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Do you really want to spend the rest of your life wonering?

She has also said more than once, let it go or let me go.

Well, maybe you should tell her you've had enough and to go.

At least you'll get an answer to your question.

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 3:34 PM, June 19th (Thursday)]

To play the Devil's Advocate, from her point-of-view, we have discussed this in depth over three times and she has been honest with me at all times.

Sorry - but bullshit. That 'let it go or let me go' is her way of saying she will not answer. In other words, her keeping her 'secret' means more than your feelings over it. 30 years of marriage, and that's her response?

I'd be straight with her - you think she's lying, and if she wants to leave over not being honest, then go.

If it were me, at this point, I'd rather hold that door wide open than be bullied (yes, that's what she's doing) into silence with these 'threats' of ending the marriage.

With all due respect to some of the other members here, I'm pretty ticked to see your feelings downplayed like this.

Skimming through the thread I see that you were exclusively dating, possibly engaged. That your WW had en EA that headed to PA territory. That the "I forgot" is likely a lie based on her response to the picture.

She knows and she remembers, likely because she felt guilty about it. This wasn't a single woman sowing her wild oats. It was a cheating GF or fiancé.

Of course you feel bad about it. You're entire M is based on the lie of fidelity. When she made her vows to you, she had already broken them. Your entire truth has been rewritten. These years have shifted to a new reality. OF COURSE you're in pain. 5 days or 50 years, newly discovered betrayal hurts and needs to be processed.

As for your WW , she needs to get out of the wayward mindset of protecting herself and the OM over you. In Not Just Friends, the author refers to this as windows and walls. Your WW is keeping walls between the two of you and windows between her and the OM. That needs to switch. She needs to repair the rift a lifetime of lies has caused in the M by just giving you the truth. That she isn't tells you where her priorities lie.

In Not Just Friends, the author refers to this as windows and walls. Your WW is keeping walls between the two of you and windows between her and the OM.

You might have your wife read that book. That way she can understand your feelings and your point of view as written by an authoritative author on the subject instead of just hearing this from you.

Thanks again for your input. Craig, I've just ordered Not Just Friends. I see that mentioned in your last post and many places elsewhere on this site.

I was thinking about IC. Have any of you had experience with it and, if so, was it positive or what. My insurance covers the first three sessions and that should at least let me vent and perhaps rouse the wife to the realization this problem I have is not just a "let it go" thing.

Of course, also been giving a lot of thought about her veiled threats of leaving. At the moment, the good, bad, and ugly repercussions of such a thing are bouncing around in my head and culminate into this thought: Can I let it go? If not, is it worth it to pursue counseling, etc., with the chance of a split and might be for good?

If you want to talk to someone, IC can be good.

But the letting it go is more likely in your nature. There is something there and you need and or would like to know.

Considering her words and actions, it makes you more suspicious.

The more problem is also, does she really not remember. Who knows how a persons mind works.

Is there anyone else you can ask about that day/night. A simple question of who was there.

What about her girlfriend.

Once she reads the book and sees why you need to know, then decide what to do.

Does your wife see this as cheating on you?

Hi, just checking in to let y'all know I'm still pursuing answers to my questions; albeit slow going. The book ordered Not Just Friends should arrive any day now as I plan to read it posthaste. Many posts talk about that book giving the "cheater" insight as to how the spouse feels, etc. If this holds out as true, I'm going to use it as my way in - to the truth.

BTW, we are getting along great as I am able to compartmentalize this grievous part of my life for now, assuming, all along, that I am steadily working to get answers. In time, my friends, in time. I will let you know how it goes...

That book has helped more than a few WW's finally get it. It seems that when we tell them something, they dont listen and they dont believe us.

That somehow we are BSing them. But when they read the same exact thing out of a book by an author that seems to know their stuff, they then pay attention.

If that fails. Sometimes turning it all around helps them get it.

Asking her, how she would feel today, if the situation were reversed. You did this ONS and never told her who it was with. How would she feel?

To make that point work, the WS really has to be honest with themselves and answer it.

Otherwise, you will get the, Oh, I would just get over it and forget it.

NO, we know darn good and well most of our wives would not happily go on without wondering who it was, especially if it had been with one of their friends.

Hey OS, did you ever get the chance to check these out in the WW forum? May be a bit more than what you need but may help you explain a few things to your wife:

How much does my BS hurt? ...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=327446

Things that every WS needs to know

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250

yop

Yearsofpain... wow, that WW forum is something else. Bet I spent three hours reading about SoSorry and Swat. Wish them the best, though.

Twice, in the past three or four days, my wife looks up and says, "I love you!" in the most sincere tone. When it happened today, I asked why she loved me, to which she replied, "You take care of me." I have been extra attentive in the last few weeks, but a some of that, we know, is me working toward relaxing her, and then asking those questions again and hoping for the answers this time.

It occurred to me on the way to the store to buy soup for her (just had a minor oral surgery) that I may be shooting myself in the foot. Might it get to the point that she is so fallen back into love that she would never risk losing that over some things that happened long ago. I mean, lying by omission (TT) is still lying. Would she jeopardize her good "thang?" Or, be drawn so close her heart would have to spill the truth?

So, I have been going on the assumption that in fight mode, women will shut down and the one way to open her up to calm discussion and full disclosure would be what I'm doing now. And waiting for the timing. Ladies out there, especially, any thoughts. P.S. I am generally treat her very well, so my behavior is not a total ruse. I've just been laying it on thicker.

You are over analyzing this. And you think too much, which I have been accused of too many times.

If she had sex with 3 guys at once, would that end your marriage or make you think differently about her.

Or whatever your worst case scenario is for the truth, would that end your marriage?

Make sure you know that answer before you ask her again.

Her refusing to answer sure makes you think the truth is your worst case scenario. And since your wife knows you so well, I would assume she knows what the worst case is for you.

OR...she might not really remember. Remembering is something I have thought about for what seems like forever, and it has been discussed on here a great deal.

It is the I dont remember answers that really can anger the BS. And some WWs will say they honestly do not remember certain things.

I get what you're saying; you can't un-ring a bell. That thought has ran circles in my head so many times. If I know the guy or does she truly not remember? Once again, the scenario:

She and a friend go down to her parent's beach house for about a week. She even asked if I minded if she did so, and I remember telling her that I would not be with someone I couldn't trust (true, and damn ironic, now.) She and the friend go out dancing and about thirty minutes into it, two guys move in, buy them drinks, etc. For the next hour or so, the four drink and dance and somewhere in the night, the girls are invited back to the guy's room. She told me her friend and her guy went straight to the bedroom and left her and her guy sitting on the couch in an awkward way. But, they managed to start kissing and one thing led to another. She remembers this! But not his name. They started with him on top, but switched with her on top so "she could control it". She remembers this; but not his name. They used protection; she remembered. She gave him her number as a few days later when back home, he called for another date - she refused. She remembers this; but not his name. She remembers during the course of conversation, he knew her brother as they played on opposing HS football teams. but she doesn't remember his name. She remembered (but not his name)my phone number because at 3 that morning. she woke me from a dead sleep to ask about our relationship. Alarms went off a little, but I fully trusted her. The name was not the only thing she forgot; she forgot to mention this happening for nearly 30 years. A lie by omission is still a lie. Liars lie. What else, then, does she not "remember?" What would you believe? I want the name.

Just finished reading the book Not Just Friends and plan to go back through, highlight what I feel are pertinent passages and give the book to my wife to read (those passages) in hopes of engaging in a productive dialogue about said issues.

We are going away next weekend, July 4th, to visit our daughter in another city. Spending time away, even at her home or a motel, seems to lighten her life and, thus, mood. Maybe we can come to a finality with this. Thoughts anyone?

But, they managed to start kissing and one thing led to another. She remembers this! But not his name

If she never knew the guy before or after, this was a real ONS, then yes, I can see her not remembering the name.

When I think back 30 plus years ago, I was with women for one night only, and I do not remember their names.

The only problem I see is why did she give him her number?

But that could be nitpicky now 30 years later.

Can't you ask the parents who was there?

Can't you or your wife ask the friend she went with?

Both parents passed early this year. They wouldn't have known about this anyway. The friend would likely not talk about it, as I doubt her husband even knows about this. I can't remember if these two were dating at the time this happened. But probably were, as they were married in less than a year afterwards.

There are two others (best friend and sister-in-law) that may know, but would be impossible to ask as they would be fiercely loyal to my wife, and she would never ask them anyway. I can see them not remembering this at all; even if she did confide in them back then.

Hence, my tactics of catching flies with honey instead of vinegar.

If she didn't have such a good memory on virtually everything else in her/our lives, I might resign to thinking she did forget. I know she had to give this guy her number because back then all phones were landlines and her home number was unlisted as her father did not want business calls there.

Not trying to pick a fight. But what do you plan to do with the information, if anything, if and when you get it? You need to plan for the second half of the game,,too. What if it's X or what if it's Y or Z?

Or do you think disclosure ends the issue?

I hope disclosure ends the issue; although, I feel so far that she had trickle-truthed me. I do realize, as pointed out by Craig, it may be something I don't want to hear. But, we have survived a lot, and I will work through it and heal. It can make us stronger, as in my heart, the trust issues are there. I want total transparency, from me and from her.

I was one of those guys where wearing the wedding ring was optional. I knew it bothered her somewhat, but shrugged it off. When she divulged this info some months ago, it took a while to process. I tried to push it back down inside, but it would bubble back up to the surface now and then.

Finally, we had a sit down about it some months after the original conversation, and calmly went back through it all and this time, I asked the nit picky questions that I wished I had asked the first time around (kind of shocked then). I felt then we had came to full disclosure. I asked where she had put my wedding band (it was in her jewelry box)and to get it. I then asked her to place it back on my finger. It has been there ever since. I said, then, "we are either married or we are not." The issues were past and I never looked back... until I came across those pics taken at the beach. Her entire demeanor changed when confronted (nicely) about them. Since then, its "let it go" or "let it go or let me go." It doesn't add up. It just doesn't.

You see, I never realized before how well she could have kept these things hidden, and did for years. I never suspected a thing.

Since then, its "let it go" or "let it go or let me go." It doesn't add up. It just doesn't.

You see, I never realized before how well she could have kept these things hidden, and did for years. I never suspected a thing.

And herein lie the problem.

It appears that your communication has been very good over your entire marriage...except for this.

What you really are going to have to discover about yourself, is if this is something that you will be able to live with---not trusting your wife like you did in the past. Personally, I don't know how accepting you can be of this situation. I would also be willing to bet that YOU don't even know the answer at this point.

That needs to be the focal point of your communication with your wife. She needs to understand...I mean REALLY understand...what is at stake here. If she is not willing to try to put your mind at rest, then there is a real possibility that your marriage may not make. That no matter how hard you may try to "let it go", you just might not be able to. She needs to know that honesty is the absolute best chance of working past this, and defensiveness only brings more confusion to the table.

I believe that she knows more than she is telling you. I also believe that she is certain that you will not leave the marriage....hence the threatening tone that she has given you. She is basically playing chicken, because she already believes that she knows the outcome.

The problem is that is a very, very dangerous game to play. Neither she, nor you, know what you are and are not willing to accept with regards to her knowledge. This is still a problem that is in its infancy stage, as it pertains to getting all the information out in the open, and starting the process of working through it. I hope she comes to realize this.

My problem with her attitude is that she is not trying to make you feel safe in your marriage. You are in a time of crisis, and she either does not realize, or is unwilling to help you through this. Thirty years of good behavior really does mean very little in the current circumstances. This is not about "time served" or statutes of limitations that have passed. She needs to come to the realization that her marriage is in potential jeopardy.

But what is most important...and disturbing...is that her husband is hurting, and she is not trying to ease his pain.

I hope that you are able to convey this to her.

Holly, well said, I got to page 3 and was getting increasingly miffed by people saying just let it go.

It maybe 30 years ago, but she hasn't told the truth and it only takes an incident in the present for a person to trigger and imagine all kinds of scenarios. I would have thought the betrayed posting here would understand that better than anyone else.

Is it an obsession to want the whole truth? This maybe the one thing tainting what could be a solid marriage going forward. So yes it maybe an obsession because to Old it's hanging over his head.

That said it doesn't seem like she'll be forthcoming with the information you want Old. You seem pretty happy and so does she. Wish you luck which path you take.

I don't get the wedding ring thing, unless that is just something you didnt like to wear, or does this have to do with her EA?

I am one of those people that hates to wear any ring of any kind. I always have.

As for does she remember, that is impossible to know and that is why the I dont remember answers from any WS is just the most agonizing of all.

Because you cannot prove the I dont remember as a lie. You can argue that no one in their right mind would ever forget something like that, and you can argue until hell freezes over. But it never seems to help get past the I dont remember answers.

OldSoul, there is something in the healing library called Joseph's Letter. Print that out and give it to your wife. It is all about the hell of the BS having to wonder and guess.

http://survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/joseph.asp