SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

TIF:

Loving and respecting ourselves often means taking action that we may not necessarily want, yet desperately need.

Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable.

I'm sorry it hasn't worked out the way you want.

TiF, it's safe to say that none of us in S/D wanted to be there. All of us would have preferred an infidelity free relationship or for WSes to have chosen R.

If you don't do anything else, I hope you at least take this time to step way back from your WW and focus on yourself. Her actions have always said that she wasn't in this for the right reasons. Her apathy on VDay, continued pining for OM, taking back the resignation, and even how she handled D talks. She didn't put up a fight until it became clear that finances would be a concern for her. She isn't motivated by her love for you. She's motivated by fear for herself. She can say whatever she wants to you but deep down, the outcome is still all about her. R is difficult enough when both BS and WS are committed but it's impossible when the WS is still only looking out for themselves and doing everything they can to get the outcome that they want as opposed to what's best for the BS and the marriage. You know this now. No more denial. Make decisions for yourself based on this fact and not what you hope she may do in the future.

If you move forward with D and she actually follows through with what you need for R, you can always stop and turn back towards her. But at this point, you can't just accept her word at face value. Her actions have to prove to you that she is 110% committed. Accept nothing less.

A little more clarity on the events that unfolded seems necessary here.
Last Friday night my WW told me (per our agreement) about contact with OM. However, she did it in a way that was ambiguous as to whether or not it actually crossed personal boundaries. As a result I decided to eavesdrop a conversation she was having with a mutual friend.
What I learned from this over about 40 minutes of conversation (this is unfiltered):
1) My WW was breaking NC about personal issues. She asked how things were going with OM, and he is sleeping on the couch. She hopes he can get along with his wife again and recover their family.
2) Presumed mutual friend from much earlier on that I thought was helpful was in fact wayward herself in an ongoing LTA.
3) My WW almost certainly actually did not have sex with OM. She half complained she was treated by me like she had sex with him, and that she never did, that it was purely emotional and that it was because all I did was look at her with the eyes of a lost puppy whenever she talked about her mother's suicide. This also included blame shifting of mutual friend on her husband.
What I did after I absorbed this information:
1) I told husband of mutual friend about his WW. There was no way to be sure she would tell him if I asked, I didn't want her to feel I was blackmailing her, and he deserved to know. There was not gonna be another stupid game of information like with SIL/BIL (How many of her close friends/family are Wayward!?)
2) Told mutual friend I was the info source. She said she wasn't mad and that she hoped we would still be friends. I was expecting her to ex-communicate me to be honest.
3) Told my wife I told mutual friend's husband and that I had eavesdropped her conversation.
As a result my wife felt I had betrayed her privacy, which I had, justified though I may be. I told her it was still a small slice of the shit pie she force fed me. We fought and fought, and slept in separate rooms but didn't actually conclude on D or R. The following morning, we discussed the possible path forward. This is where the discussion about her job being a dealbreaker either way at this point started. Essentially I said, "You can't stay because it means you want the affair. You can't leave just because I ask, because that means I'm just your warden. I need you to want to leave." She resigned and told me she resigned. She called me a terrible man. I told her she could not be married to a terrible man. That's when I called my lawyer. They are apparently very busy.
So this day we already had scheduled counseling appointments. She came out of hers essentially ambivalent. "If we can try again, then I would like to try again. If we have to separate I will be OK." She unresigned after that.
After mine, I felt a little better about having "broken" my wife's privacy. I also felt better knowing that I had gotten the information I needed about her affair.
We then went to MC. The MC and I got into a fight about responsibility and duty. She asked why it was my responsibility to tell mutual friend's husband. I told her it was about the categorical imperative and that he deserved to know, and that if someone else knew my wife was cheating on me I would want them to tell me. She says sure but why is that your responsibility? Well. This spun up a useless back and forth where I told her she previously said neither I not my wife had the responsibility to make the other happy. And if I don't have responsibility to do anything then does responsibility exist at all? She refused to answer this very simple yes or no question.
As a result I walked out, set on divorce. Called my lawyer again, couldn't get to him. When my wife gets home (I walked home, she drove home after finishing the rest of the appointment). I tell her we are getting a divorce. Then and only then does she fight for the marriage, but not by once again offering to resign or cutoff all contact with the AP.
So I uncovered yet another affair of a friend, and somehow got back to limbo instead of D.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:45 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:34 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Respectfully, you are where you are choosing to be.

There are a ton of crappy people in your life.

They are there because you allow it.

As long as you allow it, that is how it will be.

Actions, not words fix this. Broadswords, not scalpels.

After mine, I felt a little better about having "broken" my wife's privacy. I also felt better knowing that I had gotten the information I needed about her affair.

I sort of look at snooping as if you are in the house and smell smoke. You may need to dig around and see if the smoke is coming from a bagel stuck in the toaster or the house is on fire.

I think that your house is on fire but may be able to R if she comes around...

If you show strength and start the D rolling (it takes 6-12 months depending on where you live, she will see that you are serious about this and she can't feed you bullshit anymore. It may cause a change in her self centered actions.

As a result my wife felt I had betrayed her privacy, which I had, justified though I may be.

Breaking nc tells you what? Back to the old privacy to cheat theme.

You’re still in this because that’s what you’ve chosen.

As with most MC’s they’ll lie or omit to rugsweep. Nothing new there.

Brother, you know your WW doesn't sound the least bit remorseful. If anything, she sounds resentful i.e., stuck in her wayward thinking. As if, that you want her to actually show remorse, which includes willingly quitting her job--and following through and her not supporting other WWs in their affairs, the nerve of you!

How many more signs do you need:

1. Lying to you about contact with OM.

2. Blame-shifting her affair onto you, all the while throwing in blatant disrespect towards you on top of that e.g., "eyes of a lost puppy".

3. Her not resigning from her job--resigning and then un-resigning doesn't count as anything. This, after several months of you telling her that you need her to do this.

EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE is a deal-breaker in and of itself. And they all point to the larger picture of her showing OM more respect than she is showing you.

I don't think your WW's IC therapy sessions are helping her see the light at all either, I do wonder if that is because your WW may be telling her a distorted narrative.

The path forward seems pretty clear at this point. Staying in this marriage, knowing the filth she is OK spinning with her other wayward friends.....this aint no way to live.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:13 PM, April 9th (Thursday)]

TIF,

The saga continues. What do you mean by “Then and only then does she fight for the marriage”. What can that possibly look like if at the same time she refuses to resign the job and cut contact with the OM.

One other point. I think the fact she found out that after all this time the OM is still being forced to sleep on the couch is very problematic. I believe this could quite possibly give her hope that his marriage will end and he’ll be available. She’s going to keep her lifeline to him and he remains an integral part of your marriage. Here we go again.

So she's breaking NC,which has probably never really been in place, calls you a terrible man, has no remorse..then tosses you a crumb..and you put yourself back in limbo.

You are showing weakness. And she is fully taking advantage.

Did you tell OBS that her husband is still having an affair with your wife?

You do understand, that continuing to talk about personal matters with an affair partner, means the affair continues? Right? Please to me you understand that!

So as I and others have recommended, get back to D if she’s Not going to do anything different.

Call and make an appointment with the lawyer. Ask for papers to be drawn up and served (however that happens in this new world).

Then let her know she has until the D is finalized to change and give you what you need to stay or else you’ll both go your separate ways. And again, saying she’ll do those things is not actually doing them and until she does them, you’re moving down that on your own.

If she thinks saving her job and contact with the OM is more important than giving the man she supposedly loves and saving her relationship then you have your answer.

State it once and once only. I need a new job, complete NC, showing you care how you hurt me (remorse, empathy), and a plan to rebuild and make me feel safe.

No more discussion until you get it.

Take care

Oh and PS: a good response to the MC would have been “it was my responsibility to inform the Betrayed spouse of the Wayward friend, because I knew. It became my responsibility once I knew. And hiding it from him makes me complicit in the betrayal. I will not be complicit in deceiving someone I know.

She says sure but why is that your responsibility?

Why is anything anybody's responsibility? You walk down the street and see some McD's wrappers and a cup. You pick them up, keep them until you reach a trash can, and put them in the trash can. Why? Why is that your responsibility?

Wrong question. You don't do it out of a sense of "responsibility." You do it because it's the right thing to do, because, as you note, you'd want somebody else to do it if the roles were reversed. The Golden Rule.

I would send her a copy of this verse and tell her, “I have it from the highest authority in the Church that I am good, no priest needed thanks!”

“And I tell you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.””

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:9‬ ‭HCSB‬‬

Let her figure it out all for herself

I appreciate the biblical advice but I and my WW are atheists.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:45 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:35 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

She half complained she was treated by me like she had sex with him, and that she never did, that it was purely emotional

Just because she told her friend she didn’t have sex with him doesn’t mean she didn’t. She could be minimizing to her friend too, so she doesn’t seem like such a terrible person and makes you look like you’re overreacting.

Your wife is still pining after this guy and he’s sleeping on the sofa. And she resigned then un-resigned? I’d be suspicious that she resigned at all.

Even in your cartoon you posted, you seem to be aware your house is on fire.

She definitely resigned. I heard the call and she sent me their email begging her to withdraw the resignation.
She was telling the whole truth. They were drinking and complaining about husbands. Why would she hold back on me in this scenario? If anything one-upsmanship would tend to indicate the two of them inflating their complaints in this scenario.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:45 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:36 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Drinking and complainikng about her husband.

After you have offered her the gift of R.

After she had an affair.

After she said she would take a polygraph, then didn't.

After she said she would quit her job, then didn't.

After she broke NC to find out if OM was still interested..make no mistake, that's what she was doing..and by telling her he is on the couch(maybe,maybe not)..he was letting her know he is interested,because poor mean wifey just doesn't understand.

After her tears upon returning from vacation.

She is bitching about you.

The woman has no respect for you at all.

You want to believe the shit she says to your face, but when she is away from you, she continues to disrespect you in every way.

And you believe she was telling her cheater friend the truth? Well, at least she is honest with someone. Unfortunately, it's not you.

The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

So, did she resign and stick with her resignation, or not?

I get that you may have only been responding to the question as to whether she had actually tended her resignation in the first place. If she resigned and then they sent her a letter and then she recanted her resignation though, then....in effect she didn't do anything.

Keeping as a close friend another Wayward and being complicit in her spinning her filth.... While she talks smack about you, AS THE REASON why she had her affair in the first place... Why the hell are you still putting up with this??!?

Nevermind the comment about you being like a lost puppy whenever she talked about her mother's passing (while OM came in and ended up fulfilling her emotional needs).

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:14 PM, April 9th (Thursday)]

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:44 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:36 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

So if she didn't sleep with him, why did she resist taking a polygraph? What ELSE is she hiding that she fears will be revealed? Or is she refusing just because she can and you let her get away with it?

TiF, it doesn't really matter how many times you explain or re-explain interactions you've had with her. The facts remain the same. Broken NC, an unwillingness to do what you need to heal, and a massive lack of remorse and basic respect for you and your marriage. The minutiae of who said what first and play-by-play of every argument DO NOT MATTER. You could have nothing but pleasant and positive conversations all day and it WOULD NOT MATTER if she continues talking to OM behind your back and refuses to find a new job. R doesn't thrive on pleasant and calm interactions. It thrives on truth, honesty, transparency, remorse, and NC. You do not have even one single thing from that list going for you.

Stop letting her dictate R or D. You don't get right back in to limbo just because she says she doesn't want a D. Most WSes do not want a D. Even those deep in an active A. Not wanting a D is par for the course. It's straight out of the cheater's handbook. When she starts actually following through with the steps she needs to take for R - starting the day she officially leaves her job and goes NC with OM - that's when you get back into limbo and think about R. If you keep letting her pick and choose D, limbo, and rugsweeping, all you're going to get is exactly what you've been getting. More lies. More disrespect. She will not stop until she is forced to face the reality that her continued waywardness leads only to D.