SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Be carefull.

Until she can get back on her meds, you'll never be able to trust her.

Cannon, you're obviously an intelligent guy. But your wife is obviously a compulsive liar. Continuously taking her back without consequences serves to make it easier for her to repeat her deception.

She's fooled you too many times. If you are serious about taking her back, you need to set some strict conditions and protocols, and not be afraid to enforce them. She needs to know you mean business. Otherwise, you are only setting yourself up for more pain.

Satriani - thanks for the 2 x 4. Definitely welcome.

Gradient (or anyone) what "conditions" would be appropriate to demand if a R might be in order?

Well for a start, you could refer to my previous post on page 1.

Is there any chance she fell pregnant to OM?

If so IMO then treat any pregnancy as OMs baby and act accordingly.

What if she fell pregnant to OM, he dumps her, then she tries to return to you to look after her (and pretends you are the father).

Do you want that?

She also needs to be an honest open book without anger.

Seriously, you showed her that she is still actively attempting to deceive and lie to you.

And she gets angry?

What about sorry and begging forgiveness?

She is still in the A.

She needs consequences. Move her out for a while.

PR

[This message edited by PhoenixReborn at 5:06 PM, June 10th (Friday)]

I know for sure she's not pregnant (she had her period a week ago).

I told her on D-Day I was demanding an STD test and she said she had one (she had just recently been to the OBGYN)

So, no worries there.

She is manipulating you. WIth lies. With sex. And the best manipulation of all -- telling you things you want to hear. (I want "us." I want our family. It's all over with the OMs...)

IMO? I was married to one of these disordered serial cheating nut jobs. Now I'm not. See my tag line. I moved on and I'm so much happier.

You are living in chaos and drama. It's become your NORMAL. It's not normal.

You've been smart and you've been strong, but you seem to lack the ability to seal the deal and divorce this woman. I know how it affects the kids is holding you back, but if your WW is mentally ill and she does anything to neglect those kids, you have grounds for full custody. I say this a lot here, and I've lived it -- all it takes is ONE sane, consistent loving parent. And you're it. Living in a shitty apartment is WAY better than growing up in a home where this dysfunction reigns. Where mommy treats daddy like shit, lies and cheats and creates chaos, then there is a honeymoon period, and everyone walks on eggshells until she fucks up into a self destructive spiral again. Rinse. Repeat.

You don't want your children modeling this shit and being you in 20 years.

The only way your WW is going to get better (if she can, and honestly I think she is disordered and you shouldn't place your bets on her), is if she feels the full brunt of consequences. Her marriage ends, she lives in said shitty apartment, she is disgraced. HER pain (not yours, not the children's) could propel her to change. But that would take a LOT of work on her part -- years and years. Transparency, remorse, full honesty, IC, MC. And SHE has to initiate it and want it.

I don't see anything in what you post that demonstrates she is capable or desiring of change. She lies and cheats. She gets caught. She tries to snow you. When that doesn't work she gets angry and blameshift. When that doesn't work she tries to charm you/fuck you. Whatever gets her off the hook.

It stops when you say it stops. You don't have to be a marytr to this marriage. You aren't trapped. Your choices suck, but if you're brave, you can move forward into a new healthier life without this crazy person.

You deserve better than what she is giving you.

[This message edited by squiffle at 8:36 PM, June 10th (Friday)]

Kindly take your head out of the sand

You have/are doing everything wrong---and you just keep on throwing out excuses for allowing her to wipe her feet on you

Was having a great night of sex, so important to you, that you just excused 3 years of horror -----

Your wife has/is lying to you, right now in some way shape or form

If your wife had died (perish that thought as to reality), you would learn to cope without her---so stop giving out excuses for staying in a miserable situation

Do you honestly think this is all just gonna go away---and everything is gonna be copascetic---cuz believe me its not.

You need to end this, with this woman, and move on---she is just gonna continue to force you into a life of misery---but then again its your life, and your choice!!!!!

I told her on D-Day I was demanding an STD test and she said she had one (she had just recently been to the OBGYN)

And your grounds for taking this at face value are...what, exactly?

Bless you, squiffle.

You've hit the nail on the head in so many ways - especially this part:

You've been smart and you've been strong, but you seem to lack the ability to seal the deal and divorce this woman. I know how it affects the kids is holding you back, but if your WW is mentally ill and she does anything to neglect those kids, you have grounds for full custody. I say this a lot here, and I've lived it -- all it takes is ONE sane, consistent loving parent. And you're it. Living in a shitty apartment is WAY better than growing up in a home where this dysfunction reigns. Where mommy treats daddy like shit, lies and cheats and creates chaos, then there is a honeymoon period, and everyone walks on eggshells until she fucks up into a self destructive spiral again. Rinse. Repeat.

Though I will say, the kids have NO idea that we are having trouble. The eight year old is very perceptive, but the only thing he's done is tell me "Mommy's crying" and asked me why she's sad.

Is this too forgone for counseling? Am I just rationalizing again?

jnj - just can't stop thinking about the kids. I know...

silencio - good point, and one I thought about as I was typing it out today.

She told me tonight that she called the landlord and she's willing to hold it for my WW, but needs to know by the end of this weekend.

So, yeah. I've got some thinking to do...

Again, I can't thank ya'll enough fo all the responses - both the loving support and the "WTF???" 2x4s. Ya'll rock!

[This message edited by Cannon at 10:07 PM, June 10th (Friday)]

Your wife was demonizing you, as justification for conducting her A's

Is she on meds for her manic-depressive state

If she is not on meds---then with proper meds---things might yet workout---if she is taking her meds faithfully---I fear you are in for miserable future with her---and you just need to end this

SHE KEEPS TRYING TO HANG ONTO YOU---AS SHE DOESN'T WANNA FACE THE WORLD AS A DIVORCEE

Cannon-

Dont be to hard on yourself. It is so difficult when you have been with someone for awhile, love the person and then they betray you.

So dont belittle yourself for a weak moment, I have had those too. We are in the R phase and I have had to look long and hard at why I have a difficult time saying no to sex.

Iam very hesitant to promise WH anything, for me it is day to day.

I have decided not to make any sudden moves for six months and we will see what transpires in that time.

I have been working the 180, and somehow WH senses something different and he is doing so much more for the marriage.

Just hang in there and if you make a decision stick to it and be firm- it gives them time to really think about what they have done and you freedom in a sense.

1) unless I am mistaken, she can have a light period and still be pregnant

2) tell her you are going to call the ob/gyn office to get the form for her to authorize them to give you the STD test results

3) tell the landlord you want to renew the lease ... you can always cancel later with some penalty.

4) get the keylogger back in place and don't tell her.

.

.

I doubt OM2 is going to tell you anything important. You already know she "loves" him and had unprotected sex and that she is ready to lie to your face about it. He might send you their entire email history ... and you could discover they had planned to get married next month ... but I doubt it.

.

.

I hate to be the first to say it (but it will probably be mentioned) ... is there a chance these type of episodes stretch back further into your marriage and you just didn't discover them?

3) tell the landlord you want to renew the lease ... you can always cancel later with some penalty.

This may be a good idea right here. Nice.

I hate to be the first to say it (but it will probably be mentioned) ... is there a chance these type of episodes stretch back further into your marriage and you just didn't discover them?

I really don't think that's the case. Things were fine until out third kid was born and until WW discovered facebook. Facebook and the cell phone have facilitated things to a great degree.

Many of you have asked about her meds. She has to take two - one stabilizer and one anti-depressant. She consistently takes the stabilizer, but goes on and off the anti-depressant. Supposedly she strays when she's off her meds. She just this week changed from abilifi to paxil (she wouldn't take abilifi anymore because she says it makes her sick). So, maybe this is a good step.

[This message edited by Cannon at 7:18 AM, June 11th (Saturday)]

Thank goodness she is not pregnant.

However, if I were you I would tell her to get the doctor to give her a written/printed copy of the STD results from the lab (so you can see them as proof).

She can and will get a copy of the results on request, or at the very least a written statement (signed by the doctor/GP) that she is clean; any other response is a big red flag.

My doctor gives me a print-out of the lab results of my STD tests, one page per disease tested for with technical and non technical medical descriptions/results.

She told me tonight that she called the landlord and she's willing to hold it for my WW, but needs to know by the end of this weekend.

Well, as I said before IMHO:

She needs consequences. Move her out for a while.

Not necessarily permanent, just long enough to see what it will be like alone and D...

ETA - (just saw your post above mine after submitting) I am willing to bet that once she learns you simply renewed the lease will be enough to shock her...

Good luck

PR

[This message edited by PhoenixReborn at 7:45 AM, June 11th (Saturday)]

She needs consequences. Move her out for a while.

Not necessarily permanent, just long enough to see what it will be like alone and D...

Well, I thought that was what our separation last year did...it was only about four months, but she was really, really remorseful then (actually within a couple of week after she moved out)and wanted to be back together as a family so badly. The ironic thing is at that point I was already moving on in my head, so I was the one who was hesitant about letting her back. And now this...

So, I think my plan tonight is this: I will ask out of the blue if I can get her phone code and view her texts and her facebook messages. If she says "no", I'm going to assume she's not going to be forthcoming any longer and she needs to move out. If she says OK, and what I see there is innocuous (and especially if there's not contact with OM#2) then we have something to work with. Sound OK?

I'm also considering contacting her best friend to see what she thinks. This is the friend she goes to the city to see and in who's house she had the PA both (?) times.

I actually value this person's opinion...my WW told me they were fighting a few months ago and it turns out it was because of the first PA between them (she knew about it) and was taking her to task for it. According to my WW, she doesn't know about the more recent PA.

What do ya'll think of these ideas? And I know I say this every post, but I mean it...THANKS so much for the advice and support. It's been invaluable to me this week.

[This message edited by Cannon at 8:28 AM, June 11th (Saturday)]

I'm also considering contacting her best friend to see what she thinks. This is the friend she goes to the city to see and in who's house she had the PA both (?) times.

I actually value this person's opinion...my WW told me they were fighting a few months ago and it turns out it was because of the first PA between them (she knew about it) and was taking her to task for it. According to my WW, she doesn't know about the more recent PA.

IMO Very good idea.

Definitely update the friend on the recent ONS.

If It will help you to bounce off ideas and perspectives from this person then go for it.

PR

you're asserting yourself and you have a plan: Both good things.

I would not share your plan with anyone until it's executed. Don't tell the good friend.

Thanks guys.

I just sent friend a message that basically said, "What do you see from your end"? And asked her to keep it between us for now.

Didn't share my plan for tonight with her.

Good Cannon,

After reading jsatriani2010 post and re-reading yours I do want to clarify that you should not disclose any sensitive information like any plans regarding WW (that you would not want WW to know).

However I would definitely update the friend on WW recent cheating and such, and see if she will help you in relation to that.

ETA - all this is what I personally would do, you ultimately need to decide what you will do and how.

I hope WW passes for you.

PR

[This message edited by PhoenixReborn at 9:11 AM, June 11th (Saturday)]

I don't see how you could do another 10 or 15 years of this so that you could raise the kids to a certain age. If you stay and she continues to lie and cheat you will be a very bitter man.