SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You wife had unprotected sex with men from Craiglist!!

Sorry. Welcome to SI. To add, maybe you also seek help as she seeks help. 180 please to help your healing. Your 'us' is still at a distance clearly. Leave church counsellors out otherwise, my opinion is they worsen everything because they are professional rugsweepers and do no operate in the reality of everything.

Livingon,

You have received some very harsh responses, and I don't want you to shy away from this forum because of that. We are all coming from different perspectives, and from different stages of healing. Please take what you need from our reponses, and leave the rest.

I feel we all need to support you in what you feel you want, whether that be R or D, and right now, it appears you want to reconcile. I will try to provide support and advice from that perspective, and if you change your mind, and decide to D, well then I will support that also.

I think Bigger's comments are of great value, I believe he can provide a calmer form of guidance than perhaps others who are at an angrier stage.

If you want to reconcile, then seek guidance from other men who are trying to reconcile, rather than wasting precious time trying to defend your position to those that are not supportive of what you want.

I believe the horrific and demeaning statements your WW made about size and technique and all that bullshit has brought out the angriest of responses from the men, and I absolutely understand that. But please listen to Bigger's viewpoint on that issue...in assure you that your WW was just trying to deflect her anger at being caught...many many waywards respond in that same manner initially. They are hateful as hell.

As awful as all this is, even with the STD, it is still possible to R, if that is what you want. It is of course even more difficult because of the STD, but it is still possible.

YOU are the only one that REALLY knows what kind of remorse your WW is showing, and whether or not it is enough for you.

My only real advice at this point is, that you dig hard, and unrelentlessly, for every single tidbit of info you want NOW...if you relent at this point, it will only make it that much harder to get the info later. Strike while the iron is hot. Forgiveness too soon is a mistake.

YOU are in a position of great power right now...USE IT! Find out all you can NOW, because if more comes out later it will devastate you all over again.

Do the 180, and do things that make you feel good about yourself so that she will see that you are perfectly willing and capable of moving on without her if need be.

Peace.

My husband was trolling craigslist too. I found his secret email account because he forgot to log out of the computer. Im glad you're here and Im so sorry you have to go through this. You are getting great advice. I just wanted to say...from a wife of a husband who was screwing around with skanks(no offense to your wife,but craigslist IS skanky,nasty,gross,and yes,I include my husband in that),I want to thank you for doing the right thing and contacting the OM's wives. I wish someone had contacted me. Some BS's feel guilt for contacting the other BS,because they feel they destroyed a family. But,no. The WS destroyed the family. All you did was put an end to that destruction. So,thank you.

Livingon,

Welcome to SI, so so sorry you have found yourself here....none of us ever believed we would be a member of an infidelity site. I am so sorry for the pain you are in.

My advice is to seek a counselor who is EXPERIENCED with infidelity issues. Someone who will listen to YOU. Many of us, including myself, had to shop for a good counselor until we found one who related well to our situation.

Understand that the process of reconciliation is a long and painful journey, the roller coaster ride of your life. It will take YEARS to move through this, and that is with the help of your spouse who must be truly remorseful and willing to do anything YOU need to do to save the marriage.

In the meantime, meet with your doctor AGAIN to find out if your anti-depressant is at the correct dosage.

I also believe your wife needs some serious counseling. Not only did she put her marriage, and her health and your health at risk, but her lack of concern for her own safety in meeting with men she did not know is extremely disturbing.

In any event, please post as often as you need, you will find a great deal of support here.

I wish you peace in this journey.

LivingOn,

I am so sorry you have need for SI, but happy you found it so soon in your journey. painpaingoaway, Bigger, and the others have already given you excellant advice. Best wishes to you, this is a long journey no matter what path you take and where it leads to.

I am just not comfortable about your wife's response to you regarding her infidelity. She has cuckolded you and is now impatient with you because you are healing to slow. keep digging through this board. Read some of the ww on the ww forum. Look at their contrition then compare it to your wife's. My opinion is your wife is in counseling to feel better and to blame shift about her cheating. I will wager most of the time in therapy is spent with her giving reasons why she did it. And how she doesn't want to, or thinks she should have to stop. She doesn't respect you. She just doesn't show any contrition.

Just wanted to chime in and say that your wife was very mean both to have done what she did and to have said what she said. I think some WWs just do not understand that when they say this type of thing, it remains with the BH forever.

Your WW sounds extremely broken and messed up. Not only were her actions in trolling for random men and anonymous sex many standard deviations from the typical WW type of affair, but her response to being caught was exceptionally harsh.

There are patterns among discovered sheaters, as Bigger notes, the defensiveness, the hostility etc. But, your wife's remarks were crueler than we typically see.

Believe me, women know that men have insecurities about size and performance etc. Very few individuals will tap into that, as it is like crossing the Rubicon. Once planted,that seed of insecurity does not go away.

You need not make a decison immediately as to whether youwant to stay with your WW. But, she is going to need a ton of work, because she is so reckless and has a mean streak bigger than most people's.

My Ww said things to me immediately after D-Day that were also very hurtful, as a way of justifying what she did. It's awful how they talk themselves into believing alternate realitites to justify that behaviour. And yes, as bigger says most WS tend to be confrontational and defensive, instead of remorseful on D-day.

Try to get past that and see where you are. I am finally at a point of emotional detachment where S/D seems like the better option for me (kids complicate things for sure). Do the 180 as you have been. Once you get to that point, you have more power and control no matter what happens next.

I am sending you a private message.

I actually know someone going through this who lives in your area and has found some very knowledgeable therapists there that deal wit infidelity, sex addiction, and most of all understand the trauma it causes the betrayed spouse!

I will send a pm.

Your wife obviously doesn't care for you and is quite prepared to be appallingly cruel in describing the 'assets' of the OM.

Can't help but think that if it wasn't for the kids she'd be gone to pursue her exciting new lifestyle. That tells me that she will eventually return to this lifestyle, but be very much more careful in hiding it.

So with zero trust, residual bitterness and two diseases why are you staying? Divorce and go for full custody based partially on her exposing her children to herpes.

After all the humiliation and insults your wife has put your through, including infecting you with STD's, just how do you think she views your offer of reconciliation? With contempt I should imagine. That she could be this vicious and cruel and you still want to reconcile will not gain any respect from her. Thats the catch 22. She doesn't want you to divorce but won't respect you if you don't. No win situation.

Living, when I discovered my SO's (one of many) affair and confronted him, know what he said? "Why would I want to come home to your ugly face?"

At the time, I believe most people would have described my face as "attractive" if not "beautiful." I was pretty devastated, but not so devastated or self-confidence-free that I couldn't recognize this as lashing out.

I know it's hard to not react to what they say while in the fog, especially if you already have inadequacy issues, real or inagined. But try. You are making her confront her own demons and she doesn't like you holding a mirror up to her.

Wow. I'm triggering in a big way, because of the similarities to my situation. My WW posted on Craigslist with an ad that said, among other things, she was "desparate for some satisfying sex", and desiring a man who was at least an inch taller, an inch longer, and twenty pounds lighter than me. She got quite a few responses, emailed with two of them intensely, and settled on one to pursue. They met for drinks, then proceeded to meet up for sex three times before I found them out.

I found out by finding an email account she had created and reading some of the emails. I made the mistake of confronting her right away, and she got more careful. After I discovered hundreds of texts to an unknown number, she lied about whose number it was, and stopped texting. She and OM started using her work email address. Eventually I totally busted her by demanding her work email password, and then restoring all of her "deleted" messages.

She was very remorseful, and agreed to do everything she was supposed to, including answering all my questions, getting tested for STD's, marriage counseling, and total transparency. We're doing much better now.

From the initial Craigslist posting to me busting her was about three weeks long, from Oct-Nov of last year. So my situation happened in a very short span compared to your situation.

I'm telling you that you will get through this. I'm proud of you for informing all the other BS's. That was the right thing to do. I'm proud of you for seeking help from your doctor for depression. That shows good judgment. If you EVER feel like suicide again, you've got to PROMISE us you will call 911. And you'll talk to your doctor about it. Don't let the selfish actions of this woman defeat you.

Now comes the gentle 2x4. She's not properly remorseful, from what you describe. You say she won't go to joint counselling. You've got to demand that, if she wants to stay married. She must allow you total access to everything, and be totally accountable for her whereabouts. She must answer ALL your questions, on YOUR timetable. She must be willing to let you heal at your pace. She hurt you, now she must do whatever it takes for you to heal.

It sounds like she's not yet willing to do that, so you've got to implement the 180 in a big way. You have to make her realize what life could be without you, and that you are thinking about life without her. This is what you have to do if you want to get her to the point of totally realizing what she may be losing. If this doesn't set her on the path towards reconciliation, you've got to be willing to see a lawyer and start the filing process.

This is ALL on her. She said hateful things about you. She is broken, and she may be beyond fixing, but she's going to step up and convince you she is trying everything she knows to get fixed.

I'm not religious, so I'm biased about this, but stay away from church counsellors. Find a good therapist that deals with infidelity a lot, who has a lot of experience with this kind of thing. One who won't point you towards BIBLE verses but will help you in your journey through all this madness.

Please feel free to PM me anytime. Please post as often as you can, and please try hard to take care of yourself.

[This message edited by story to tell at 12:20 PM, April 13th (Wednesday)]

Dear LO,

Your symptoms sound a great deal like what I have experienced. I actually sat out in the back yard in the dark with a loaded Glock. For some reason, I did not do it.

In our case, the infidelity was not as massive as that which your wife has committed. I just wanted to tell you that you need to make decisions based on what is best for YOU. I went through a D when my kids were young, and now they are grown up and are well educated, functioning professional adults. Did the D hurt them? Yes. Would it have hurt them more if I had stayed married to their abusive father? YES!!

So maybe her Craigslist romps are the deal breaker for you. Maybe you have a huge heart and they are not. I would wonder if you want to spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder, worried that she is at it again. A serial cheater is a difficult mountain to climb. I believe it is very hard to stop being a serial cheater.

As usual, I agree with everything Bigger said. Also, I started working out after our D-day, for ME. It has helped me feel better. I have started to emerge from this whole mess, but still sometimes have trouble keeping my head above water. It is a long process, really. Very long.

If I were you, I would a good, hard, honest look at your wife and try to figure out what is best for you. Your kids will not always be children, and it is possible to raise kids after a divorce. She has done a terrible amount of damage, but you have to decide to start putting one foot in front of the other and protecting your own interests. Sending you prayers for peace. Take care.

used again - we went through a phase where our counselor told me not to ask questions because it made her feel bad. That lasted months and was killing me. By the time she would answer questions again I felt like I didn't know what to ask anymore. It sounds like your spouse did it again? Then you divorced? I will do the same if she does it again.

Bigger - yeah, the time of her telling me the details was before she reached her true point of being sorry and realizing what she did. I know there were answers that were designed to hurt me, and if she had to tell me the details all over again she would say it differently, but there is also some truth to much of what she said, and it hurts beyond the obvious and cuts in deep.

I would like to think it is just the excitement and fantasy that did it. But, I think this asshole is someone who has sex with other women all the time, and he's been spending a lot of time working on his technique.

I know I didn't ruin the other families - their asshole husbands did. It wasn't as much about revenge as it was compassion towards the wives because I could relate so strongly.

Sudan has the largest penis size, huh? I hear the adult males in that culture do sick things to young boys to get them that way. And they'd stone my wife for doing what she did.

I would love to get to the bottom of why she did it. Peggy Vaughan says she might not even know why, but I still want to know why. I will pay special attention to your comment about "untreated infidelity." I need to look into this!!!

Your next point, my wife has acknowledged her actions and holds total responsibility and holds no justification for it. That happened several months in, so there has been progress on her part.

Painpaingoaway - thanks again. I read your post on "Fallout" and it was excellent and I gave it to my wife as you suggested. She is going to read it today.

My concern now is that I was asked to relent when the iron was hot and I didn't get all the answers I might have needed, and now I'm at the point where it is "that much harder to get the info later."

I am still going to look into the 180, but the depression feels so powerful that whether she's a part of my life or not, I feel horrible.

Before this happened to me, I always thought if it did I would absolutely get a divorce. I remember what I thought of people before all this, and it was completely different. I also understand the anger stage, I'm still there too in a lot of ways.

confused615 - thanks for saying that. I did wrestle with guilt, but I know, I KNOW I did the right thing. I did it in the nicest way possible, too. This is a seriously overlooked thing that needs to happen, always. There should be billboards!!!

annb - thank you. I'll talk to the doctor again. She said the tiredness is a symptom of depression.

Hardtoswallow - Man, when I learned about the word "cuckold" and read about it, it caused another round of agony. So totally and completely life shatteringly embarrassing and torturous. Her impatience is very frustrating right now, and you're right, it's not cool. I would say that she is not as sorry as other ww, at least she isn't showing it, but she is sorry, but her way of dealing with it is forgetting and moving on, and she doesn't realize what I'm going through. I think this is what has hindered my progress the most, but then again, look what happened.

I know that she is not blame shifting about her cheating, not now, not anymore. She did at first, bigtime. Now she takes full responsibility. I also know she is not giving reasons why she did it, because I would like to hear this information and would be told.

For any Christians out there, she has come to the place where she realizes that she not only cheated on me, but she cheated on God as well. She is now focused on healing herself through bible studies and she has mentors from the church who have experienced this on my side of things helping her. But, they are more about her getting right with God and less about helping me. I have been giving her the time she needs for this, but I am not getting any better.

Reggie - I agree. I have read and read and read, and talked to all these different people, and nowhere or no one has said what you have said just now. There are just no examples of this or how I can deal with this. The author of "First Aid For the Betrayed" told me that my story was "chilling." Peggy Vaughan told me those things I mentioned earlier, and when I mentioned the "female ejaculation" and the "why she did it" parts, it was like she was even stumped as to what to tell me, and she's the expert! This is all the more reason why we need expert advice and good therapy from qualified people, and it feels urgent.

Now we are also seeing a mentoring couple from the church and they are telling me that I need to lay off because it's hurting her! I don't know what I need, but whatever we're doing now is not working.

Feb 8 - I noticed all of that, the hurtful things and the justifications, all normal, and I wish I knew that at the time. I can't believe how recent you are in all this. Is your wife sorry? Is the 180 making you feel like you should D? There was an excellent audio interview on the Peggy Vaughan site where she answered questions from therapists, and she said that separation usually made things worse. I've read about what divorce would be like for the kids and it's not good. Difficult decisions no matter what we decide! I still need to look into the 180...

njgal480 - thanks for the pm! I'll check it out.

ok now - wow - that's a good point. I think there's something to it. I have heard her thank me for choosing to stay, but now I think it has turned into contempt. She's now upset with me for not having a job. I'm upset too, but all I can do is look! I'm more upset at what she did than I am about not having a job though.

lynnm1947 - that sucks! You're right about everything you've said. Thank you.

story to tell - you're story is so similar!!! You have to deal with one OM, multiple times, and I have to deal with multiple, single times, and one strong emotional affair. She actually told me she missed one of them! Several months in!!!

I don't know, but I think she is remorseful but it's just the bad advice we're getting that is steering her toward handling it like she is. I'm going to start the 180 and press the issue more and see what happens. Thanks so much for your reply and I'm sure I will have many more questions for you!

shattered123 - I can relate. If I had a gun I would have done the same thing. Points taken! I am getting a lot more exercise now, too. Trying really, really hard to ttake care of myself. The Lexapro is making me lazy though...

Thanks to everyone for responding. I really appreciate hearing from all of you.

There is just something terribly wrong with a person that could say the types of things your wife did. I understand theis fog theory and defensiveness etc. But, there are degrees of this, IMO.

I would think that any person with even a below average capacity for compassion and empathy, would be unable to voice the things your wife did, regardless of how caught up inthe affair she was or how hostile and pissed about discovery she was. \I think that those utterances would stick in the throat of a normal person, even if she was thinking them.

MY XW was a sadist , like this. She came home one night and gave me a detailed description ogf the physique of a younger, professional bike racer that she had been with unitl 3 that morning.

Later, after we divorced and I was over picking up our children for school, I made the mistake of telling her how hurt I had been by this. I thought that since time had passed, she would be mortified by having done this.

But, my mentioning it only enraged her and she proceeded to tell me, in front of my boys, that his equipment, in addition to his physique, was remarkable.

Normal people are not like this. Thye have concern about hurting others.

[This message edited by reggie at 2:46 PM, April 13th (Wednesday)]

I am so sorry. No one should have to hear the terrible things your wife said to you. I can feel your pain jumping off the page and I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Absolutely heartless. For her to say those things to you, in a fog or not, is absolutely heartless. And she is full on speaking out of her A$$! Realize that right now!!!! She's making herself feel better and placing the blame on you. She's a completely different person right now. Let's see.....10 years of sex with the same guy....duh, something new is going to SEEM exciting. She has no idea of the damage she's done and continues to do. You have to be willing to let her go. Maybe you'll end up together. Maybe not. You'll be ok either way my man. Hang in there!!!

LivingOn--lexapro can cause insomnia and make it worse if present, nervousness,anxiety, fatigue, hypertension, palpitations. Other antidepressants can cause palpitations too.

Beta blocker blood pressure pills and others to control the palpitations can cause insomnia and depression, and impotence. I had panic attacks a few years ago, and had to start a couple different BP pills and had really bad insomnia and felt more nervous while on them..It lasted forever and drove me nuts. I also got somewhat depressed,and investigated that too--beta blockers! Insomnia is a common side effect of beta blockers and others. The MD never mentioned this to me and I just happened to ask the nurse. They did not help my BP much, just made me feel weird, as I was on 3 different ones. Eventually I WEANED off them. You should talk about this with your doctor. These side effects can make you feel really bad and in my opinion should not be poo pooed by an MD. The burning sensation you mention could be from the lexapro too.

I got so fatigued I almost got short of breath with short walks which scared me, and I've been athletic and physically active my whole life. I read up on all this ( I have knowledge of meds.) and got rid of the symptoms when quitting these meds, insomnia not near as bad.

My EKG and stress test was normal too at the time.

[This message edited by Thinkingtoomuch at 5:21 PM, April 13th (Wednesday)]

Your not alone. My husband used Craigslist as well. The first two he responded to. The third was his own posting. It hurts I know. What you need to understand is that it is her problem. You did nothing wrong. She has a problem and you just happen to be the victim. Do not let this destroy you.

LivingOn

The asshole didn‘t have sex with other women all the time. They had sex with women when they had the chance. Just like I doubt all OM were substantially larger than you down there I also doubt they necessarily had better technique.

Think of it this way: If they are so good because they roam around and screw three new women per day then how can they learn from experience? How do they get critique and improve if they are always doing new women? It’s a rare person that’s so confident in a first sexual encounter that they direct and tell the other what they want and criticize performance. For all you know the OM repeat the same mistakes three times a day.

Look – you will read again and again that knowledge and intimacy are what really makes sex great. It’s the emotional attachment. In your WW case the quality of the adultery sex was controlled by her largest sexual organ – the brain – and not OM penis-size or technique.

LO – there is a certain contradiction in your posts… In one sense you are logical. For example in how you answer my post. You acknowledge that she says these things to hurt you. In another sense you are illogical – you say that these comments are what cause the most pain and damage.

I totally understand how undermining and tough those comments are. My fiancé “explained” how she needed OM for variety – therefore indirectly saying I was vanilla. I was in your shoes in the sense that my logical brain told me that the reason she cheated had nothing to do with me. My emotional brain kept on telling me I was lacking.

Try as you can to enforce in your mind that nothing is lacking in you. The reasons she had affairs are ALL in her.