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Complicated relationship

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 keljpvs (original poster new member #79553) posted at 4:49 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

[This message edited by keljpvs at 6:59 PM, Friday, December 3rd]

posts: 48   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: Fredericksburg,VA
id 8696376
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 5:20 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

Infidelity requires a secrecy element and breaking of a promise that appears to be missing here.

He asked for permission to have sex with another woman, and you said yes (it seems). If you didn't actually want him to, you shouldn't have said yes. I don't know if this is the right website to help you since it looks like you are trying to accept some for of non-monogamy.

I can tell you based on what I know about cheaters in general though, that your husband will not make a decision unless he is forced to. Otherwise he will have his cake and eat it too as long as you and the OW allow it.

I wish you the best of luck.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1489   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8696385
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13YearsR ( member #58259) posted at 5:38 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

You have the right, at any point, to say that this isn't working for you and you want your marriage to be closed again. He'll either agree or leave. I doubt that he'll make the decision himself while he's got a free ticket to eat your cake and hers. I assume that you're hesitant to set a boundary for fear that he'll choose the COW. He might, but he might also decide that giving up you, half of his assets, and seeing his kids every day isn't worth it.

So many WSs think that allowing the BS to have a free ticket to sample others' goodies will help them feel better about having strayed, but it seems like it usually opens Pandora's Box and complicates recovery, like we're seeing here.

His happiness means everything.

Yours is important, too. You might need some help believing that. Have you had any counseling?

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. ~ Gloria Steinem

The grass is greener on the other side of the fence because you're not over there messing it up.

DDay 2004. Successful R. 33 years married

posts: 604   ·   registered: Apr. 13th, 2017   ·   location: TX
id 8696386
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 keljpvs (original poster new member #79553) posted at 5:51 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

[This message edited by keljpvs at 7:00 PM, Friday, December 3rd]

posts: 48   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: Fredericksburg,VA
id 8696389
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13YearsR ( member #58259) posted at 5:59 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

Since he's willing, I think I'd go ahead and schedule an MC appointment. Choose your MC wisely. I'd look for one who specializes in infidelity or sexual addiction. There's a lot of trust issue overlap in infidelity and SA, so a C who's experienced in SA can be quite adept at helping couples deal with infidelity.

Even though he was given permission to sleep with her, he blew through your boundary and we're now in cheating territory, IMO. I'm sorry. sad

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. ~ Gloria Steinem

The grass is greener on the other side of the fence because you're not over there messing it up.

DDay 2004. Successful R. 33 years married

posts: 604   ·   registered: Apr. 13th, 2017   ·   location: TX
id 8696393
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 keljpvs (original poster new member #79553) posted at 6:14 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

[This message edited by keljpvs at 7:00 PM, Friday, December 3rd]

posts: 48   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: Fredericksburg,VA
id 8696396
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 6:45 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

How long was your affair? How did he act toward your infidelity? What did he do to end your Affair?

You dont fall in love in 2 weeks. He is in lust or limerance from sex with a new woman. No responsibility or family duties.

I think he has crossed the boundary you set and you can decide if you want to treat him as a wayward husband. Meaning, follow the guidance here for getting yourself out of what has become his infidelity. There is a lot of guidance in the library and in the Just Found Out forum.

posts: 405   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8696404
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13YearsR ( member #58259) posted at 6:46 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

And he said he would have done this with her with or without my permission.

I guess it's kind of good that he asked, and that he's being honest, but dang. That hurts. Do you think it's time to rescind your permission?

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. ~ Gloria Steinem

The grass is greener on the other side of the fence because you're not over there messing it up.

DDay 2004. Successful R. 33 years married

posts: 604   ·   registered: Apr. 13th, 2017   ·   location: TX
id 8696405
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ChamomileTea ( member #53574) posted at 7:27 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

I'll be honest. I'd see an attorney and file for divorce.

Your infidelity was 5 years ago. If somebody feels like they've got to play tit for tat with you, that's not love. It's not forgiveness. It's nothing. Speaking for me, I was destroyed by my fWH's adultery, squashed like a bug. It took every bit of five years to recover. I can't imagine anyone KNOWING what that felt like and deliberately doing it to someone they claimed to love. My fWH had his head on wrong. He was angry, resentful, and blaming ME for all his middle-aged angst and disappointment. But he had NO IDEA how badly he could hurt me. And I suspect something similar might have happened for you. Wayward thinking, but no way to really understand just how deep the pain is for the BS.

Your BH does know it though. And he did it anyway. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind, right?

There comes a point at which the WS needs to be EQUAL again in the marriage. That point might vary. For me, I set a deliberate goal of five years and if I hadn't been able to allow my fWH to live a normal life in that amount of time, I would have let him go. I'm a woman of my word. So, if I say I'm going to do something, I do it. I said I could reconcile and I put all my effort toward it, with the goal being a return to NORMAL. If your fBH was never going to allow you to be an equal partner in the marriage again, he should have been honest with you and told you so.

To my way of thinking, what he has done is WORSE than what you did. He threw away his marriage vows, same as you once did. But he KNEW the pain you'd feel, and he inflicted it on you anyway. It's your call obviously. You say you love him. After what I lived through, I don't think I could love someone who was capable of that kind of deliberate cruelty.

I'm sorry this happened to you. sad

posts: 4689   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8696413
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Humbled123 ( member #62947) posted at 7:34 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

Definitely limerance. You are in a tough spot. This fantasy will last 12 to 24 months in his head. Put your foot down too soon and he’ll probably run. But waiting it out is unfair to you.
My WW flat told that had I caught her when the limerance hadn’t ran it’s course she would have left. This is all such a mind fuck. No easy answer here. He has to see her for who she really is first.

posts: 202   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018
id 8696419
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 keljpvs (original poster new member #79553) posted at 9:11 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

[This message edited by keljpvs at 7:01 PM, Friday, December 3rd]

posts: 48   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: Fredericksburg,VA
id 8696440
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 keljpvs (original poster new member #79553) posted at 9:14 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

[This message edited by keljpvs at 7:01 PM, Friday, December 3rd]

posts: 48   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: Fredericksburg,VA
id 8696441
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Wanttobebetter ( member #72484) posted at 9:59 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

Also we are continuing to have sex every day and he acts very nice towards me. Very loving. Tells me he loves me. Yes this is a mind fuck and I want to get off the ride. Especially when I know he’s telling her the same things he tells me.

This is just plain ole cake eating at its finest, nothing more nothing less. Please don't confused this as love though.

Good Luck.

posts: 173   ·   registered: Jan. 6th, 2020
id 8696455
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Buck ( member #72012) posted at 11:21 PM on Tuesday, November 2nd, 2021

This is much like my situation. My stbxw had a 6mo A. 18mo post d day I told her I would stay in the M until the children were older but would not be faithful to her going forward. She agreed. I had an 18mo RA and a 5yr A at roughly 5 years "after". I hesitate to call them affairs myself, especially the first one. Many here disagree with me though. I didn't lie about a single thing during the first A though. In fact, I made damn sure my WW knew what was going on.

A lot of so called virtuous people are merely cowards that hide behind morals and morality. A person that does this says things like "I could never imagine a world in which I would _______" or "under no circumstances would I ever _______". The blank can be cheat, steal, lie, kill, maim, torture, etc. The thing is, that doesn't make them virtuous or even moral; it makes them harmless. It's like a rabbit touting how virtuous they are because they don't eat lambs. A wolf that abstains from lamb chops is demonstrating virtue. He has the capability to eat a lamb, but he's making a conscious choice to avoid that behavior. There is a big difference between the two.

I say this because I knew I had the capacity to cheat. Over the years, I made the choice to avoid straying many times. Staying faithful was something I worked at. I had rock solid boundaries with other women, empathy for my wife\children, and I valued what I thought we were building together. After she cheated, that shit went right out the window. I felt I sacrificed some of those experiences I chose to avoid when my cheating whore wife didn't extend me the same courtesy. I also feel that consequences need to be levied for lessons to be truly learned and internalized. The fact you're here posting about his cheating, and not the shit you've done, says I was on the right track.

Now you do have choices. You can wait around for him to have his fun, try to convince him how much you've changed - do the pick me jig, and let his fling run it's course. Then hope he chooses you over her. You can hope this is the only time this happens, or you can divorce. BTW, he is in the same boat. The truth is the MH thing is a motherfucker. Anything you say to him will likely be thrown right back in your face. Questions, statements, anything really, and it makes it super difficult to have a conversation. This aspect also makes MC worthless, in my experience anyway.

posts: 338   ·   registered: Nov. 4th, 2019   ·   location: Texas
id 8696481
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forgettableDad ( member #72192) posted at 1:49 AM on Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021

Yes this is a mind fuck and I want to get off the ride.

Well then, it's not really a complicated relationship and you want out. Whatever games he's playing in his mind your best bet is to remove yourself - at least emotionally at first. Let him deal with his shit. You deal with yours.

As you can track through several posters on SI, being betrayed doesn't actually confer any moral superpower - just people dealing with pain in usually unhealthy ways while narrating their own heroic story. To stay, maintain and grow a marriage with or without infidelity takes a lot of work and dedication from both partners. One isn't enough.

What can you do is entirely up to you though. SI is an anonymous board. It's not full of answers; at best a listening ear every once in a while. You're going to have to figure this out in the real world and with actual help (therapy, lawyers, etc).

On another note; I don't think you have the power in a relationship to give permission for your partner to cheat on you. Again, the way I see it, sleeping with someone not your wife or husband is cheating, immoral and destructive to both your relationship and your integrity. As someone else wrote on a different site, "a wound, not a death blow". Healing can happen in most cases - but, lots and lots of time, hard work and commitment.

By the way, a "wayward mind" isn't about the cheating. It's the stuff that comes around it. The excuses. The lies people tell themselves about why they had to do it. You dealt with yours, your husband will hopefully at some point come to terms with his.

Good luck, whatever you choose to do.

[This message edited by forgettableDad at 1:53 AM, Wednesday, November 3rd]

posts: 275   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2019
id 8696515
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 4:09 AM on Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021

Yes, your relationship is getting progressively complicated. Where will you end up?

I try and keep an open mind regarding alternative lifestyles.

Are you truly happy and content with this situation? Are you making comprimises you wouldn't normally make if you hadn't cheated.

In business and military strategy they call this pushing a bad position.

It seems like the affair fall out is still falling out. It seems that you two have not genuinely reconciled for whatever reason. This seems more along the lines of an RA.

Your past affair should not condemn you to a lifetime of retribution and abuse.

You don't deserve this. You don't have to tolerate this.

I was crushed by my ExWW, but I would never do this to her-especially after agreeing to enter reconciliation. This is sadistic. Do you two have children?

You may have to consider cutting your losses and just making a new start.

posts: 732   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8696544
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redbaron007 ( member #50144) posted at 9:01 AM on Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021

He feels he has sacrificed a lot and he has. Always putting us first. I did cheat on him 5 years ago and he has held resentment against me ever since always thinking I would do it again.


For some BSs, trust once lost, is lost forever. It's clear your affair destroyed your marriage five yers ago. As you say, he has sacrificed a lot, he clearly still resents you for your affair, and constantly thinks you would do it again - so he does not trust you at all. Yet he does not leave you, for reasons that are difficult to gauge sine we have limited information. Has his lover professed her love for him, or is he wooing her and waiting to see the result of the courtship? Is she married as well, maybe cheated on too, and they've each found a shoulder to commiserate? Is he just monkey branching, or does he feel you opened the marriage 5 years ago, and he's quite happy in this open marriage?

Me: BS (44)
She: WS (41)
One son (6)
DDay: May 2015 (OBS told me)
Divorced, Zero regrets, sound sleep, son doing great!
A FOG is just a weather phenomenon. An Affair Fog is a clever excuse invented by WS's to explain their continued bad behavior.

posts: 228   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2015   ·   location: West Coast
id 8696563
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 keljpvs (original poster new member #79553) posted at 11:29 AM on Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021

[This message edited by keljpvs at 7:02 PM, Friday, December 3rd]

posts: 48   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: Fredericksburg,VA
id 8696580
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 11:40 AM on Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021

When you continually focus on other people and what they want, spending all of your time trying to make them happy, you lose yourself completely. Has this always been your marital dynamic, you pushing your true self down to keep him happy?

I am worried about your mental and physical health and that of your children. Have you been checked for STDs? This situation is untenable and will not end well. Eventually you will break. There is only so much ongoing humiliation and soul crushing hurt that someone can withstand on an ongoing basis before they harm themselves or someone else.

Please consider continuing to love him but loving yourself more by divorcing. Save yourself. You are worth it.

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5285   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8696581
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 12:32 PM on Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021

This is far from a complicated situation.
You are being abused.

Look – Affairs don’t define the WS for life.
I won’t condone or support your decision to cheat 5 years ago, and it definitely impacted both you, your husband AND your marriage. Maybe to the point that what you call "marriage" has little resemblance to what most expectations are to marriage.
What can be done after d-day is basically one or the other: divorce or reconcile. I really haven’t seen any realistic alternative. There isn’t really any space for revenge or payback or anything of that nature. Divorce and live a happy life is maybe the only "revenge" but if you reconcile the BS forfeits whatever expectatinons there might be of revenge. And that is GOOD. Revenge is overrated.

You can expect consequences after your affair – but you should not be facing punishment. Like if he needs access to your phone and social media that’s a consequence and might even have a healing-limit, but it’s not punishment for your affair. In R openness becomes so expected its not even experienced as a consequence, but rather an expectation.

OK – He’s punishing you and you are accepting the abuse because you think you deserve it.
That because of your affair he’s entitled to do his thing.


No.

You are fully entitled to the expectation of a monogamous marriage. Despite your past affair. He did not have 20 Brownie merits he could use to screw up the marriage because you had an affair. At that time he had the options of D or R. You two decided (mutually) to R and it sounds like one or both of you really screwed that up. R is so much more than not meeting OM. So much more than ending an affair.

My suggestion:
Step back and look with reality at what he’s offering. Somebody has to stop the present abusive pattern. Since hes getting the best of two worlds it won’t be him.
You are perfectly entitled to tell him no – you don’t share husbands. That he has to chose you or the OW and that you are fine with divorce if that’s what he wants. Not choosing you and forfeiting her is an answer. Wanting her is an answer. Wanting both is an answer. It’s telling you he wants the present situation.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 10022   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8696588
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