SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am not sad over your choice, I am sad for the continual loss.

Sending you lots of hugs.

Wow

Wow

Unlike me, she is not willing to risk the protective apron of her mother to actually have a real relationship with me.

She continues tonight to talk about her medical issues. About her mother.

And I have no more patience.

I do not see this lasting.

Because she does not have the guts or the fortitude to go it alone, and grab what she wants out of life.

I would rather fucking die than let my daddy dictate my future.

And I stand ready to do just that, should it come to it.

There are times in our life when we must make a choice.

She has chosen the safety of her mother's apron.

I choose to stand alone and fight the future.

And therein lies the failure of this.

I stand alone.

-Defiance

D, I'm so sorry it's come to this but I think you're doing the right thing.

I truly hope this gives her the wake-up call she needs.

XO,

WB

She will never wake up. You should see the e-mails I got tonight.

Fucking pathetic.

I am burning the fucking bridge.

I deserve SO much more.

And I am not settling.

Ever again.

Fuck the world.

Here I am. Take me for what I am of get the fuck out of my way for someone who will.

-D

I agree with that, D... you deserve the world.

Don't settle for less.

If I had been half as smart as I claim to be, I would have seen the futility.

Yeah, about 80-90 percent of us could use that as our tagline. It's so much easier for all of us to go back and see the obvious.

I am concerned that you tie the inability of this person to make glaringly obviously healthy choices directly to YOU.

I don't want to give the impression that I am blaming you for getting involved with someone that has some pretty serious boundary issues with her mother.

At some point in this relationship you had to let out a low whistle and think "this relationship with her mom is just kind of freaky", what is going on in your thought process to stay involved beyond that point and to even consider marriage?

What did you see in her, in your relationship with her that kept you interested?

Oh, I accept the blame for my stupidity. Totally.

This is as much my fault as anyone's.

No question there.

I wonder now if I will ever learn.

And that I need to demand more.

And stop thinking I can change the world.

-D

I think why2008 is asking some good questions. It's not necessarily that you need to beat yourself up or make demands, it's that you're opening yourself up for a lot of hurt if you consider yourself in a relationship before dating, or before seeing the obstacles for what they are. We don't want to see you hurt.

Let her go gently, she's just not in a place where relationships are possible. Her explanations may seem pathetic to any independent adult, but imagine what 48 years with that kind of controlling person running your life can do to your self-esteem. This wasn't a decision for her, it's just a fact of life.

Thanks Red Sox Nation, I am having problems writing coherent thoughts and you really summed up what I've been poorly trying to express in this thread.

It's not necessarily that you need to beat yourself up or make demands, it's that you're opening yourself up for a lot of hurt if you consider yourself in a relationship before dating, or before seeing the obstacles for what they are.

D you wrote "She has chosen the safety of her mother's apron."

It really is the only choice she is mentally capable of making. Like Red said...

Her explanations may seem pathetic to any independent adult, but imagine what 48 years with that kind of controlling person running your life can do to your self-esteem. This wasn't a decision for her, it's just a fact of life.

D, you also wrote...

... I need to demand more.

And stop thinking I can change the world.

Why do you accept a relationship that is so limiting?

Why don't you think you deserve more?

Why do you think you can change the world?

Did part of you get involved with this woman because she was unavailable and therefore safer?

Did part of you feel like you could save her from her miserable dependence?

Fuck, I picked the right prefix for my name "why"!

Well, D- I can't say that I didn't see this coming. Apparently she is content continuing to be the "child" at this point in her life, for whatever reason. I suspect she was hoping for someone who was equally immature or limited who would also accept that role- and you are NOT that person.

You are right- it's her loss. But she is choosing the predictability of that abusive relationship over the chance at something better, and that choice is ALL hers, even though it's a very common result in situations like this.

You hoped against hope that she would have the guts to take charge of her own life, and she did not. No matter how easy that makes the choice for YOU, it still hurts. I'm sorry for that, my friend. (((hugs))))

I am very sorry that this did not turn out the way you hoped it would.

I think Why's questions might best be thought about in a week or two or four - when your emotions surrounding this situation have calmed a bit. But they ARE necessary questions.

You *are deserving of a real relationship. I was very afraid for you when you said you proposed without ever having been on a date.

Please please please think about why you were willing to do that. Not the "I'd hoped it would eventually change" part...but the real why. You don't have to post your answers here.

You are worth more than emails and promises. Never ever ever think otherwise again.

ETA: I want to put this out there before you say this woman or the chance of a future with her is something you "lost" -- :::gently::: You can't have lost a relationship you didn't have to begin with.

Please know I'm not being harsh. In the end, you may lose a very, very dear friend. If it comes to it, you will have lost a pen pal or phone buddy.

In this case, you will be losing far LESS than what you think you're losing.

[This message edited by Stessierere at 4:57 AM, September 1st (Wednesday)]

I think that a good examination of the whys of this chain of decisions would be something good for about 4-6 weeks from now.

I'll throw out my own questions as well:

A common theme in a lot of your thoughts is that people do not consider you "good enough" to stay with. Let me turn that around and propose that perhaps you choose people who are limited in that regard because that is a familiar pattern to you. If they break the pattern, then that's a huge victory. If they stay in the pattern, that's familiar to you. Win-win.

Obviously with the above, what needs to change is you and your mindset. You cannot prevent someone from being limited in their ability to be in a relationship, but you can avoid getting involved with them in the first place.

Again, things to consider when the dust has settled and the initial pain has eased. I think your FOO and your marriage dynamics play into this as well. I know I've had to fight my own battles with this, and it's not easy. But it is worthwhile when you can see the trainwreck several blocks before you actually get there.

Cat

I'm so sorry D.

(((D)))

((((D))))

Knew this was your post even before I actually clicked on it!!

So sorry that you are willing to give up on "hope", just because you put your faith in your SO, especially knowing that it might be a long shot. But we learn from our mistakes and move on.

I think I remember that when you chose to be in a relationship with her, that you lost a friend in the process??? Someone that was interested in you?? So if there have been 2, there will be more!!! Are you seriously going to give up hope???

Light is just beginning to shine in your little corner... give it time... because you never know!!

Keeping you in my thoughts!

It's a shame you can't consider moving to the midwest... alot of women here would love to get to know you!

HANG TOUGH,

LOVIN

D,

Please take some time to make this situation a catalyst for some positive change in your life.

You ask this woman to marry you via phone, never make the actual proposal in person, and then "demand " that she change.

you cannot demand respect or love. Nobody can change another person.

You post regularly about you being loved and accepted for yourself, yet you were not willing to do this for her.

You knew - and even posted about - the controlling mother, the never being alone ... this was HER.

Take some time to work on yourself, D, but do it with both eyes open. I'm saying this as a friend - as someone who has been reading your posts for years, as someone who understands and cares more than you realize:

it's time to shed the role of the victim and move forward. It's time to live.

Wolf

You worry me sometimes, you vacillate from desperate straights to fantastic highs.

I often think this. It must be so difficult on you both mentally and *physically* to lurch back and forth like this. It wears the body down.

(((D)))

I think Why, Red and Cat are on the money.

If there is one thing I've learned through my first marriage, divorce, dating and current marriage- it's that you can't change someone. Funny, I think I remember people telling me that since kindergarten... but sometimes we have to live through some harsh lessons to see it.

It's not to say people can't change- but like we tell BS's who are considering R here- people have to WANT to change for themselves, not for anyone else.

Your SO is not ready, or doesn't want, to change, and that has NOTHING to do with you or your relationship. It is all on her.

I understand the hope, I really do. I totally get how you could've really thought this might be it- you two had quite a connection on some level, I know. I don't think it was a bad decision to get involved, per se, but I think perhaps you assumed she was ready to change. This has been my downfall many times, too.

You had strong feelings for her- I don't think the relationship was a mistake- perhaps had you never gotten involved, you would've wondered. Now that you did, you know it's not a workable relationship for you. And that's OK. Most relationships don't work out.

Just, please, don't blame yourself. I do think it's worth examining the questions PP have asked, but not in the context of this having been a huge mistake... just a way of figuring out what it is you do need in a relationship and what that person may look like.

[This message edited by hill at 7:25 AM, September 1st (Wednesday)]