SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

And I can start best with things I can control. Namely, me.

.............

-t2g

[This message edited by thyme2go at 5:47 PM, September 1st (Wednesday)]

((D))

I am so sorry.

I was hoping to see you have some happiness.

Defiance -

I am *SO* happy to read some of your responses later on in this thread.

I, too, have very often thought what LadyV has, but unlike her, I have never had the cojones to say it.

Her candor has given me the courage to say a couple of things I have thought that may help, and I will be fairly blunt:

1. As she alluded to, please think about how much of a factor your contentious work history is in your inability to find a job. Don't misunderstand...people can be real assholes. However, even if you don't have a degree, with 30+ years of experience, you should be getting calls FOR SOMETHING. I realize I am not in your field - but I ran this whole scenario by my SO who is, and after hearing the summary, he thinks that may be the problem as well. If this is, indeed, the case, follow Lady V's suggestions.

2) I have often felt that it's time to cut the cord with your kids. I am sure they are lovely kids. But they are adults. When I was 22, I was married, with a job and a mortgage. If they are incapable of totally supporting themselves, they ARE capable of having parttime jobs while going to school. They ARE capable of finding themselves roommates, eating ramen noodles, and sitting on goodwill furniture and milk crates. How many of us on this site had to do something similar? I worked full time and put myself through college -- no dad financing my lifestyle: He was DEAD. I think you need to have a sit down with your son and daughter and tell them that unless they start sharing some of their expenses, you too might be worked/stressed into an early grave. If they balk at that, it speaks volumes. Difficult ones to hear - but more reflective of THEM than of YOU.

3) All you know is in the northeast. All I ever knew was in the northeast, too. But THE NORTHEAST IS UNBELIEVBABLY EXPENSIVE. Out of NJ might not cut it. OUT of that whole region might be the answer. Texas has many opportunities.FL may have its problems, but our elderly folks demand no state income tax and a decent cost of living. You could make it here. You could be very successful here. Expand your job search beyond the Northeast. You love your cabin and like visiting...but in a recent blog, you ranted that it's nothing like it used to be and filled with people who don't appreciate the simple beauty. Find yourself another place of simple beauty. Visit the cabin once a year or so.

4) Learn to modulate your feelings. Passionate is one thing. Everyone likes someone passionate. But occasionally your tone doesn't say "passionate." Sometimes it screams "bitter" or "mean" or, frankly, "a-hole." Mind you, this advice is coming from someone who can come across witchy with a capital B. Maybe I'll learn how to do this along with you.

5) Having a conversation with your SO in person is essential. Does her mother come with her to take pictures? See if your SO will agree to once a week outings alone... even an hour or two. This is if you truly believe she is the person for you. This is the bare minimum. If she cannot or will not make even THAT commitment, please cut ties with her. Ten dollars says the woman can take a shower alone or go to the grocery by herself. If she has 45 minutes a week to run errands, she has 45 minutes to spend with you. You can run them together if nothing else.

I truly wish you the very best. I hope that things improve for you very soon and very dramatically. However, that will NEVER happen unless you are willing to take DRAMATIC measures to save yourself. Make no mistake. This is a matter of survival for you.

Good luck.

Stess,

I am an asshole. At least part of the time.

I don't mind be called on the carpet about things. Well, not all the time. Lately I am starting to let the walls drop and start to accept and listen to what people have to say.

Even if I don't care to hear it sometimes, or it hurts to hear.

But I can't grow and learn if I just resist anything that is uncomfortable.

I can't address every one of your points right now, Stess, but I did read them all.

I will say that I don't WANT to be paying to support my children at that house. I have made it very clear, as best I can, to both of them that they need to work on their future, and that they are adults.

But this is a very clever and convenient scenario that my ex has by having them live with her. She knows that it has a big impact on how my father sees the whole thing. (his grandkids). And that he works to pressure me to support her and do what I can because his grandkids live there. This is not as simple as it sounds.

They are unfortunately being used as leverage. And in a situation where I have little power at the moment. That can change, however.

Employment? Yep. Could be the word got out in my field that I am a poor investment, or trouble. It may not have gotten everywhere, but I bet it is a possibility. One of the great benefits of having to try to deal with just way too much for too long, and it impacted on me, my performance, and my attitude.

At one point, I pretty much was throwing in the towel.

There are many reasons why I don't want to leave the Northeast. And there are cheaper areas. Parts of PA and NY State, for instance. NJ is the most expensive place on the planet, practically.

Thanks for all your comments and the advice. Moderation is a very good choice for me to make, and course to pursue. Agreed.

-D

Defiance,

I keep reading this thread and thinking how lucky you are to have so many great friends here. I'm a little envious.

I for one, am cheering for D. And I hope he finds a job.

But the cold truth is it is nearly impossible at his age. Oh, the companies won't ever tell him that - they will say he is "over qualified".

I watched it in my own family. My dad got laid off at 52, and never worked again. And that was 30 years ago. He went out all day long for years trying to find something.

I'm retired and looking for a part time job. I have 30 years experience and got outstanding evals every year. My record is spotless.

When I retired, I was making $80,000 a year. Now I can't even get minimum wage. That is just a fact of life.

It is against the law to discriminate because of age, but it happens all of the time. They just don't tell you.

((((def)))

Perhaps you are addicted to the drama/attention that you often post on here?

Don't look outside yourself for validation or you'll often be disappointed.

They are unfortunately being used as leverage. And in a situation where I have little power at the moment. That can change, however

I was struck by this.

I want to preface this by saying that I do not know your children, so take this with a grain of salt.

Your xw can attempt to use your children as leverage. She might even be fairly successful at it.

However, I have a different, uglier view. I'm sorry.

Your children are willing participants in this "leveraging" and manipulation. Because it IS manipulation. Your children are adults and can SEE for themselves how difficult things are for you. However, instead of trying to lessen your burden, they are right there in line with their hands out.

I seem to recall you posting something about a computer for your daughter and her expecting it and/or not appreciating it. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I remember reading that and thinking that it sounded like my 11 year old. Your kids are old enough to hear, "I'd love to help you and I would if I had any extra money. Unfortunately, you'll have to use the public library (or the college library) because I don't have the money to get you another right now."

I want you to think about that for a while, please. It is an admirable thing for you to want to go above/beyond to help them. But you can't. They can see that you can't. But still they, too, are lining up to take take take.

Save yourself first.Remember the oxygen mask analogy. Attend to yourself first - then help others.

I sorta saw this coming. I mean, just the way she was, so chained to her mother. Not good at her age.

Hang in there.

Love do

Stess, I know, and I hear you. And yes, they play along. It is disconcerting.

I still have hope that they will want to break free and be on their own. My daughter I know, wants to. She is taking positive steps with her college and training in medical transcription on the side.

My son is working and has a chance to be able to find a way to room with someone or make other arrangements. I hope that he does.

For what is worth, that is exactly (or nearly) the words I have used to them now.

I have told them repeatedly. I have no money. I cannot help you. I am sorry. End of discussion. My daughter's computer is dead. My response to here was, "I am very sorry for that, but I cannot help you".

This is a complicated situation, politically. There are ways for me to extricate myself from this hole, but I don't think that rash, the hell with it, not paying move is the way to go.

I think that would end up harming me far more than helping me. At THIS point in time.

do-over.

We have agreed to talk more and in person about our relationship and try to come to a compromise, and understanding. In a rational way.

I have not been rational. I have been emotional. And that does not help.

I am hopeful we can salvage something that works for us both.

-D

((D))

Reading through this whole thread I really appreciated the comments that others gave. Real words of wisdom for all us there!

One thing to consider is whether enabling your children to avoid becoming fully functioning adults (whether the enabler is yourself, your father or your Xwife) is creating the very same co-dependence on a parent that your SO suffers from. It also creates a sense of entitlement that will be a millstone to their own life happiness.

As much as I love my children I know that they can and will suck the life out of me and think nothing of it. They love me dearly, would never want to hurt me but they don't have the life experience or ability to see beyond their own self centered world. I have to set the boundaries and hold them accountable.

I wonder if either you or your SO are really in a place in your lives to make a lifetime commitment. Very wise to slow down and rethink this. I wish the best for you!

D - I've stayed out of this until now. I totally understand what you're going through with your adult children.

My youngest DS moved in with me when he graduated college. He worked part-time trying to be a personal trainer and really contributed very little to household expenses. But I was so lonely, having recently moved to the city by myself. He lived with me for two years, and took advantage of me. He left for a year and returned for 6 months.

I had a VERY hard time setting boundaries with him. My IC said that was probably normal as I had suffered so MANY losses that I didn't want to "lose" my son too.

But, I bit the bullet and set some very firm boundaries the last time he was home with me, one being it was ONLY going to be six months and that I expected certain things from him. And it did push him out of the nest and into independence.

And guess what? He still loves me. I CAN depend on him and his brother for anything - including some emotional support every now and then. They both know that I will do everything in my power for them, if needed.

They are both wonderful, productive, ambitious men who love their mother.

So I get how hard it is to be firm with your adult children. It's so hard to push them towards responsible adulthood, but it will be worth it.

Hang in there D.

NL

Sorry to hear about this D.

I do have a dumb question. Since you aren't working or haven't been that much. Why do you have to pay the huge Alimony? Not sure of the laws where you live but how can they expect someone jobless or with an income much less than before to pay that huge ammount? Is there any possible way to get that reduced? If so, then you could help your kids some if you wanted to.

Hey D

Have you pursued the possibility of being declared disabled based on your health issues ?

I was reading up on the New Jersey Permanent Alimony laws, and it seems that your health problems, unemployment, inability to secure a job could combine to be a strong justification for Alimony reduction. It wouldn't be cheap to pursue, and would require an appearance by your physician, but in the long run might be worth it?

=========

Can my deteriorating health condition constitute sufficient grounds to justify a termination of alimony?

The most common ground that men use to support a motion to reduce/terminate alimony is a major illness or deteriorating health. The key issue in any alimony case based on illness is the severity of the illness, and its impact on the payor/husband’s ability to earn an income.

In most cases, if the payor/husband has filed sufficient moving papers, then most family courts will grant him a Lepis plenary hearing. These hearings can be extremely expensive to litigate because the applicant will have to produce a doctor(s) to verify his medical condition or illness to the court. Please keep in mind that medical records are hearsay. A lawyer can’t introduce the medical records unless they are substantiated by a medical professional. An applicant has two options that he can choose to pursue in a Lepis case based on the grounds of illness or a medical condition. The applicant can retain one doctor to review all of the medical records. Thereafter, this doctor can prepare an expert’s report, and testify at court. Alternatively, the applicant can subpoena the treating physician, and compel his or her appearance at the Lepis plenary hearing. Unfortunately, the later option has its drawbacks. Doctors like to be paid. Moreover, they don’t like to spend their days in court. The doctor may become so upset by being subpoenaed that he/she may drop the applicant as a patient.

In summary, in any Lepis case that centers around a “change in circumstances” based on an illness or medical condition, medical professionals must be brought in to testify. The doctor will have to prepare an expert’s report, and also be willing to testify about his/her findings at the Lepis plenary hearing. In my experience, most doctors require a $2,500 to $5,000 retainer to prepare a report of this nature and to appear at trial. Nonetheless, if the alimony obligation is oppressive, then the high retainer fees to the evaluating physician may well be worth it. It is almost impossible for an applicant to prevail in an alimony reduction case based on an illness or medical condition unless a qualified medical expert is brought in to testify at the Lepis hearing.

====

I was declared to be disabled by the Social Security Administration. Does this event constitute a “change of circumstances” to warrant a termination of alimony?

If a person is declared disabled by SSA, then this event constitutes a change of circumstances to justify a reduction or termination of alimony. In the case of Golian v. Golian, 344 N.J. Super. 337 (2001), the court held that a declaration by the Social Security Administration (SSA) that a wife was disabled and eligible to receive Social Security benefits was prima facie proof of a disability. Moreover, the court held that a declaration of eligibility to receive Social Security also constituted a change of circumstances to enable the applicant to receive a Lepis hearing.

(edited to remove extra characters inserted during paste)

[This message edited by SunsetLost at 9:31 AM, September 2nd (Thursday)]

hey, I am really sorry for how you are feeling at the moment..

and I have not been following you threads in detail and same abotu the responses..

therefore, please forgive me if this has been said before..

have you ever considered that what you are doing is a little bit of self sabotage? i mean not listening to the lady in the first place.. agreeing to v high alimony... not being able to find a job fo so long...

just a thought and please dont be offended - it is with good intentions!

I am not offended.

I have had to take a very hard look at myself, and realize that yes. Some of what I have been doing is self-destructive and Self-sabotaging.

No doubt. At all.

Recent events have led me to a better and more full realization of that fact, and to draft plans to overcome it. And to work towards the positive, and not allow myself to fester in a depressive state, and pile it all on my own head...and to blame the rest of the world.

Yes, I have taken a load of shit, and had some horrible luck. But I cannot hang on to that and make it an excuse for failure, or for quitting, or for blaming everyone but me.

The alimony issue. That was not a case of me defeating myself.

That was a case of a woman who had all the leverage, all the might, the best attorney, and me and my dad on the ropes. She forced us to spend until I was bankrupt, after having me removed from the house. By the time it got to settlement, I was told by my own attorney that going to trial was not going to get me a better decision. She knew all the judges, and in my case they would rule 28-32 percent of my GROSS income, for life.

Woe to anyone who underestimates the capability of my ex-wife to be able to influence people to feel for her, to play the victim, or to be able to get people to do for her.

To answer the other question.

I get 2400 dollars per month in unemployment. Currently, 1800 of that goes directly to my ex-wife for alimony.

-Defiance

[This message edited by Defiance at 11:08 AM, September 2nd (Thursday)]

I get 2400 dollars per month in unemployment. Currently, 1800 of that goes directly to my ex-wife for alimony.

That's just insane. I urge you to consult with an attorney.

Defiance,

How is the situation you have with your children any different than the one your SO has with her mother?

When you talk about "leverage" and not being able to "extract yourself" from the situation whereby you are supporting your grown children, it generally sounds like some of the things you have said your SO says about her relationship with her mother.

You also allude to your father encouraging you to support the grown children. Again, your decision to tow that line is in the same category as the situation your SO is caught up in.

Defiance, none of this is healthy.

The healthiest thing you can do for everyone is to draw the line in the sand and say, "This ends today." Or, perhaps to be at least somewhat compassionate, you can say, "This ends in 60 days." Give the kids 60 days to get their sh*t together and start acting like the adults that they are.

I am just struck at how much you detest your SO's situation (and I would too...it is terribly dysfunctional) but your own situation is highly similar.

I think there is some projection going on here.

At any rate, I hope you can figure it out.

My advice would be to concentrate on fixing your own mess, and let your SO deal with hers. At this point, I don't think the two of you have a snowball's chance in h*ll until you both get on firmer ground independently.

Oh Defiance - I was so saddened reading that post of yours. I know I haven't been on these boards very long, but your situation pulls at my heart.

And I did want to gently add that I agree with what hurtinky posted. I was, in fact, going to post something similar.

I wish you all the best.