SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

ETA: double post. Sorry.

[This message edited by Ginny at 11:51 AM, April 9th (Thursday)]

Well bigger I feel like I have to get a lil emotional with her and let all my hurt emotions out so I no that she knows how bad it hurt me and not jus assume she does and like at the end of both my posts I give her the two options to choose the M or the A I'm going into this trying to get shit off my chest and a clear yes or no and like u said anything other than a full on YES is a No and I will move on without her in my life but I'm torn becuz u and ser along with some others have been giving me great advice so I'm trying to listen and use it the best I can I jus dnt want to rush into an uninformed decision cuz this a huge life altering situation and I dnt want to have any regrets

Man with the anger in you now any action will not meet your expectation. It will be even difficult to concentrate on the scenarios that you are preparing right now. She has the power over you at the moment.

The only thing you have to do is:

Tell her that she has 15 minutes only and that you have to be somewhere else and that you are going to listen to her. Do not interrupt or react. Just listen. once her time is over, turn your back and leave. Tell her that she hear from you soon.

Go back, process what she has told you see what you want, share with us we will help. let her wait for your answer. You need to have the control in your hand, than you can make your move. believe me you need to be calm when you take a move this is the most effective way to do.

Whatever your decision will be D or R. you need to be bring it in a clear mind, and that will not be through your discussion with her (not at this stage of anger). She will try to manipulate you. STAY FOCUS.

I can fully understand your need and want to be emotional.

But think RESULTS.

Tomorrow can only have one of two goals for her:

Letting you know the marriage is over or finding a way back into the marriage.

If it’s the former then your emotions won’t get her back.

I’m a former cop. I have seen that NO MATTER what people do wrong they will justify their actions. Your WW will be saying that the marriage was dead anyway and therefore it was OK to speak to OM. That you wouldn’t listen, that she’s sorry she hurt you but it’s all worth it anyway because she was being stifled or whatever… SHE WILL FIND AN EXCUSE and your emotions won’t mean an iota.

Being emotional right now will be equated to being weak OR your anger will be seen as justification for her actions: “HR is soooo temperamental that I had to get away from the marriage”.

If she’s calling you to let you know it’s over… then showing her emotions won’t get you ANY advantage. If you feel a need then after tomorrow you can write her a letter telling her what you feel.

If it’s the later then she will STILL have conditions and justifications.

It’s an extremely rare case where a WS comes back into a marriage in total remorse and honesty… IMHO those are things you reach on the path to R.

You need to stand firm and limit your conditions to total commitment because she’s going to say things like I mentioned:

“I want this marriage BUT… I need closure with OM. I will meet him this evening and on Sunday I will move back home”

“IWTM BUT… I need to stay at Auntie’s house and don’t phone on Friday evenings because I’m washing my hair”

“IWTM BUT... We must never mention the affair”

“IWTM BUT… I won’t cut off contact with my friend”

Getting emotional won’t change any of those.

What will change those is standing firm and being prepared to walk away.

^^^^

What the big guy said.

Emotion will not help. Writing letters to explain your position will not help. Trying to get her to understand how much you hurt will not help.

The ONLY thing you can do is to take her to edge of the abyss, show it to her, and then give her the choice to step into it or away from it.

This is the hardest thing us BSs have to learn in this whole process: There is nothing we can do to make our WSs come back to the marriage. They have to choose to do it. It is better to force the issue than wait in limbo while they eat their cake and make you twist in the wind. Best to learn where you stand now, so you can get on with your life - one way or the other.

I agree with Worndown.

You need to take her down to the Abyss.

Sending you positive thoughts and strength…

Before you go meet her then read our advice on what to say and what not to say.

Remember that this isn’t an argument that you need to take part in. The only goal from today is to know if she’s willing to commit to the marriage or not. Today won’t save nor destroy the marriage – it will only help you decide your next step.

Be constantly aware of SerJr’s advice to pause and think before responding. If you need to then snap a rubber band on your wrist, pinch yourself or hum the first four bars from your favorite song…

Even IF she tells you she isn’t ready to commit then that in itself is not the end of your marriage. This is a long, unclear path you are on. The only thing you know is that your destination is out of infidelity. The goal for today is to garner enough information to determine your next leg of that journey.

One final tip:

You won’t get ANY resolution today.

Even if she tells you she’s sorry and wants back and will move heaven and earth to make things right then that would only be words that let you know what she’s thinking at that moment – not resolution. You would still have immense work with numerous setbacks and issues to deal with over the next months and years.

Same if she tells you the marriage is over… You would still have to go through a process to get resolution.

The ONLY result for today is to tell you where you stand NOW and help determine your next step.

Finally…

YOU don’t have to give any answer today. If you feel unsafe, pressured, threatened, feel uncontrollable rage creeping in or whatever…. You can ALWAYS stand up and tell her you don’t want to do this now and walk away.

You are in my prayers bro – It’s how we react and respond to adversity that determine a man.

HotRod

Bigger is on the money.

You can get as emotional as you want but guess what my friend.

She will not care. Because if she cared right now she would not have moved out and started up with the OM.

Stay Calm.

Stay Cool.

And don't take any of her BS.

Do not be afraid to say goodbye.

HM

Thanks bigger u have rilly helped me thru this shitty time in my life I will use ur and serjr's advice to pause before I respond I feel like telling her that of course I'm not ok and that she knows me and she knows she's destroyed my life and I will stop right there and say but I'm not here to talk about that's for MC if we go I'm here to find out if I'm moving forward with or without you and if it is with u then it has to be after you end ur affair and go to IC I'm going to stay strong and business like and refer to the I'm sorry u feel that way..... if she tryd to blame our marriage again thanks for all the advice makes me feel not alone in this

Largely following you, not speaking much as Ser and Bigger are spot on. Just sending you strength. When I did this very thing I lashed out. Stay calm, seek clarity and move out of infidelity. One goal for today. The rest can wait. Sending you all the strength in the world today.

I'd send you strength today for your meeting this afternoon... but I have a feeling you have more than enough within you. Just believe in yourself brother.

Let us now how things went.

Sending strength and good thoughts. Wanted you to know others are thinking of you this afternoon.

Ooops, this afternoon? I hope I'm not too late. Tell her to bring her cellphone (particularly if it's a smartphone) I'm guessing you "own" the account since you were able to shut the service down. Just say you're turning it in for the cash or a trade-in on yours. Her telecommunication problems are not yours anymore, you're not going to bankroll her affair & she can get her same number from Wally World, Boost or Virgin Mobile. Of course the plan here is the ability to get a file retrieval program & the ability to see some of those old texts of hers if you're still interested, just for your "corporate" knowledge. If she refuses, tell her it will be asked for in the divorce papers or subpoenaed later. I'll write more later, but I wanted to get this out now. If you miss it, then ask for it when she comes to pick up her stuff.

I feel like I have to get a lil emotional with her and let all my hurt emotions out so I no that she knows how bad it hurt me and not jus assume she does and like at the end of both my posts I give her the two options to choose the M or the A I'm going into this trying to get shit off my chest and a clear yes or no

Tons of great advice in this thread.

I will add, you need to work on yourself. You can drive yourself crazy trying to convince her that she hurt you in the first place, let alone just how much she hurt you.

Until she even understands what she has done to you, you can talk forever and she will not get it. Don't waste much energy on trying to convince her that she really hurt you, because until she gets it, it will not matter.

Believe in yourself!

I might have missed it, but what happened when you told this other guy, your wife is a married woman.

Not that it matters to many of these other guys, but at least you know he knows you know.

Continuing from above, from the female point of view, I don't have big hopes for today, judging by the wording of her message. I think she wants to manipulate you so you will go softer on her. She can plead because of the income disparity, she's not ready to file yet...why be in a hurry? This allows you to be back up man in case BF doesn't work out.

Please read over Bigger & SerJr's posts again. You've been given advice from the SI equivalent of 4 Star Generals from the Army & Marines (who-wah!) as advisors to fight your war..and trust us, it is a war at this point. I cannot emphasize enough that the last thing most women respond to is a man who appears to be a wuss at a time & place where she can take a tactical advantage. Being the "gentler" sex, most of us couldn't settle our differences with our fists, instead we did it with our brains & our language skills. If you have sisters, you might have a better idea of the point I'm trying to put across. I really think this is NOT the time to tell her how you feel & that she hurt you. There will be plenty of time for that later if you reconcile.

You must present to her as a man of calm & strength..keep her guessing so she is unsure where she stands with you (refer back to SerJr & Bigger). IF she riles you or you get backed into a corner, here's something to remember that may help. It's a Dr. Phil'ism. More than once he'll ask the WS

DP: "So you felt there were problems in your marriage?"

WS: "Yes, <insert marital rewrite, blameshifting demonizing response here>"

DP: "So you went OUTSIDE of your marriage with someone else...thinking that would fix your marriage?.... How's that working out for you?"

It's a very succinct in their face statement but shows the illogical logic as WS uses. So, if you have to, you might want to use a statement like above.

I would also add this tidbit, which could very well be true: "Did it ever occur to you that after the miscarriage, you could be suffering from postpartum depression or another hormonal shift that began your negative thinking about me or our marriage? Women don't just have a miscarriage or baby & have their hormones return to normal immediately. Rather than discuss your feelings with me, where we could have explored this sudden change, you just went with it and look where we are now!" Again, this could be true in her case. And while it doesn't excuse her, it will give her a BIG thing to think about. Just one more thing to plant the seeds of doubt & keep her from knowing or guessing where your head is at.

Best of luck!

Hopefully he will post here soon. I think he is more confused now than before.

F$$$ I hate this.

Navigating through this mess is so damn hard. You are strong and know what you are going to say and what you need to do and then the person you love more than anyone screws with your emotions and the rollercoaster starts all over again.

[This message edited by brohl5 at 8:28 PM, April 10th (Friday)]

I am here with him now and he asked me to give a quick update. He will post tomorrow. After the phone conversation I had with him when he left her I did not expect to find him in this state just now. She made him question every move he has made since Dday, every move we SIers have suggested he make.

He is done. Deep in the anger stage right now. She told him she was on the fence, thinking of R until he:

Blocked OMs number

Turned off her phone

Closed their bank account

Changed the locks

Mind you he didn't do any of that until the night AFTER she told him that she was done with the marriage and handed him back the wedding band.

This stage is where he needs to be right now I think. He is a fighter and he is finally standing tall.

I would like to personally thank each and every one of you for taking time out of your busy lives to keep an eye on this thread and help him. Especially Bigger and Ser. You have both had great insight to his personality and were able to reach him. He is a proud man and it wasn't easy for him to come here and ask for help. I am so proud of him for posting here.

His journey is just beginning as we all know but I believe that he finally has clarity and isn't willing to be strung along anymore.

[This message edited by brohl5 at 9:22 PM, April 10th (Friday)]

Thank you for the update Brohl.

Hotrod - your WW is playing a mindfuck with you.

I'll say it again, because this deserves special emphasis...

Your WW is playing a mindfuck with you.

"She told him she was on the fence, thinking of R until..."

There is no "thinking of R". You either do it or you don't. Plain and simple. What she said amounts to "I was thinking of pulling the knife our of your back, but then you took some measures to protect yourself from getting kicked in the nuts while you're down."

Seriously, what the fuck was she expecting "Sure sweetie, I'll unblock his number for you, and oh by the way here's my paycheck"?

That is NOT what R looks like. Your WW shows no remorse and you cannot reconcile successfully with that. She is just spouting bullshit so that she doesn't have to take responsibility for sinking the ship. If she wanted to commit to the marriage you can be damn sure she would move heaven and earth to make it so.

She would take responsibility for her choices without excuse.

She would take ownership of the consequences of those choices. And those include all those things you did to protect yourself.

She would recognise the pain her choices caused you to suffer, she would express her remorse, and she would WORK ON (not spout bullshit about) fixing herself and the marriage.

On the fence? Nevermind the fact that she told you she was tossing you aside like yesterday's trash, but exactly how much time on this fucking fence does she need? Well, the answer is she'll take as much as you give her and she's upset that you're systematically tearing out the damned posts, one by fuckin one, in front of her. She has options - commit to the marriage or get left behind. But in her mind the option she sees for moving forward is to play this mindfuck with you to keep you exactly where she wants you. She is acting selfish and manipulative.

You're angry?

Atta boy - damn fucking right you are!

That's your inner self telling you that there is something seriously worng with this situation.

Anger is a very powerful source of energy. It is neither good nor bad in itself, what matters is what you channel that intense energy into.

Focused constructively it will give you the boost you need to "get things done". It's a kick in the ass to make things better and set things right.

It hurts like hell, but it's the peroxide on the wound. It means you will heal.

You've taken a beating, and amidst all the scattered smoke and debris your WW can now see you standing tall... the dragon is scared now that you have found your roar. It is a sign... that something awesome is going to happen.

[This message edited by SerJR at 9:50 PM, April 10th (Friday)]

Thanks serjr and bigger u guys helped more than u no u guys r awesome thanks for all the time out of ur busy days and un bias support I did my very best to fight for my marriage and I can go to sleep every night knowing that she CAN NOT and she cried but she had the balls to say I'm scared of losing u not as ur wife but as a friend in dnt want to lose u from my life I said if ur not my wife ur out of my life plain and simple how the FUCK could we ever be friends after this u destroyed my heart and soul friends dnt do that shit so we either go to marriage counseling or we move on separately I told her to make a decision now she said it's not guna be the decision u want I said I want ur decision not mine said asked for one more day I said if u change ur mind in one night then I dnt think u can be trusted going forward so if it's a yes then its a yes if its a no then it's a no pretty fucking sim ol lens have been gone for a month I'm done with the limbo shit choose so she said she was done so I drove off then she messages me saying i will always love u so I couldn't help myself cuz i got drinking alil and said It's ok u dnt have to be my wife anymore I'm not guna make u or beg u to be in this marriage we jus didn't work out plain and simple thanks for opening my eyes to the fact that I deserve better she responded in class FUCK YOU and then Don't worry about Hearing from me again we r beyond done so there it's is guys I'm on the road to the BIG D

I know you're probably going through a hurricane of emotion right now. This is some of the hardest shit anyone would have to go through, and you are championing it. Take backwards solace in her last response - she doesn't care about anything but herself and you need to be protected from that toxicity. You are worth so much more than this garbage and you know it.

We're all standing behind you and proud of you.

(((hotrod4094)))