SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's all about pushing yourself to failure, turning purple on the last couple of reps. Darden,Phillips, Mentzer-same deal-get to failure.

Then, as RIP must know, you have to eat right, too.

Okay, I am getting psyched to go at it again after years flying a desl. Should be nice and painful.

Craigs list was my WH's A, I hold a special place for that rag in my heart.

I know you love her, that is so clear.

YOu will make it through this. And I still think she doesn't deserve you.

/super bear hug!

Oh (((Livingon)))

What hurtful things for your WW to say in the instant of your discovery! This is going to be VERY intense to heal from, and I am speaking of both the A's as well as the demeaning comments she "gifted" you with. I feel your pain in your words and wish there was something I could say to make it better.

The fact is that your WW has to start saying and doing things, lots of them, for you to have any chance of healing from this. And you need to tell whoever the jokers are who are counseling her that when they say you have to lay off because you are hurting her if they have given any thought to her failure to lay off of the other men was and is hurting you immensely!

And as a matter of fact, DO NOT believe a word she says...not a single word. MANY WS's lie about what they are getting in IC as a way to get their way and make it easier on them. After all, your laying off is EXACTLY what she wants...sweep under the rug. Isn't it a coincidence that this is EXACTLY what her IC is saying???

Somebody mentioned her kissing adoring children. What about the herpes? Can they not pick it up from her? So much for her kissing the kids.

And a huge part of being a good parent is about modeling appropriate behavior as well as making choices her kids would be proud of, of living the best life that you want for them to have? I'm sorry to say that she fails in the good mom department, miserably!

She was wearing protection, but not during oral.

If she was wearing the protection then I assume you are speaking of female condoms. But if that were the case, wouldn't she not get the genital form of herpes? And if she was wearing a female condom then how would she know about the squirting? Her facts are a little shakey.

Do take care of yourself and at the very least find a decent IC for yourself. There are some out there who will take a fee based on a sliding scale. And decide on conditions you need for your WW to adhere to and be unwavering. If she does not comply then it's time to walk! Don't back down on them as that is often taken as a free ticket for the WS to do whatever they please.

You mentioned putting a tracker on her phone that she knows about. Keep an eye out for a prepaid phone and often it's easier to find the charger for one than the phone itself. Also, it's time to put a keylogger on the computer that she DOES NOT KNOW ABOUT. You may get some answers from that.

PS - Consider the probability that she would have picked up herpes from just 2 encounters...and 2 types of herpes. Yes it's rampant out there but I think the likelihood is still rather slim. I'm afraid there is much more you don't know about.

But I wasn't tested. I can't have anything she didn't test positive for, right? I've never been with anyone else.

She would have told me the truth about the condoms. I had actually assumed it was unprotected at first, and I asked her if they came inside or withdrew or what, but her response was, "they wore a condom!" Unless it was oral, and they didn't.

LO, oh my goodness, please get tested.  Sometimes HIV will not show up for a while, so periodic testing will be needed.  Also, be aware that there is no test for HPV ....  See: http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv-and-men.htm

Here is something I wrote In A different thread:

Our waywards are putting our LIVES at risk. Whether we have been infected with a curable STD or a non-curable STD, our lives have been put at the same exact risk when our waywards have sex outside their primary relationship, EVEN IF THEY WEAR A CONDOM!!!!

How many times have you been aware of your partner fumbling around in the dark with condom after there is a bit of pre-ejaculate on his penis, started to unroll the condom, realizes it is backwards, flips around, rolls it down? What do you think is on that other side of the condom? Think about it.

Those fucking idiots that believe oral sex is 'not intimate, or safe' ??? Think again... Get that face buried down in that pussy, or get that mouth wrapped around a dick and ask your self, "when did I last have my teeth cleaned? Or 'did my gums bleed this morning when I flossed'? Ever wondered how many tiny little cuts in you mouth are avenues of transmission for disease?

LO, you know I am one of the very few posters supportive of your desire to R, if that is what you chose, BUT you need to do a little more digging into what a horrific danger your WW has put herself, and YOU into. I do honestly believe that she somewhat naively wound up on Craigs list, not realizing that.Craigs List people are some of the most vile of them all...these men are looking for easy, FREE (even the ad is free), NSA sex. Go here to learn a little more about the underbelly of this world...http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=1

I believe that if you two look at some of this info TOGETHER, she will be shamed, and may benefit from this type of 'in your face' aversion therapy.

I made my FWH look at all sorts of disgusting pics of STD diseased sexual organs, (the HPV genital wart covered penis was particularly frightening)...

A little more food for thought:

STD's - The Silent Killers

Since the "sexual revolution" of the 60's, the number of know sexually transmitted diseases has gone from 2 to 25.  Many are a-symptomatic - there are no visible signs.  Some diseases cause temporary symptoms (such as sores and warts) but are still transmittable when they are not present.

The only 100% effective way of preventing the transmission of sexually transmitted disease is by remaining abstinent until marriage an uninfected partner and then being mutually faithful within your marital commitment.  Anything less is like playing Russian Roulette.

HPV:  The Human Papilloma Virus

THERE IS NO CURE:  Once you've got it, you'll always have it.

MAY CAUSE WARTS ON THE ANUS, GENITALS, MOUTH, THROAT

WARTS MUST BE SCRAPED, BURNED, OR CUT OFF

SPREAD BY SKIN CONTACT:  Condoms are virtually useless.

CAUSES CERVICAL, VULVAR, AND PENILE CANCER:  Kills more women each year than AIDS

AS MANY AS 80% OF SEXUALLY ACTIVE ADULTS ARE INFECTED.

Chlamydia

CARRIERS OFTEN HAVE NO SYMPTOMS

MOST COMMON NON

VIRAL STD IN THE U.S.

FOUR MILLION NEW INFECTIONS A YEAR

CAUSES PELVIC INFLAMMATORY DISEASE (PID), ECTOPIC PREGNANCY, AND INFERTILITY AMONG WOMEN

TEENAGE FEMALES ARE MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO INFECTION THAN ADULTS

AIDS:  Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome

CAUSED BY HIV INFECTION

THERE IS NO CURE:  Medications simply postpone death.

SPREAD THROUGH THE EXCHANGE OF BODY FLUIDS:  Condoms decrease but do NOT eliminate risk.

NO INITIAL SYMPTOMS:  Millions are infected and don't know it.

TEENS ARE MORE SUSCEPTIBLE THAN ADULTS

DEVELOPS INTO HEALTH COMPLICATIONS SUCH AS CANCER, HEART PROBLEMS, AND NERVOUS DISORDERS

Genital Herpes

NO KNOWN CURE:  Once you've got it, you'll always have it.

CAUSES OPEN SORES ON THE ANUS, GENITALS, MOUTH

CONTAGIOUS EVEN WHEN NO SORES ARE PRESENT

SPREAD BY SKIN CONTACT:  Condoms are virtually useless

INCREASES CHANCES OF GETTING OTHER STD'S, INCLUDING HIV/AIDS

1/3 OF SEXUALLY ACTIVE PEOPLE ARE INFECTED

Syphillis

BACTERIAL INFECTION:  Can be treated with early diagnosis

CHANCRE SORES APPEAR ABOUT 3 WEEKS AFTER EXPOSURE:  Could be internal and therefore unnoticed.

IF LEFT UNTREATED WILL BECOME LIFE THREATENING

CAN CAUSE BLINDNESS, HEART DISEASE, NERVOUS DISORDERS, INSANITY, TUMORS, AND DEATH

ABOUT 100,000 NEW INFECTIONS ANNUALLY

Gonorrhea: New Strains Resist Treatment

As drug-resistant strains of gonorrhea continue to emerge, successful treatment of this sexually transmitted disease (STD) is becoming more difficult. In the 1980s, gonorrhea became resistant to penicillin and tetracycline, rendering these drugs ineffective treatment for gonorrhea.

If not treated successfully, gonorrhea can cause pelvic inflammatory disease (PID), infertility, ectopic pregnancy, and chronic pelvic pain. Previous studies also have shown that gonorrhea can facilitate HIV transmission.

Source: Centers for Disease Control, National Center for HIV, STD, & TB Prevention

Just wanted to send you well wishes...

Enchantress - every time I hear "craigslist" I get sick. In fact, I was on a trip to San Francisco one month after D-Day, and someone who didn't know what I was dealing with said, "hey, there's Craigslist!" I wanted to go in there and do some damage. I love her, yes, I sometimes I don't want to or I wonder why. Thanks for the encouragement and the super bear hug.

seriouslylostit - thanks for the sympathy. I didn't mean to say "she was wearing" - the other men used condoms. 2 and 4.

I seriously hope my daughters won't get herpes from kissing them!!! I think she may have picked it up before we even met and we just never knew, but still, it only takes one encounter to get it, right?

Painpaingoaway - the STD issue is very disturbing. We did cover this. I even found a post that the first guy she had sex with posted a response to an ad showing another guys penis, and I made her look because he might have also been having sex with other men! That was aversion therapy. She is thoroughly disgusted with herself.

who?me? - thank you.

Hey everyone, as I was typing up these responses I had to leave for a moment and when I came back my wife left a gift for me in front of my keyboard. It was dark chocolate covered goji berries an a card. I was a little numb to it when I saw it, but since I haven't slept in the same bed with her for several nights, and, I'm kind of doing some of the 180 things like not trying to see what she's doing, etc., I was surprised. She is going to individual counseling and I found out that she even called to talk to her one day without telling me. She was asking for help.

In the card, she wrote that she wanted me to know that she loved me. She told me reasons why. She complimented me. She said we needed to re-start and that she wanted to. She said she chooses me, loves me, and that it's a hard place we are at now but she wants to get through it. She said this marriage is worth saving for us and for our girls, and that God can help us love his way and forgive his way. She said, "thank you, a million times and more for staying, for not giving up."

She saw me reading it and came up to me and put her arm around me and told me she loves me, even if I don't come to bed. You see, that is progress!

I thanked her and she left, and then I broke down. Emotions are too high and these meds are making me feel horrible.

So while I'm encouraged, I wonder how long it will last. It's a roller-coaster to try R, then prepare for D, then back. To let myself love her like I always have, or distance myself for safety and ween myself off and away.

I will take this good moment and encourage it, but I also want to make sure I don't go back to some old habits. I'm going to check on her less, get in even better shape, etc...

I'm trying to find a doctor who can evaluate the meds I'm on and see why they're kicking my ass and turning me into a depressed zombie.

Living on,

You seem to be in denial about how badly broken your WW is. It has only been what, a few months? My God man, 8-10 different men?? At least prostitutes get paid. By the way, are you sure she wasn’t?

Then she tells you that your dick is too small?

Listen to yourself: “ I have had some blistering” Get off the meds so you can think clearly! Put the chocolate berries down and get an attorney. She may be beautiful but that should not be driving your decision. Do you think that will last forever? Over time things start to sag, wrinkle and turn grey. Looks are not enough.

[This message edited by betrayedONE at 2:17 PM, April 15th (Friday)]

Livingon,

Im so sorry to hear about your situation. Its very unfortunate what unfaithful women will do when they are unsatisfied. You are an encouragement to me that you are holding strong to reconcile. If possible, I believe that reconciliation can restore a relationship to stronger than it was before and can be less taxing than a divorce. Although I cannot say for sure because I have never divorced. I recently found out my wife screwed my best friend. She said it was the best sex she had and said it was because his dick was longer and thicker. So I understand any selfesteem issues you may be experiencing. I also am on an antidepressant. I have found that they tend to make me feel tired after I take them, so I take it before I go to bed. I would recommend continuing your treatment plan with your doctor and be sure to take the same amount of lexapro at the same time every day. I will not tell you whether to stay or leave as that is your decision. Though I completely understand how difficult the decision is. If you have time, read the story of Hosea in the Bible. God calls a man to reconcile his relationship with his prostitute wife, and his wife didn't even want to be with him! Im proud of you and encouraged! Keep it up!! You and I represent all the men out there who have never cheated and yet have chosen to reconcile with our whorish wives!

Have you got a good therapist?

If you don't, you need one.

Meds alone aren't going to work.

The body can have chemical imbalances that can lead to or worsen depression, but there is also situational depression, and no amount of drugs can "cure" that... and there is no doubt in my mind that you're dealing with a situational depression.

I.E. - you're not depressed because you have a chemical imbalance, you're depressed because you found out the love of your life was trolling for men on craigslist, brought you home a gift that'll keep on giving till the day you die, and then mocked you for it.

My sister was murdered 9 years ago, I tried the drug route and guess what? It didn't help a bit, because I wasn't sad due to a biological anomaly, I was sad because some bastard bashed my sister's head in.

I didn't start to get better until I addressed the root of my sadness, and that took therapy... LOTS of it.

After all the antidepressants I took for years I was still depressed, still sad. And then I finally found the right doctor who after doing tests, and speaking with me determined that all my levels were exactly right.

So the drugs did nothing but make things worse for me, since there was no "physical" issue in my case I got no medical benefit from the drugs, just the lousy side effects.

My issue was that I had a hard time coming to grips with what had happened to her, what had happened to my family, and me because of that... and as my therapist said, how I was feeling was only natural, because I was living and dealing with an extremely unnatural situation.

Took me a long time of trying to "get better" and "understand" what had happened before I finally got to the point where I could come to terms with the fact that it would NEVER "get better" because she was gone... and it took even longer to get a grip on the fact that I'd never understand what had happen, because a sane person can never make sense of an insane person's actions.

My entire life had changed, and it would never be the same again. I would never be the same again, and that was an extremely confusing, depressing thing to deal with.

Get yourself a good therapist, you're dealing with a traumatic experience, not just a chemical imbalance.

Your body isn't broken due to some genetic anomaly that can be "fixed" through traditional medical science, like diabetes.

Someone BROKE you, and then picked at the wounds, and that kind of malice isn't going to go away with drugs alone.

Obviously you could have chemical imbalances that are making dealing with the fallout of what happened to you worse, and medication would help in such a scenario, but even in such a situation addressing the chemical imbalance still won't "fix" the fact that you're sad and depressed over what's happened, because that's an entirely separate issue and requires entirely separate treatment.

Be good to yourself, seek counseling, and I wish you the best of luck.

double post

[This message edited by Dearlord at 3:23 PM, April 15th (Friday)]

betrayedone - If I was in denial I wouldn't be having such a hard time with this. She met 8 different men for coffee, kissed 5 of them, and had an EA with one and a PA with two. Corresponded with dozens of others, no doubt. All over a 3 month period, and the sex occurred within 8 and 1.5 days of me catching this. I did ask her if she paid or was paid, but nope. She never said mine was too small, she just said the others were bigger than me, and then later she told me that didn't matter and didn't make it better. Although I can't argue with the physical facts of squirting.

I had blistering before but figured it was just frequent sex, and yeah, that sucks too.

Her beauty is not driving my decision, it's keeping my family intact if it's the right thing to do, and although I certainly have the right to leave her, if there's a chance we can get through this I am willing to try. I'm going by what most experts in this area say; that a couple can survive this and end up okay, with a stronger marriage. I can't really see how that's possible right now, but if I don't try I'll never know.

hurtconfusedmad - yeah, I weighed my options and a divorce would create another set of problems. I can't win no matter what, I just have to figure out which option is less bad. They can both end up okay, and which path will end up being more okay. I don't know how I would handle it if it were my best friend, and being told what you were. Was that when she was still in the fog? Did she ever apologize? Did your "best friend" ever apologize? They both really screwed you over, the two closest people in your life, and that is something incredibly painful. I did read the story of Hosea, but it didn't make me feel any better. I view that one as an isolated incident where God wanted to make a point and use Hosea to illustrate his love for Israel. It's like Job - if we go through hell are we to believe that Satan made another bet with God about whether or not we would turn away? I just don't believe that happens anymore and it was a one time thing. What has helped me is Ephesians 5. I also think about how even though Jesus said we could divorce for this, he also told the woman at the well he knew she was screwing around with other men, and to go back to her husband. I still have a long road as I'm sure you do, too, and you also encourage me! Thank you.

Dearlord - I met with a good therapist twice, but that wasn't enough but the cost was too much at the wrong time. I would benefit from seeing one, though, for sure. I was told by may doctors that I needed to be on these antidepressants. I fought it for 8 months and gave it up when I lost my job, then I started taking them. They explained that I had too much of whatever breaks down the serotonin in your brain, and these antidepressants, the Lexapro (and other SSRI's) would stop the breakdown so I could build up enough serotonin again. Once that pattern was established I can get off it, so I have to be on for at least 3 months. The Inderal (I'm taking the generic Propranolol), a beta blocker, is supposed to just cut off the adrenaline affects to the brain and keep my heart rate from going crazy. It's all making me crazy tired and dizzy. I also spoke to a psychiatrist who actually told me that if I didn't take an antidepressant for what has happened to me, that would be as irresponsible as someone with diabetes who never got treated. I think you do have a point as well, because heartbreak is still heartbreak, and no matter what these meds do to your brain you're still going to be heartbroken. I feel that, too. Sucks that you have to deal with the murder of your sister and be on this forum to deal with this. Sorry. And thank you.

I spoke to my doc today, and she said I could switch out the Lexapro with Cymbalta if I wanted. I'm going to look it up now. Anyone know anything about it?

Try contacting your local mental heath department, they can usually set you up with low, or even no cost therapy.

The drugs will help with the physical issues, but they're going to do nothing for the trauma, that requires a different treatment.

Talking with someone who can help you make sense of it all, or even explain the reasons for why there is no making sense of it all is I think what you need.

You seem to be very confused, and in a sort of shock. I've been there myself, so I recognize the signs.

Talking with a good therapist can sometimes do wonders. If nothing just having an unbiased, unattached person as a sounding board is such a load off during times like these.

Take care of yourself.

She was asking for help.

A step in the right direction....

She said she chooses me,

That's great, but that's not the issue, the issue is----DO YOU CHOOSE HER?

She said, "thank you, a million times and more for staying, for not giving up."

Make it clear to her that your ability and willingness to stay, depends on HER ability to heal you in the way you need to be healed, and at this point, you are not even entirely sure that it is even possible, or if it is in your best interest.

and that God can help us love his way and forgive his way

God, can help, but SHE must do the hard work of making amends to those she has harmed...R is not a sprint, it is a marathon. R is a long, grueling process, and you reserve the right to stop at any point and reassess the cost/benefit to your well-being.

Peace.

PPGA

LO,

The Inderal (I'm taking the generic Propranolol), a beta blocker, is supposed to just cut off the adrenaline affects to the brain and keep my heart rate from going crazy. It's all making me crazy tired and dizzy.

I too, was put on beta-blockers after D-day... I believe you may be on too high of a dose if you are experiencing dizziness and are overly tired...please call your docs office...they may very well just tell you over the phone to reduce the dose. It's just a phone call.

Painpain is correct that the proper question is: "Does L.O. choose WW?" Her time for choosing was last year and she chose wrong. The ball is now in L.O.'s court.

i truly just wanted to say that i feel your pain. i know that Hell. i have been in all the exact emotional places your have visited in your darkest hours. i have often wondered if i am some "unique" brand of BS that simply cannot get out of the pit.

we all hurt like you, like this and for a very long time...thank you PTSD.

i don't believe in your wife, or in you or your desire to R...but i completely believe in Marriage. the Divine design of the sacrament.

a genuine change, at it's very core, is possible. Please, protect and take care of yourself. the road is rough.

but if you have support, good treatment in regards to therapy and medication therapy (if applicable) your M really can be better. Built on Rock...not sand.

your WS needs to do the work to figure out what is broken within HER. this is NOT about you, your wealth, or any physical attributes. you are wonderfully made...you are currently not being appreciated or loved for all you are. this is the hardest part to accept.

i do believe there is truth to the "shock" theory. i know i stayed in a state of shock for a period of time that my therapist(s) said was quite longer than the average. i had other factors in my situation that contributed to that.

i believe in your will to live and to be the best YOU can be and are called to be, and NEED to be, for your children.

all my best to you!

Dear LivingOn.

I am certainly not qualified to offer much advice as it has been only D-Day +47 days for me. however, I can relate to your severe pain & emotional roller coaster.

What has helped me cope is IC (although I can appreciate the medical insurance factor), exercise & 180...my WW has yet to express any remorse & these anxiety feelings related to the evaporation of a long-term relationship are definitely unbearable some days.

Please do take care of YOURSELF and be as strong as you can be for your kids. As others have already stated on SI, you are NOT alone & we are here to support each other.

SoCalGuy

LivingOn,

Brother, I am so sorry that you are here.

No matter what differing advice you are getting, we can ALL tell the amount of emotional pain that you are in.

Pain and palerider wrote:

Painpain is correct that the proper question is: "Does L.O. choose WW?" Her time for choosing was last year and she chose wrong. The ball is now in L.O.'s court.

It looks so obvious to me that you choose your WW. No doubts here about how much you love her.

But I can't help but think that you won't escape some of this emotional pain unless your WW goes all out in helping you. Your comments here scream to me that all you want right now is her full efforts to help you heal--which you are not getting.

This is a huge part of what we call the "heavy lifting" necessary by the WS to try and save the marriage. Your WW isn't doing this....and it is eating you up.

I have read many stories where the WW has to heal themselves first to then be able to heal their BS, but I can't always agree with this. Everybody is different, and many BSs CAN'T WAIT for their spouses to heal themselves---while they are dying on the sidelines.

I truly see this as your immovable obstacle to healing. And I think it is important that your WW knows this.

Because one day you might pass the point of no return. You might die enough inside that you can't be brought back to the person you once again hope to be, no matter who you are with.

She can't heal you--that has to be from within--but she is the driving factor to your healing, and she has to take control of this situation if the two of you have a chance.

How long can you endure living like this? Another month? A year? Longer?

I don't think so.

Please get this message across to your WW in whatever means necessary, if you still want to try and R. She may be sorry and defogging, but she isn't there yet. Because if she was, she would be all over you---and notes aren't enough. Her efforts have to be monumental--that goes for ALL WSs--to have a CHANCE of saving a marriage.

Good luck.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 4:45 AM, April 16th (Saturday)]

Hi LO,

I take Cymbalta, it has helped me a great deal. Had to raise it to 60 mg a day to get a good effect, and no real side effects. Good luck!