SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Got a Gottman trained MC to replace previous MC. Previous MC was of some help but was often questioning my feelings (not validating) and was willing to compare my info gathering as betrayal equivalent to my WW's EA. Gottman trained MC immediately had my back and helped find more word to describe why I felt like I did instead of just questioning. Not very hopeful this will really fix anything at this point. I guess I just want to know I have it a good college try and maybe try a new process with my WW where she might actually try. Seems very unlikely but the last week has been ok.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:44 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:32 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

There is a reason MC is highly NOT recommended until a lot of work has been done.

Well TIF, your story is a sad read.

You seem to be unwilling to do what really needs to be done--which is get yourself out of infidelity. It's over 4 months now. Your WW blew through your ultimatums to leave her job. And on top of that, she is openly disrespecting you to her friends, calling you a lost puppy. And on top of THAT, she is keeping her wayward friends. You need to be telling your WW that you are not going to be living in this filth anymore, that you are moving in a different direction, that her choices are that she can either a) clean up and come along and maybe you and she will reconcile, or b) you and she will D.

Finding a marriage counselor who takes your side is really just a half-measure. Actually it is not even that. I am not sure how someone else trying to 'reason' with your WW with all her crazy-making ways, is going to make her see the light. Especially when she is being told who-knows-what from her 'counselor' and her other wayward friends.

And...what you seeming to be hoping to achieve with MC...is this even what you would want anyway? I mean, imagine this: You come home from a MC session and she says 'wow MC brought up some great points you are right I was wrong I am now remorseful and I'm gonna do all the things I should have been doing all along but never cared enough to do before'. Would that even be gratifying? Go read some of the threads on the Wayward section. Even one of the newer posters who is still making mistakes, are still seeming to be putting in a helluva lot more effort to save their marriages than your WW is.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:46 PM, April 23rd (Thursday)]

Finding a marriage counselor who is on your side is meaningless. Your wife isn't on your side. And, if she needs a professional to talk her into being on your side, it's only a matter of time before she cheats again.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:49 PM, April 23rd (Thursday)]

^^^^^ yep an MC can’t fix her. Only she can do that.

[This message edited by Marz at 3:39 PM, April 23rd (Thursday)]

This isn't really about your wife anymore This0is0Fine, this is about you.

You need to figure out why you are willing to let your wife fuck her coworkers without consequences, keep working with them without consequences, disrespect you after the fact to her toxic friends without consequences, and so on.

Looking for a therapist who will side with you isn't a step, it's nothing at all. Just observe and see.

I can only see 2 real options here: decide that you're okay with your wife having a boyfriend (that's what you're currently doing, you tell her how bad that makes you feel with no follow-up to make her understand you won't accept it.), or start taking REAL action, which probably looks like divorce papers.

faithfulman, I can pretty confidently say she never fucked the OM, and that it didn't go beyond the one rejected kiss. Everything else though, yep, I have absolutely taken a shitload of disrespect.
As for the new therapist doing nothing at all, I don't quite feel the same. My WW was much more conciliatory about her actions. When once again confronted with the fact that she was condemning infidelity in words but not in actions, she finally faced the truth. She said she would no longer stand by and let infidelity happen around her. This by itself is just words, but she hasn't previously committed to that position at all. That's a little bit of progress.
Also, surprisingly, she said the lack of trust she felt from my spying FINALLY made her realize what she did to my trust with her lying and cheating. She really is very self centered, and until she felt what is honestly not that much pain comparitively, she couldn't even process what she had done to me.
I don't think we are on anything that could be called a solid path to reconciliation right now though. I think we both just want to get through the lockdown on good terms.
As for WF, she and her husband are going to have a baby to smooth everything over. She had an abortion a little over a year ago. I don't even know if it was her husband's anymore (I was under the impression it was at the time). I know, I shouldn't even associate with her or whatever because she and my WW are both basically remorseless lying cheaters that support each other's bad behavior.
Once again setting myself on a path to more pain and disappointment. It's almost like an out of body experience. Maybe I'm just an emotional masochist.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 1:53 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:33 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

... I can pretty confidently say she never fucked the OM, and that it didn't go beyond the one rejected kiss

.

What is the basis for the above conclusion?

Why are you staying with in your words, a remorseless, lying cheating wife?

What is the basis for the above conclusion [she didn't fuck AP]?
Well, there are multiple points of evidence that point to this.
1) She has been entirely consistent since our conversation where I said I needed the whole truth after D-Day.
2) The exchanged text messages between them corroborate that nothing physical happened/they wanted to do more and hadn't.
3) When I eavesdropped the conversation between WW and WF, they were pretty specific in their infidelity and actions. Once again, my WW was consistent to the extent of the A with no reason to be hiding. This information came along with a great deal of rather bad news, but it was corroborating of the original story.
Why stay? Hmmm, D is hard, I get screwed economically, and it's scary. Trying to get her to understand she needs to fix herself seems possible.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 1:52 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:33 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

1) She has been entirely consistent since our conversation where I said I needed the whole truth after D-Day.

Worst evidence ever. In fact, it is not evidence at all.

2) The exchanged text messages between them corroborate that nothing physical happened/they wanted to do more and hadn't.

That is evidence! I forget, did you ever recover her phone using Fonelab?

Some cheaters get very clever in trying to cover their tracks.

3) When I eavesdropped the conversation between WW and WF, they were pretty specific in their infidelity and actions. Once again, my WW was consistent to the extent of the A with no reason to be hiding. This information came along with a great deal of rather bad news, but it was corroborating of the original story.

This is also not evidence. Cheaters like to lie to everybody to make themselves seem innocent.

Don't think she might not have been on to your eavesdropping either.

***

Let me circle back to this bit:

2) The exchanged text messages between them corroborate that nothing physical happened/they wanted to do more and hadn't.

Weren't they having their affair while traveling away from you?

Two grown adult BOTH "wanted to do more", but nothing physical happened? They just decided not to?

And she is still working with this upstanding moral gent as well?

***

This is really easy to settle. Tell her you 99% believe she didn't fuck him, or have any sexual contact with him, wanted to but "didn't do more".

But just to satisfy the 1% that isn't convinced, you just need her to take a 1 question polygraph, where she states she did not do anything sexual, which includes but is not limited to:

- Making out with him

- touching her mouth to him in any way, or his mouth to her in any way

- Giving him a handjob or touch her hand to his dick in any way

- Letting him touch her breasts in any manner

- Grinding on him

- letting him diddle her pussy externally or internally.

- Grabbing her ass

- sliding his hand into her pants, either over or under her underwear

- Sucking his dick or touching his dick with her mouth or putting his dick in her mouth, face, or any other part of her body

- letting him rub his dick on her pussy over or under her clothing

- Putting his dick in her pussy or even against her pussy, even for a split second, even "just the head".

- Touching her asshole in any way

- Sticking his finger or dick in her asshole

- Sending any kind of intimate pix, anything from short skirts, to underwear, to lingerie, to partial or fully nudes, to her demonstrating sexual activity

- Or anything else like that

That oughta 'bout cover it. Maybe our poster friends can add to the list.

But if what she is telling you is true, and she has been so consistent, she should be willing and able to answer that one question.

Don't you think?

Why stay? Hmmm, D is hard, I get screwed economically, and it's scary. Trying to get her to understand she needs to fix herself seems possible.

And divorce has an ending with an end date. Staying married has no end date. Divorcing has a finite mental price. Staying has a never ending mental price. I wish for you she wanted to fix herself but you trying to get her to understand she needs to is a long-shot. I wish you the best though.

Faithfulman, he told her he wanted her to take a polygraph. She said she would, then refused. And he said ok.

Faithfulman, he told her he wanted her to take a polygraph. She said she would, then refused. And he said ok.

Yeah, I kinda remember that.

Dude just doesn't want the evidence that defines in stark contrast whether he is going to take the decisive action that he is afraid to take, or if he will decide to be a doormat whose wife fucked another man and he let her do it without true consequences.

I'm sorry man, but that is the only real conclusion to the path you have followed.

She offered a polygraph after I told WF it was an option that I would rather not pursue. She walked back her offer when I told her to schedule it.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 1:52 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:33 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Well we know where that will lead to.

One day at a time.

Buffer

This0Is0Fine, from the tone of your posts, even you don't seem to have much respect for the way you've been handling things. You seem resigned and disappointed in yourself.

Anyways I am sorry but there is no evidence of real remorse from your WW, just her feeding you and MC what you both want to hear. A couple weeks ago she told WF you were a lost puppy, remember. Until we see ACTIONS, her words are more or less meaningless.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:21 PM, April 29th (Wednesday)]

She offered a polygraph after I told WF it was an option that I would rather not pursue. She walked back her offer when I told her to schedule it.

Then you schedule it like you should have in the first place.

Why are you leaving it up to her?

She half complained she was treated by me like she had sex with him,

I know you read Not Just Friends early on; you might want to re-read it now. You are living proof of two of her fundamental assertions: a. that infidelity is not just about love and sex. Your wife violated too many boundaries and the result was entirely predictable. b. that people who live in an environment that condones infidelity are more likely to see it as acceptable. Look at how she accepted the behavior of both her sister and friend. Who knows how many other of her close associates are cheating?

You've done all you can do, she isn't interested in becoming the kind of wife you can trust. Speaking of trust, I think everyone should read What Makes Love Last by Gottman and Silver. As you may have discovered with new MC, trust not really about what most people think it is. Trust is a function of the way your partner validates (not agrees with but validates) your feelings. Using privacy as a shield to continue violating boundaries is exactly the opposite of trustworthy behavior and any one who tries to use that as any sort of justification is simply not reconciliation material. I've read through your posts again and I can't see any real introspection: everything circles around to what you did or did not do rather than her own failings. She really hasn't given you anything to work with.

...wants me to sell the house, she didn't want to visit the house we bought together.

Too Bad. You already know that divorce will be financially damaging, there is absolutely no reason you should suffer any unnecessary damage to make her feel better.

Sir,

What advice do you give other BSs when they have a wife refuse to do a Poly, act like your wife, lie, and similar?

You give good advice.

You don't follow your own advice.

You use words like "scary" to describe divorce. Until living in infidelity with a cheating liar is more "scary" than divorce, you won't do anything. Fear is paralyzing. It will halt action. If you want to solve a problem, the first step is to stop being afraid of the outcome and do the right thing.

It is your life. Live it how you will. I would suggest you either live your own advice or stop giving it to others.