing more than she is now.

How long are you willing to wait?

She still has a "me" identity rather than a "we" identity.

It is possible that she has not broken contact with POSOM for a few days now, but she has certainly not re-committed herself to your marriage.

"She says I'm such a good man and husband, but she doesn't have that deep connection/passion for". "She's not sure marriage is the right thing at all for her (with me or anybody)"

She is still fence-sitting, & you are in Limbo, my friend.

I have heard of people (on this site) being stuck in Limbo for YEARS.

In fact it is very comfortable for her to have a safe home base & still be able to explore *other options*.

This will go on for as long as you let it.

she cries a lot now. Seems really sad that this is happening this way. She said the A is over, but she doesn't know if she can be with me.

^^^^^^^^Cheater-speak for "Me, me, me ,me ,me". Where is the concern for what she has done to YOU?

She stood in front of family & friends & took a vow to love, honor, cherish & protect you, through thick & thin.

She has stuck a knife in your gut, & continues to twist the handle.

I don't see any remorse,any horror over her own atrocious behavior-------she is just feeling sorry for herself & regret at being caught.

Do you want a person like this to be the mother of your children?

IUH,

After your information from yesterday, I went back and reread the entire post. Since yesterday, some have responded and I would agree with them this situation really does not appear to have any happy resolution and it really is time for you to give her a dose of reality and move forward and out of limboland. My reasons for making that statement to you are these

PRE MEXICO TRIP

She has told you, and probably the only honest thing you have gotten, is that she has felt “trapped” for a year. To me, that is a translation to mean that the feeling about not being passionate about you did not begin in Mexico. I am not sure who organized the “girls only trip” to Mexico, but my guess is the toxic friend had something to do with it and I believe your wife either was part of the idea or looked upon it as a perfect opportunity to be “single” for a week end. Others went on the trip but your wife latched on to the girlfriend in “open marriage” which I do not also think was an accident, and the behavior of the two of them obviously made at least one of the other friends uncomfortable. You draw your own conclusions on what they must have been doing.

I also believe, as others have also commented on, that there was a very good possibility that you wife was on some dating site, because it is VERY suspicious that she runs into a guy who just happens to live within easy driving distance all the way in Mexico. Also, if they were only there for a week end, for heavens sake what did she do, run into him at check in at the hotel. If not, they did not even have 48 hours together.

And make no mistake about it, THIS WAS A PHYSICAL AFFAIR. Even if your e mails you saw about him wanting to fuck her are true, I know you do not believe two adults in their early thirties just made out. So I think when she is telling you they did not have sex, she is technically talking like some teenagers who do not think oral sex is sex. And she certainly planned on it when she got back and was going to give you a bull shit story and spend a week end with him. So I totally disagree with anyone who says this was not truly an affair or just an EA.

AFTER MEXICO

So she gets back and he calls her and she could have cut it off but did not. You catch her, and then you get NO REMORSE, NO TRUTH, NO N/C, AND ARE PUT IN LIMBO LAND. Some of us thought she must have a burner phone because we did not know she was actually waiting for you to go to sleep and actually having the nerve to call him directly from your home with you upstairs. Knowing that you let that go on way too long because she faced no consequences as Mcchercheur has said. You desparately trying to get to MC and R and her just feeling sorry she got caught, which is where she still is.

In her current status, I don’t think she will leave to be with Canadian because he is just a symptom. But I do think that unless you end this she will at some point make an attempt to see him. In my opinion, she has seen a taste of the single life, is really not in love with you anymore, and will find someone else to cheat with eventually. Even after all of the talks and fights, there is still no real effort to want to heal you and repair your relationship. You are now basically on trial for lack of a better word, and she is trying to figure out how to leave and finally tell you she wants to be free. She has not figured out all the details yet and like I think Mike or Schadenfreude said does not want to come across as the bad guy or bitch to all your acquaintances and family, so she will continue to disrespect you and force you to make the decision.

Having her passwords now means nothing unless you randomly go into her e mail during the day since she is aware, and it appears that none of her friends is really telling her how stupid and selfish she is being, although my guess is she is only talking to friends that will give her encouragement and not those who would blast her. And the toxic friend is probably encouraging her to do her thing.

I cannot think of what else you can possible do that you have not done to try and give her a chance. Quite frankly, I agree with some that you did not be aggressive enough in pressuring her and making it much more difficult for her to carry this on for so long. But that does not matter now. She is not going to decide she DOES love you without a real jolt if that is even possible, and the sooner you get yourself moving forward the better it will be for you.

I apologize for the long post.

In her current status, I don’t think she will leave to be with Canadian because he is just a symptom. But I do think that unless you end this she will at some point make an attempt to see him. In my opinion, she has seen a taste of the single life, is really not in love with you anymore, and will find someone else to cheat with eventually. Even after all of the talks and fights, there is still no real effort to want to heal you and repair your relationship. You are now basically on trial for lack of a better word, and she is trying to figure out how to leave and finally tell you she wants to be free. She has not figured out all the details yet and like I think Mike or Schadenfreude said does not want to come across as the bad guy or bitch to all your acquaintances and family, so she will continue to disrespect you and force you to make the decision.

^^^^^This is spot on. I 100% agree that this is what is going on right now.

IUH, have you taken any steps to further the D process along? If I were in your shoes, I would be in the attorney's office this morning, I would be helping her pack, & EVERYONE in both of our families/all of our friends would know what is going on. Infidelity is what is ending your marriage, not "lack of connection" or whatever bull$hit excuse your WW is saying right now.

slight t/j - Craig -

If she reads those ridiculous romance novels, take them away from her. I do not know what it is about them and woman, but it seems to warp their thinking.

Wow generalize, and make sexist comments much. Listen I don't find much offensive, but really this is as obnoxious as saying kids that play violent video games will go crazy and kill everyone they know in a school shooting.

Unhealthy people let fantasy take over, Not women, Not kids, Not men. but people that are weak, sick, or have poor boundaries.

End t/j

The D process is in motion. My state requires 90 days from signed papers until it goes to the judge. I have about 78 days or something left until it's final I guess.

IUH

Guessing she knows that timeline also. If you have not done it I would not wait until very close to then to sit down and discuss how to divide everything. Does she need an attorney or in your state do you just give her the papers and she signs.

You need to start to figure out your finances and what you are doing about house. With no kids, there should be no way she gets more than 1/2 of that if you own a house and sell it.

When you have this conversation be prepared for a lot more crying from her. And don't be surprised if she tries to hook up with the Canadian to make sure in her mind she is doing the right thing.

I'd keep monitoring the VAR and everything just to try to not get any surprises.

And if she is going off some where this week end, you better be alert.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 12:24 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]

I don't think we will have any problem splitting our house after we sell it and the $$. It will be 50/50, even though I feel like I should talked 80