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Well, doesn't the alimony have to be paid whether the kids are with your ex or not?

Also, I forgot, how old are the kids? Are they attending college?

D: Have you looked into http://www.elance.com?

It's a freelancing networking website (ala LinkedIn) that matches companies looking for specific experience or those with project-based work to individuals meeting their criteria.

Just a thought...

She knew all the judges, and in my case they would rule 28-32 percent of my GROSS income, for life.

Well geez D, since your Gross income is $2400 a month now your alimony at 32% would only be $896 a month. Sounds to me like you would have come out ahead if you HAD gone to trial.

The trial would have cost another 15 grand that I did not have. And it's not a percentage that changes when your income drops.

The settlement I ended up with was 32% of my Gross at the time, based on the last 3 years of work. They don't use a percentage as the figure in a settlement, either. They only use that to figure the amount. Then the amount in dollars is what's ordered.

That amount was $3500.00 per month.

That is the amount in the decree.

Well, doesn't the alimony have to be paid whether the kids are with your ex or not?

Yes.

-Defiance

[This message edited by Defiance at 4:01 PM, September 2nd (Thursday)]

When you talk about "leverage" and not being able to "extract yourself" from the situation whereby you are supporting your grown children, it generally sounds like some of the things you have said your SO says about her relationship with her mother.

(The following is a response to a number of posts, not just the one quoted above, about the alimony and the kids issues)

I don't directly support my grown children. What I do is pay my ex alimony, and my kids rely on that and her modest income to live there.

I don't need to tell my children that I won't pay for their housing. What I am paying is alimony.

I would have to tell my ex-wife that I am no longer paying that. And of course, there are laws against me doing that.

The leverage being applied is the children are depending on their mother (rightly or wrongly) and that now means that if I stop paying, all 3 of them are affected. (They will not be able to afford their residence, and will have to find a way to move out or be evicted)

It is similar to my SO's situation, in that there is no easy way to extract.

It is SO easy to tell me to tell someone to take a hike and that I can't pay.

There is a fucking court order in place that orders me to pay her. As it is, even though it is still crippling to me, I am only now paying little more than half of what was ordered, and she is accepting that.

To top it off, she is now disabled and cannot work.

Can you IMAGINE me saying now to all involved that I am just going to stop paying?

Want to see how fast I am in jail on work release? (Rare, but not impossible).

Or at the very least, a warrant issued for non-payment. And then of course my father, both of my children, and my ex-wife would either disown me, or hate my guts for life.

Additionally, when I do again find work, and can afford an attorney, and I want to go to a court to negotiate a reduction or change in circumstance, no judge will have any sympathy for me having decided to run from my obligation and from the courts.

This isn't so damned simple.

Of course my kids should be on their own. Of course I should not have to suffer and pay this insane amount.

But it is not as if I can just wave the magic wand, say "SORRY" and get away with any shred of a life left to save.

In this respect, I DO understand a lot of what my SO is dealing with. And that is why I have come around and admitted that it is on MY shoulders, not hers. And that we need to work on things as a couple, fairly and equitably and rationally.

-Defiance

[This message edited by Defiance at 4:54 PM, September 2nd (Thursday)]

I'm sorry, I thought that you were paying extra for the grown kids. Not sure where I came up with that, but that's where I was coming from. I was thinking that paying extra for their living expenses, on top of the court ordered alimony, is over the top crazy.

I do understand that not paying the alimony could land you in jail.

I'm just stunned that they are giving her that much, for so long.

My stbxwh makes 3x what I make and my attorney told me that I was not entitled to one red cent of alimony, even though living off of my income only would create a severe change in my standard of living compared to what I was accustomed to. I am, however, very fortunate that my stbxwh has been and will continue to be very generous and compassionate. He is giving me alimony in the amount that evens up our incomes. And that's after already giving me all (Yes, ALL) of our marital assets and paying off all marital debt and supporting me during the separation. Anyways, in my state, alimony is only court ordered for "rehabilitation" and for a temporary time period. I'm lucky. I don't need rehabilitation and he's agreeing to give me the alimony until I remarry. Which is forever.

It would seem to me that you could find a compassionate attorney somewhere to assist you in getting the alimony payment lowered. I don't see how any court would put their stamp of approval on a plan that would leave you without living accomodations of your own. That's just insane. And even if it costs you to go back to court, the vast majority of lawyers will allow you to make payments. I have tons of friends who are making rather tiny monthly payments on huge divorce related legal bills. But, if you look around long enough, you could probably find an attorney who has been in your shoes and is eager to help out another man who lost it all in a divorce.

FWIW, I understand that those of us who are reading your story don't really understand all the nuances of the situation. We're just fumbling around trying to offer insight and advice, some of which is not so insightful and/or helpful. I apologize for my own incorrect assumptions and dumb advice.

(((((Defiance))))

Hang in there. Things work out the way they are supposed to. I firmly believe that. We just don't understand at the painful times.

[This message edited by hurtinky at 10:47 PM, September 2nd (Thursday)]

i am not sure how law works in the US but tbh it just would seem reasonable to adjust the alimony payments with regards to your situation. what happesn if yous top having unemployement benefits? will they just put you in jail?

i simply dont believe it could be this way..

i think it would be best for you to STOP complaining about it and start investigating HOW to lower the payments.. and act on it! you are an intelligent man - you can read law yourself and make an application to court - it is not that complicated!

set some goals and deadlines for yourself and get organised..

once you have that sorted you can start imagining what life you want and think how to get it.. either requalification or anything..

your destiny is in your hands..

If you've done the research and there is simply no recourse, then okay, there's no recourse.

However, often when I read the (mostly BW) abuse stories here on SI it becomes obvious that part of what has happened to the victim over the years is that the abuser has become all powerful in their minds, which is of course what the abuser intends them to believe. So they give up and don't even try. The abuser is of course not particularly powerful.

So if she's really a very powerful supervillain, okay. I just don't know that you are seeing her clearly, any more than some of these BWs who are like, earning all the money while their raging abusive underemployed WH sits around playing video games all day are seeing his weak, ineffectual, easily discarded ass clearly.

[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 4:55 AM, September 3rd (Friday)]

I don't know D. You seem to be keeping yourself in the middle of the drama again. You laying it on the line was the healthiest thing you could do for yourself and her. Now you retracted that and are continuing to work on a relationship that appears doomed before it is even started.

It also sends a bad message that your deal breakers and boundaries mean nothing.

Life really doesn't have to be so complicated. I had constant conflict in my life years back. A great deal of that had to do with me and bringing that conflict knowingly in to my life.

i think it would be best for you to STOP complaining about it and start investigating HOW to lower the payments.. and act on it! you are an intelligent man - you can read law yourself and make an application to court - it is not that complicated!

It is important to note that my ex-wife sometimes reads here. Let me just say that I have already investigated in this area, (thanks to one SI member who gave me a great lead) and as soon as funds are available, I will be taking the next steps that I feel are prudent in resolving this situation. Clearly, I am not going to settle for the status-quo, if I do not have to, because it is so debilitating to me to allow it to continue.

LadyV,

I face a court system here that is overwhelmingly biased. (I have attorney friends who confirm what I have already witnesses myself). It is an uphill struggle. The courts are backlogged for a very long time with petitioners trying to get alimony reductions.

It is possible. It requires a good attorney, and takes at least as much money and time as a divorce. (I have this on authority from an attorney).

That does not mean that I will do nothing and just accept things as they are.

I guess my fear of her is based on what has already happened. How I was able to be blindsided, and set reeling. She did things I never even considered her capable of. And when it came time to get rid of me, she was more brutal and vicious than anything I have ever seen in my life. Before, or since.

Life really doesn't have to be so complicated. I had constant conflict in my life years back. A great deal of that had to do with me and bringing that conflict knowingly in to my life.

I am learning, slowly, that I am responsible for this too, and that I need to work hard against it, and to find the answers in myself, not look for blame elsewhere.

-D

[This message edited by Defiance at 6:57 AM, September 3rd (Friday)]

I guess my fear of her is based on what has already happened. How I was able to be blindsided, and set reeling. She did things I never even considered her capable of. And when it came time to get rid of me, she was more brutal and vicious than anything I have ever seen in my life. Before, or since.

For what little it's worth, D, I completely understand this sentiment.

I don't know NJ law, but FWIW, in some states a petition to modify child support, or alimony, can be granted retroactively to the date it was filed.

So, if you were to find a lawyer who would help you, if a petition is filed and you reduce the payments to a more realistic amount (to provide yourself with basic needs), just the fact that you've filed the petition would mitigate a potential finding of contempt.

Also, in some states, to be held in contempt for failure to pay, there has to be a finding of ability to pay. They're not going to put you in jail for paying money you never had. The courts require a wilfull failure to pay. And a present ability to pay.

Imprisonment for contempt for failure to pay support is an extreme remedy. And if it's granted, the person imprisoned should be considered to "have the keys to their jail cell". Meaning the judge thinks they have the money, they just don't want to pay it.

On the down side, if it's non-modifiable permanent alimony, it probably can't be modified.

So much too depends on the individual judges. They have a lot of discretion.

Or at the very least, a warrant issued for non-payment. And then of course my father, both of my children, and my ex-wife would either disown me, or hate my guts for life.

If i step out of line here....i apologize....but..

who cares?!?

I mean...you already KNOW your XW could care less about your well being, but your children, seriously?

If i was your grown child or your father and i saw how much you were trying to do the right thing and were DROWNING while doing it....i would try to help you, not sit on my yaht (the duplex you are paying for) drinking fine wine and watch you sink for entertainment.....how roman of them.

If the people that apparently love you so much see you drowning, but don't want to see THEIR life style change to help you....Screw'em!

That's nuts!

Shame on your children!

By the way...>Brazil doesnt have extradition and they have A.M.A.Z.I.N.G wild life to photograph....Two words for you D....Tropical Paradise!

So, if you were to find a lawyer who would help you, if a petition is filed and you reduce the payments to a more realistic amount (to provide yourself with basic needs), just the fact that you've filed the petition would mitigate a potential finding of contempt.

Good advice and very good point. Found a lawyer specializing in exactly these cases. Just need a way to afford to retain them.

On the down side, if it's non-modifiable permanent alimony, it probably can't be modified.

There is no statement of non-modification. Change in circumstance should apply here.

If the people that apparently love you so much see you drowning, but don't want to see THEIR life style change to help you....Screw'em!

While I would not use those last two words towards my children or father, the sentiment, and the feelings I have about this, are identical to your post.

Brazil doesnt have extradition and they have A.M.A.Z.I.N.G wild life to photograph....Two words for you D....Tropical Paradise!

I would melt and sweat to death in the first month. I hate the heat and the humidity. I'm a Northern boy. Seriously, I don't want to leave the country. I want to change my life, and fight the future (to borrow a phrase from the X-Files).

-D

[This message edited by Defiance at 2:54 PM, September 3rd (Friday)]

Just wanted to put in some support for you D.

A lot of very valid points have been made about your own viewpoint needing to change as well as practical ways to change it.

And it is certainly reasonable to expect BS's to eventually quit playing the victim and realize that their life is what it is and only they have the power to change it now.

That being said, you've really taken a lot of hard hits over the years, as have all of us BS's. And it is DAMN hard to make all the adjustments and changes we need to in order to even survive let alone while we're reeling from the devastation and pain.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, yes, it may be time to do some introspection into your life and your contribution to your situation, but you deserve some compassion and support.

You've been dealt a particularly hard hand, so don't get down on yourself.

Change what you can. Accept that your SO may also be struggling to change what she can.

And life is just damn hard sometimes and its not all our fault!

A lot of very valid points have been made about your own viewpoint needing to change as well as practical ways to change it.

And you know...this thread, and some of the advice and insight have finally gotten me to admit this to myself. To finally realize that I can't keep making excuses, or blame the horrible past and bad luck, for everything in my life.

I am taking a harder look at myself and my behaviors. I have to. Because that is the only thing I CAN change to benefit myself.

Thanks so much for the support and compassion. Yes, we all do need that. And I have been reeling. The stress has been over the top. But now that I am starting to accept responsibility for changing things...for working at positive change, and working harder to get out of this hole, I feel better.

I may not be able to change everything, but I damn sure can do more, for myself, and from within myself, to make things happen.

The time for me to blame the past and my ex and everything else is over. I have suffered many setbacks. But whining about them will not change my future. Time I did something about it. Past time.

-D

I may not be able to change everything, but I damn sure can do more, for myself, and from within myself, to make things happen.

The time for me to blame the past and my ex and everything else is over. I have suffered many setbacks. But whining about them will not change my future. Time I did something about it. Past time.

So glad to hear it. Onward and upward D.

I wish you well.

The time for me to blame the past and my ex and everything else is over. I have suffered many setbacks. But whining about them will not change my future. Time I did something about it. Past time.

Hallelujah, D! Good luck.

Thanks Abby, and stonewall_wife.

It has take a lot for me to accept the truth. But thanks to some great (and tough, honest advice and criticism here), I am coming around.

It is SO easy to fall into the mode of victim. And I played that fucking role WAY too long.

I do have a lot of great things happening in my life. Things that should be encouraging me to try even harder.

And I hope to report to you here about those kinds of things. And to stop whining about what has happened to me, and start talking about what I am doing to make a difference in my life.

I cannot thank you all enough for finally waking my ass up.

-Defiance

great to hear, d. keep those eyes open.

wolf