SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The "our" is hard! I see it as fwh's mess, so he has to clean it up...but if affects our overall household so I can't help but say "our". The OC is on my insurance too, so yea I guess you could say "our".

The state I'm in goes up to 21 if the child still lives with the OW and is 100% dependant--so in other words if the OC wants to just live at home without going to schoo, work, etc. between the ages of 18-21, the OW can petition the courts for that. However, from case law that I have read, it seems to mostly affect divorce cases vs. out-of-wedlock cases. I hope so! We work with a father's rights group that is trying to get it to just completely end at 18 unless there are special circumstances, and it would be on a case-by-case basis.

Use the guidelines to your advantage.

Good luck and you can always PM me...I know how it feels to be in an anti-noncustodial parent state...

[This message edited by IslandWahine at 7:50 PM, February 29th (Wednesday)]

Yes, the child support sucks. Major. Having a COM as well, (though no longer a marriage) that my ex pays child support for to me, I can tell you what the state views as expenses for the child that child support is for. That is food, clothing and shelter (shelter being mortgage/rent, utilities). Most likely if the OW provided those bills, that would be enough to prove it. Actually in our state the NCP pays half of other stuff like camps, sports, medical deductibles) It does get expensive for me for our COM. My ex likes to bitch about those expenses. Where the OC still does suck for me is having the support for my COM reduced to account for the OC's support. That is one way it has never ended. That and the things my COM comes home talking about from time spend with the OC. The good part is, the stuff COM says really doesn't bother me now that exWH and I are not together anymore. It KILLED me when we were together.

On the CS issue, I don't have to prove how the money was spent, but I do keep all receipts that I can that are things paid for for my COM. NOT counting shelter costs, food and clothing, I have over $7,000 in receipts for my COM for 2011. I know if my exWH asked for proof, it would actually make him look bad once I calculated in his portion of the shelter costs which would add another $8K or so. So, just be careful what you ask for. Best not to dwell on an area that is likely to NEVER change, at least in our lifetimes. But...vent away!

[This message edited by debbysbaby at 8:48 PM, February 28th (Tuesday)]

The cOW in our sitch calculated $3000 in monthly expenses on zero income o_O. She was asking for ALL of that for CS! She got less than half awarded (we pay more because of the arrears, she's in for a rude awakening once those are paid off at the end of this year).

As far as her accounting for it, she doesn't have wiggle room after the CS pays ALL of her rent, utilities, some food (she gets food stamps and wic also), etc. I think what pisses me off is that my fwh IS maintaining 2 households since she doesn't work. Its why we know and understand now this was a plot to pay her bills.

The good thing with the new guidelines for our state is that if she ever goes back to work, daycare is deducted from her earnings and she would qualify for state vouchers vs. My fwh paying half. We haven't come across anything as far as activities/etc, but that's NOT in the court order, she would have to try to petition for it. Since my fwh has to pay a % of his performance pay as additional support, that can be argued to cover any additional expenses the cOW comes up with. I personally don't need an accounting of every dollar, but I don't think its fair she isn't paying ANYTHING for this OC when both parents are supposed to be financially responsible. Also, she was a heavy smoker (not sure now) and where we live cigarettes are almost $10 a pack. I hate to think of the OC already living on the poverty line (only because the cOW won't work) and that $ going to fund cOW's habits vs. Going to help him have a better life. she miscalculated the date of when she got CS one time next and bugged the hell out of us for $ for food and diapers!

I do have to agree with debby, you don't want to have to put yourself in a position to fork out more $. I am already dreading remod because we know she most likely still won't be working, we are going to try to have income imputed, she knows it, and she will try to make it up some other way. The judge was already pissed she wasn't working (her claims of not being able to find a job are BS...in our area the economy isn't too bad and there are lots of smaller jobs to at least get her some income).

The other good thing about our state is that our COM did count first, which made the OW's CS less (which enrages her).

Hang in there everyone...

[This message edited by IslandWahine at 8:22 PM, February 29th (Wednesday)]

I find all of this information very interesting. I am wondering what the best way is to find out all the details for the state the support/custody order was filed in. The OW lives with mom and mom provides all childcare. So, she has very little in the way of expenses. OC does seem well taken care of which is wonderful to see. I believe that OW thought FWH would come for her and OC once I found out about the A. (She had already moved when I found out.) I don't think she figured we would try to work it out AND I think she way overestimated his feelings for her. That could be why she is so very nasty now. Also, I am wondering what cOW is an abbreviation for. I know in my situation the OW really was a large, rather slow individual and I always thought of her as somewhat cowlike, even before I knew about the A. Sometimes I have to find something funny in all of this.

I know you are right Debbysbaby- but I was having a venty day. Thanks for the input (and the reality check)

Everyone I am going thru so much pain right now I can't offer any advice. I do have hugs for us all as we go thru this journey.

I will say, do whatever you think is right to protect yourself and your family in this situation. Whatever that works out to be in your circumstances. I invite you to read my story and see how even the best intentions can come back and bite you for years to come. Again there is not right or wrong in this situation and people who have not dealt with it will try and convince you that there is. Please, please protect yourself and make decisions based on what you can live with. It took me a long time to learn that my COM and myself, our family comes first. I do not regret for one moment what I tried to do for the OC and I hope they remember the sacrifices that were made on their behalf. I pray that I gave them a good foundation to grow and be responsible people. I pray that all of us here do not have to endure more pain and that we get to some level of peace. Hugs to you all.

[This message edited by BMC0415 at 4:44 PM, March 4th (Sunday)]

((BMC))

I am so sorry for everything you are going through at the hands of your WH and OW. It enrages me how much you have sacrificed to end up in this situation. You, of all people, do not deserve this.

She had the baby..I posted a while ago about my situation.. A little bit has changed. There are now 2 other possibilities on the father of this baby.. Yesterday I woke up for church and SO was gone. I texted him that not coming home was unacceptable, he texted back he was in the waiting room and try not to be mad.. I didn't say anything nice because we were supposed to do this together.. words cannot even express the amount of pain I felt and the betrayal. I don't doubt for a second he wants her, he thought he could do it alone because he feels alone in this. But Ive been here!! We have been a partnership and this happened. We are not together because the lies and sneakiness make me hesitant to continue a relationship. How will it be when we share custody, will he lie about seeing him with her.. Today he is taking a paternity test to see if it's his.. I'm so unsure if it looks like him.. I don't know what to do or how to feel..

Edited to add.. Last night after letting him stay at our house but to sleep on the bed he came home around 8pm and I asked where he had been. He went to see them at the hospital for the 3rd time since Sunday! That was it, my breaking point.. I never deserved this.. I felt like he was choosing them over me and our daughter.. it is so painful to feel this and I'm so angry.. I think about them in the room him holding their "supposed" baby and her thinking he'll be with her and they can be a happy family. I hate what he's done, I hate them both for doing this to me and my daughter.. I'm just in a really bad place right now.. He came home to sleep on the couch sometime last night after I kicked him out he probably went to see her and the baby again.. wouldn't surprise me. I told him he can be with what he chose and he's not sleeping on my couch again.. My heart is shattered.

[This message edited by sage1000 at 12:16 PM, March 6th (Tuesday)]

((Sage)) I am so sorry for your pain. Please protect yourself and your dd. Go apply for CS if have not yet. If the DNA comes back that this is his, she will get more of a cut of CS than your child if she files first. It takes about 6 weeks for DNA tests to come back, use that time to be proactive and protect your dd rights.

I am so sorry that you are going thru this, but you know you are seeing a preview of what your future would be like if this is indeed an OC situation that your are dealing with. Hugs to you.

Just wanted to pop in and say hi everyone, and I'm still lurking around here periodically :(

Sad to see so many new people on here!!!

Wishing for all of you on here to find the wisdom you need to help you through this tragic time, and the uncertainity the future brings..

My situation was changed from the "SO CALLED NORM" with the OW/OC but it really doesn't make the hurt any less, or the thoughts of what I went through any less :( Sorry for the bleak outcome.

Just wanted to let you know you all are still in my prayers every night

(((sage))) I'm so sorry he is doing this to you and your family right now. You are right to set up boundaries though. That's one of the first steps in healing yourself.

(((dreamer))) It's good to hear from you. I hope all is well for you. You know you are always welcome here!

And (((BMC)))--and she is right. Make sure you file for CS first, because many states that's how it operates.

Well things have gotten a little better, we're still not together and he is sleeping on the couch. We are talking, he is telling me at all times where he is and he's stopped crying so much. I have given him a list of things that would happen if we were to try and make this family work and re build from where we are. The test will only take 3-5 business days so the results will be here either tomorrow or monday/ tuesday.. I am not filing for child support at this point, I understand that first come first serve but that's not important for me I am financially stable enough to do it alone, although I know he'd never turn his back to our daughter. The pain is going away a little more each day and I have become so much stronger because of this. It's so easy to say this happened for a reason because I truly feel it did and I trust in the outcome. I am holding my ground and will never get less than I deserve ever again. Even though I usually lurk everyones stories have really built me into this much stronger person.

((sage))) sorry for any typos I'm on my cell phone about to go to sleep.

Everyone's stories helped me get thru the darkest of times. I honestly don't know how things would've ended up or how I would've gotten thru this all had I not found strength from everyone else here. It showed me and taught me everything I needed to know to make R work and what to do if it doesn't...I am incredibly thankful for the love everyone shows here. No matter what you decide, we all respect that your decision is your decision. You are always safe here.

I am trying to get some general information. Which states are considered "friendly" regarding CS etc. with people in our situation? We have a another court date in a few months and I want to be prepared. FWH tried mediation twice and the lawyers gave up because OW was so unreasonable. I want the judge to understand we have three other children, one still in college, one grown, but one at home with special needs. I found a great school to send him to but becuase of the $ we pay to OW and OC he can't go to the school. We are also having some pretty significant financial hardships. Would it help if I go to with FWH to court? Would the judge even care or talk to me? I am trying to search online but not having luck. I really appreciate the support here as well as the honesty. I want to know what I am up against as I move forward. Would love to hear some positive stories as well. I have found one statement that I read here gave me great strength. It was that my COM and my marriage are as important as OC if not more so in my opinion. OW decided to bring OC into this world. He is loved and well taken care of. I am stilll healing and my son at home desparately needs stability. Thank you all.

Hello ray sorry I wasn't here earlier, I was watching a movie. I usually try to get on here in the early evening.

The whole family court system is SO state-specific. In other words, the laws/regulations/guidelines vary so much from state to state it's very difficult to really compare. I can say the WORST states are CA, NY, NJ, and MA. I think if your lawyer really reminds the courts not only of your fwh's obligation to your COM, but the fact that your special needs child is unable to attend the school he needs because of the CS, that may help. It may not because a judge can and will totally block the COM out and only focus on the OC as the only child in need (terrible, I know). It sometimes boils down to the judge. We got one that is incredibly pro-mother it's blatantly obvious in the courtroom. The OW acted like a complete gold-digging idiot and he did nothing to really stop her or encourage her to get off of her lazy ass to provide better for the OC. He was only more than willing to throw the book at my fwh, with a few little things thrown in to make him not really look as biased as we know he is. We went back and researched some of his public cases (good to do beforehand if you can) and eek, very pro-custodial parent.

I don't think courts are prepared for these types of cases--the whole OC thing, although they are more common than we think. THey are treated as child born out of wedlock cases, which they are, but since the father is already married with COM who also depend on him, the courts can't really leave them out of the equation them...although they do. Again, we got lucky that the courts recognized our COM first and based the OC's order AFTER our COM were taken into consideration. However the award was still so high that it has had a significant impact on our family--plus the fact that the OW doesn't work and isn't forced to work OR had income imputed on her.

I wish I had the chance to go to court with my fwh. If anything, to remind the judge that my fwh DID have a family out there that also depended on him. But my youngest was only a couple months old and not yet ready to be left with a sitter, plus I am breastfeeding and there's no way I would've made it all day without either nursing or pumping (I had major overproduction with both of my children). THen when he had to go to court later, I had zero time off because I used it all for my maternity leave, we couldn't afford for me to miss a day of work. The time after that? It was my older COM's first day of school and I was damned if both my fwh and I missed it. It's like the gods intervened and stopped me, which may have been a good thing because I was heated and would've displayed the most intense passive/aggressiveness I had in my arsenal! The next time he has to go to court though I WILL BE THERE, and lucky enough it's been long enough that my rage has died down.

I would say get a lawyer that is experienced in father's rights--DEFINITELY go in with a lawyer. To really get everything set up and going you really want someone who knows the law as much as possible, and a father's rights lawyer knows the guidelines and how they can best help the father. The first time around we did NOT, and we are paying dearly for it. Our lawyer now is really really good though. If you can find a lawyer who has done cases like this before, even better.

And although others may disagree or make you feel bad about it...don't feel bad about making YOUR family first if that is what is in your heart and the decision you want to make. I have had to learn to detach myself from the whole OW/OC/FWH triangle of shit and realize the only important people in my life are my fwh and my own children. I refuse to allow anyone else to take up free rent in my head and cause me so much grief. Perhaps if we were dealing with someone reasonable things could be different or better for the OC, but we are not.

Remember, if the OW can't have your husband, she will most certainly try to have his pocketbook to the full extent. They know to really hurt you and hit you, it's the best place to do it. In our case, the OC is treated ok (at least we hope so) because he is the meal ticket so of course he has to be ok. TRUST me when I say that the OW is NOT looking out for your COM, in fact they would rather your COM be out of the way when it comes to $$$ because it gives them a bigger piece of the pie and makes them feel more "relevant". So YOU have to look out for your COM and put them first.

(((rayofhope))) You will find some good stories here. There are lots of families who do have C with the OC and found a way to make it work, while having safe boundaries with the OW. There are also lots that are also NC with the OC for various reasons that are what's best for the families, and many times the OC too believe it or not. I wouldn't say there are "happy" endings, more like "do-able".

First CS hearing was yesterday, and honestly, it could have been worse. The magistrate (sp?) seemed reasonable and explained the calculations she was making, and the order was for an amount that we anticipated (I have to research everything, so I had already looked up the standard child support tables for our state)

Health Insurance remains an unresolved issue- OW has insurance on herself but did not add her child, fWH has his insurance through my work, and my employer noted that the child could be added to my policy if we claimed her on our taxes (to show that we have a financial obligation) but the magistrate was reluctant to put the OC on a "stepparent" policy. I wish it could have all been resolved in one hearing, because now I still feel like I am waiting for the other shoe to drop and for financial devistation to follow...

The part of the hearing that was the most difficult for me was seeing the OW. I did not know what she looked like, and now I have a face and body type to add to the mind movies that came flooding back. It does not help that I am pregnant now, and I am not too fond of how my body looks while pregnant- which resulted in me crying in the middle of the night when the baby woke me up to go to the bathroom. fWH woke up and held me while I cried, answered my questions, and tried to assure me that he loves me and is attracted to ME and not her- but it is little consolation in the middle of the night.

In the end, I am glad I went. I have decided that there will be no more meetings between the two of them that do not involve me, while the conception of the OC was not my choice, anything that happens from here on out affects my family, so I intend to be there. Thanks to SI and the people I have met here for the support from afar!

Hi Island,

Thank you so much for the support and information. I am so glad I found this place. I hadn't found much info. on this situation. I think one of the hardest issues is I feel so torn. Half of me really feels C is fine and important for OC if done correctly. The other half doesn't want C at all. A huge issue is traveling and being "alone" in another state where she is. Also, there is no way around the fact that OC is a trigger. I do not hate this child. He and I are really very alike in that we had no choice in this horrible thing happening to us. But, he still is a trigger. His existence shakes my life and makes my future uncertain. He takes away from my family financially and emotionally. I don't trust his mother. OW had no problem seducing my husband because she decided she wanted him and wanted him to take care of her. I do think as I move forward that I am going to set up very rigid guidelines for C, money spent, etc. with FWH. Maybe we should do this during a MC session. I also liked what the last poster said about being at the hearing. I know it will be hard but that way I know for certain what went on. I will know what FWH said, didn't say, how he acted etc. I want zero doubts as I move forward. I continue to be amazed at the level of pain there is. I am 20 months out from finding out about the A. I read that this is more devastating emotionally than having your spouse die. I can't say for sure, but it feels that way. This is harder than when I had a still born baby. I know that almost sounds impossible. In trying to explain the depths of my pain to FWH I said it was worse than the loss of our son. He asked how that was possible. I said it was because the loss of our son was God's will, no ones fault. His A and the pain from that was done by his choice. He chose to inflict that pain on me. I think perhaps that put things into perspective for him. I have another question. I didn't know where to post it. Has anyone else had their friends kind of fade out of their life? My friends were there for about 2 weeks and then gradually disappeared. I have found out that most of them either knew about the A or suspected it. Not one of them mentioned it to me. So, I am wondering if this has happened to anyone else. Also, I think that if they were my friends they should have told me. THey said that they didn't think it was their business. What do people think?

New here. So glad to have found this site, but wishing I didn't need it.

My H and I have been married for 8 years, together since we were 15. We've had our ups and downs, but until the last year I never had any reason to suspect anything was horribly wrong.

I found out a week and a half ago that H has been having an A for over a year with a coworker. I confronted him with evidence and he admitted to everything. We decided to try and work things out (we have a daughter, not quite 2 yrs old). He broke off contact with OW, except for the limited work-related contact they have to have. I've been struggling with knowing they are in the same building everyday. But I felt a glimmer of hope that we could repair our marriage.

2 days after he told her it was over, she told him she was pregnant. I was devastated all over again.

We both (so he says) still want to try and repair our relationship, but I'm so sad about this latest revelation. I was so sure there was hope before this. Now I'm not sure what to do. At this point I think I've compartmentalized my feelings about everything. I can't even bring myself to think about a possible baby. Trying to focus on our relationship for now, and what we need to do to decide if we can make it back. But also feeling conflicted over that - am I just avoiding it because it's too hard to deal with?

Part of me wants to move away, disappear so we don't have to have any contact with her. Part of me wants to ask him to not have anything to do with child (assuming its true), and then I think I couldn't possibly live with myself if he abandoned a child.

How do you recover from this?

((BrokenHeart39)) I know exactly how you feel. You will feel so many emotions until the day comes. You will feel you know what you want, and feel sure it's the way it has to be and then you flip and feel differently. It will happen a lot before the birth. I was so torn, I wanted so badly for him to break all contact and never have contact with child. In my heart I couldn't bear to do that to the child or him. Could I never see a child of mine and be able to live with that? Making ALL decisions together is the best advice, hearing his true feelings and him hearing your feelings helps decide your paths. I'm sorry you are going through this I feel like I've just been in your shoes..

UPDATE: ALOT has happened, He is the father. I knew he was.. he has visited him once more and I am okay with that but he knows that there will be no more contact without me and without filing for partial/joint custody. I'm trying to figure out how he cannot contact OW without me being there. We are buying a house phone for her to call and I am hoping AT&T will block her # on his phone. I also get to see his bill each month. I trust him for the most part but still feel like I have to keep my guard up til he proves to me I can fully trust him. I'm in a really good place, he is not. I am surprisingly acceptable to OC being a part of our lives, I don't feel the feelings that I thought I would towards him. SO is feeling guilty, angry at what he's done to us and feels like no one is there to support him and the OC other than myself. This is a new journey we are walking together on and I finally feel at peace. Finally after a year I feel like we are not on any unsure grounds. It feels soo good to have it all happen and have a plan finally.