SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello menz!

Im readg a book on helping a man change that states:

"If you (the wife/woman) decide to leave him he will probably choose at that moment to promise changes. His motivation to change will soar but his ability to change will still be low, without your help and persistence in the relationship. A man truly cannot fix a relationship all by himself, even if he is the one who has been causing the problems"

"Remember, the old ways must stop before new ways are to begin. And you (the wife/woman) must be the one to stop them, because he is not going to stop in his own. "

"Your husbands anger is like a fire, burning your relationship down. Its not a time for patience. You (the wife/woman) will have to take action-its not just going to stop all by itself"

"He's not likely to emotionally 'get it' until after things start getting better"

These and other references to the woman in the relationship being the driver of change. Please let me know if u agree. Thanks.

Lol, really? Change the sexes in that equation. Does it work the same?

Marriage takes two equal partners with an equal interest in making it work.

Anything less isn't a marriage. IMO

Imissmyhusb,

In a word...No.

Reading those few points it seems the original author feels men are inherently incapable of change, angry and emotionally stunted.

5454real is right. It takes partnership. Partnership takes patience, understanding and accountability.

Hello Menz! Absolutely love this thread!

Do you like the way your wife/SO dresses? Do you wish she would dress differently?

Immh, I see this as a massive overgeneralization based on gender stereotypes.

No single person can fix a relationship in any case. If a relationship is broken, every member has to work to repair it, even if only one person blew it up.

I think the driver of a change is the person who's dissatisfied and asks for a change.

How does the author explain the BHes who R with WWs?

How does the author explain the BHes who R with WWs?

He doesnt. The book is about how women can help men to change.

Thanks for all the replies

I'm not a menz, but:

A man truly cannot fix a relationship all by himself, even if he is the one who has been causing the problems"

BULLSHIT. BULL!SHIT! A lazy self-centered fuck can't fix his own shit, but a REAL MAN knows how to look for advice and resources.

"Remember, the old ways must stop before new ways are to begin. And you (the wife/woman) must be the one to stop them, because he is not going to stop in his own. "

BULLSHIT. I agree men are pretty simple-minded (hee hee), but that's BULLSHIT that men can't take responsibility for their OWN fucking actions. The woman should NOT have to point them all out to him

"He's not likely to emotionally 'get it' until after things start getting better"

BULLSHIT. There's this thing called "rock bottom" that men AND women hit, and sometimes THAT is when things start getting better.

These and other references to the woman in the relationship being the driver of change. Please let me know if u agree. Thanks.

I'm gonna agree women are more "emotional" then men, and perhaps in healthy relationships, the woman is more sensitive to these topics, but what a horrible author to lessen the importance of a man and his abilities here. Men are stronger than this article gives them credit for. By light years.

PS- Hi Menz! Miss this thread! Smooches!

[This message edited by ButterflyGirl at 9:59 PM, September 28th (Sunday)]

Don't want you to feel left out lilylilith.

I liked how WW dressed. early on in M she wanted to wear what i considered somewhat revealing clothes, spaghetti strap tank-tops. She has dd-cups, so anything that had a low collar or bared shoulders with a lower collar made me uncomfortable.

Don't think she ever really appreciated my concern about her clothes being too revealing. She probably resents me for 'hiding' her beauty. She never dressed up for "just" me. She had 8 different nighties and i think she wore them all a total of 13 times combined over 5 years.

@imissmyhub

the only thing i would say in disagreement with butterflygirl is that menz do need help, and withholding it is harmful.

I had trouble with porn early in M, and there was the typical foo behavior differences regarding how to run a household. When i asked for help with either issue for the betterment of M she told me

1)i won't reward you, your not a dog

2)i won't punish you, i'm not your mom.

3) you're an adult i shouldn't have to baby you

She refused positive and negative reinforcement as means to help me personally and to the betterment of our relationship. A big warning sign i should have worked on earlier on.

If a guy knows his limitations, or just asks for help regardless of limits, don't leave him to himself. It shows you don't care. Partners don't leave you to fend for yourself. You might survive, but it won't be because they cared/helped.

I'm a little bitter about ^^^^^

Just my opinion...

I LOVE how my wife dresses. Very classy, never too revealing, but always well put-together and coordinated.

menz do need help, and withholding it is harmful

If a guy knows his limitations, or just asks for help regardless of limits, don't leave him to himself. It shows you don't care. Partners don't leave you to fend for yourself

I think this is the idea the author is tryg to convey.

I was a bit like your wife, thought he was being lazy and tryg to get over at times when he really needed help. He says this is what distanced him from me. I know it doesnt excuse the cheatg, but it helps me to understand his thoughts and feelgs at the time.

I saw him as a much stronger person. Makes me feel like crap that i didnt know him well enuf and now he has become emotionally attached to someone else.

A man truly cannot fix a relationship all by himself

No man or woman can change a relationship that is based on two people by him or herself. You can change your relationship with your own self by yourself, but we call that self-improvement, self-awareness, etc.

But if you're in a relationship, whether it's friendship, marriage, parental, etc, the dynamic of two people are required to "fix it". The actions to fix it of one, and the receptiveness for those actions from the other. And this:

, even if he is the one who has been causing the problems

Tells me the author is not ready to be very receptive to those actions, and it's just driving on experience with one or two relationships (where's the research?)

The initiator of change, can be either party, and eventually they both should drive, as in giving equally of themselves. Otherwise it's not a relationship. Both waiting for the other one to start doing something (change the relationship) you both want to do is, well, dumb. I think it doesn't matter who initiates as long as they both drive, a bit him and a bit her. Who decides to start is usually what's the problem.

Interestingly, you know the last text about our relationship I got from stbxww? It said I can't fix it. So I guess it happens with women too? Hmmmmm....

Re: Dressing, always liked the way stbxww dressed, and I always noted it. Today I try not to think about that.

T/J on dress:

My W has always dressed modestly, except that some of the mini-dresses she wore seemed modest enough when she bought them, but not a year later. I still remember one really beautiful dress that really should have been a top....

Ah, the '60s....

The initiator of change, can be either party, and eventually they both should drive, as in giving equally of themselves

Yes this is what the author means, IMO, because i also read in this book that the man believes what he is doing is fine so he has no motivation to change. The woman has to get the ball rollg.

Ok i get it now, i think LOL. thanks

To the menz who have been described as messy, a slob, etc.

Does your wife/SO clean up behind u? Does she make a fuss or not? Or do u end up cleang it up?

Yes this is what the author means, IMO, because i also read in this book that the man believes what he is doing is fine so he has no motivation to change. The woman has to get the ball rollg.

So what is rolling?

If you tell your partner an issue, or,problem, or boundary, and the partner (man) just drops/rugsweeps it, after a time, a woman (or any person) will tire of being the pusher.

Specific example: I calmly Told my H i wouldn't stay if he continued to choose porn.

Because this has been an issue for years, I didn't push further, and neither did HE. At all. Rugswept.

Men, if your wife states look, I'm ready to leave over a problem (and she's never threatened leaving before) wouldn't that be high time to pick up the ball and start fixing things? Or must she push MORE? How much needs to be spelled out?

Clean up behind me, LOL. I do 95% of all the house work.

I do all of the cooking during the week ( I always have).

I also work 8 hours a day and commute 2 hours a day.

You know what I don't have a problem with any of that until I get taken for granted.

I thin everyone should clean up after themselves. My fWW is not my mother so I would not expect her to clean up after me.

Besides I am a better house keeper than her.

Men, if your wife states look, I'm ready to leave over a problem (and she's never threatened leaving before) wouldn't that be high time to pick up the ball and start fixing things? Or must she push MORE? How much needs to be spelled out?

I think this is going to depend heavily on what exactly the specific issue at hand is.

I don't want to sound rude here, but just because your spouse identifies something as a 'problem', doesn't mean that it objectively is. What it really means is "I don't like this action/attitude/behavior that you exhibit."

I mean, I know lots of guys whose wives don't like how much time they spend with their buddies or watching sports or playing softball, or whatever. I would never tell them they should stop just because their spouse doesn't like it. (Now there're exceptions to this, i.e. if hobbies are getting to the point of becoming addictions or whatever...but even that gets blurry) If we're being honest...if I had a friend who had a (healthy) hobby he really enjoyed, and it wasn't taken to a self-destructive level, I'd probably tell him to change his spouse before he robbed his life of his favorite things.

Flipping this around, when presented with the wife's side of things, I'd ask why she kept expecting her lazy-ass (or porn-abusing, etc.) husband to suddenly be someone else when he has very clearly shown you what his personal habits are likely to be going forward. You can spend a whole bunch of energy getting mad and trying to change him, or you can accept that is who he is and make your choices accordingly.

I'm ADD. I hyperfocus and forget things I've said I'd do.

My W has to do something to get my attention. Sometimes it's just asking for my attention; sometimes she's got to touch me to pull me out of whatever I'm doing.

What works for us bet is setting a deadline. My W relaxes about my tasks. If I miss the deadline, then she takes an agreed action. For example, I'll agree to get something fixed by a certain time or date. If I miss the deadline, my W will engage someone to fix it.

I guess it's a subset of boundaries/limits & consequences....

Bumping for the Blow or not to blow thread since there is some useful info here re that topic.

That's a lot of homework there yop

Question: I see that a lot of guys are willing to put up with there spouse not wanting to do anal. (I happen to physically enjoy it, but I can see all the stigma associated to it).

But is blow jobs, like, something you would be more upset than anal to have to give up if your wife didn't enjoy doing it?

Looking back, would not wanting to give blow jobs be a dealbreaker early on in a relationship? Is it one of those things you would really REALLY rather not have to give up if it bothers the woman too much?

Are there any sexual acts that would be dealbreakers for you if we didn't want to do it?

(Granted, if we have that much of a problem with some things, we probably have some past experiences that could use some work, but I don't know how to get us to do that work if we don't want to. Especially if it's just so we eat your pickle It would probably have to come from a place of you wanting us to heal from whatever happened to us.)