SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Traildad. . . .

Listen to Buffalo. He always, and I mean always, has good perspectives on things.

Personally, the scenario you described with your wife announcing that she broke off everything with her cousin seems a very convenient way to take everything underground.

Until she starts showing at least a smidgen of remorse be extremely suspicious of anything she says or does.

"break" your internet service. Ours goes out all the time, amazing how it happened so much when he was in the fog.

Question.

Is an A with your cousin, how should I put this, "legal", the big "I"?

I mean they are blood realtives after all.

This has been going on since August 2011. She had "sexual contact" but not "intercourse" - most of us call this "having sex" regardless of whether there was intercourse. This is cheating.

You are in the betrayed spouse fog. You have handled yourself OK so far, which is to say you have not done anything to make your situation worse, but you haven't done anything to make it much better either. You have been allowing this a long time. You can let it go as long as you want. You know she plans to see him in June, so you must bust it up before then.

In my opinion, IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE THE LONGER YOU WAIT. She gets in deeper with him IN HER MIND every day she continues contact. The longer she is in this state, the harder it will be to break her out of it.

In one way you are lucky it is her cousin. It will make it tougher for her to openly be with him, regardless of whether or no she stays married to you. She knows this. What she is hoping for is to stay married to you, to let you put up with it, and for her to be able to have him emotionally and occasionally sexually while it is kept secret and tolerated by you.

The soonner you confront her, the better. See a lawyer first about custody issues. Be ready to expose to her parents, but do not tell her you may do this. Confront her tell her all contact must end now and forever or you will file for divorce. Give her a very short time to decide - 15 minutes is not unrealistic. Do not engage her in an argument. She had "sexual contact" with him. They are not "just cousins" and not "just friends."

She also must give you access to all her communication devices and accounts.

You have been such a doormat to her for so long (see your prior post about her expecting you to call other man to smooth it out between them) that she will reject your ultimatum. She will fully expect you to back down. You always have. She will not comply with your no contact requirement until you file for divorce.

So, when she doesn't agree, you must file. At that point, you also should tell her parents. Do not give her any advance warning that this will happen, only that you will file for divorce.

Her parents know you well enough. They know her. They saw how she acted on Easter. You have text records. They will believe you. You have enough evidence already.

After you file, she probably will cave to your conditions, but she will test you constantly, like a child testing her parents.

After she caves, you should have her write a "no contact" letter to her cousin stating how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior and how terrible she feels for putting her husband, marriage, and family at risk. She should include that if he tries to contact her again, she will file harassment charges against him. She must tell you any time he tries to contact her. You keep the divorce process going until you are sure she is back with you. You will know this when you get the crying, blubbering, snot-dripping apology and she no longer meets your conditions only begrudgingly, but willingly.

It is possible that you will get divorced. There is no guarantee. But at least you will end this long limbo of pain that you have been going through and you can carry yourself with dignity and self-respect.

The only thing I would add to Jonathan E. excellent post is. . . .

the cousin's parents -- her uncle and aunt -- need to be told of the affair too.

That would serve the same purpose as telling the cousin's spouse, which you can't since he's not married.

Traildad,

Sorry to beat the apparently dead horse, but please rethink exposing and blowing up this affair. You know you have to do it, but the fear of doing it is obviously weighing heavily on you. It is easy for me to tell you what to do, because I am not in your shoes - now - but I've been pretty close.

There are three things to keep in mind as you fight the fear of exposure

1. She knows you know and she is still flaunting it. She is going to go DEEP underground with it. And she doesn't care a damned bit what it does to you or her kids. She is that far gone (many waywards do this)

2. She knows she has you by the balls and you will do nothing but wait it out. So she will keep killing you - bit by bit - until you lose it. And then she will pounce - blame you for everything and then extort you for everything she can on her way out the door. You think that is not possible, but it has played out with too many waywards. Ask Stronger08, or just cruise by ICR and visit the thread for betrayed men.

3. Exposure is manageable. You can control the narrative of exposure. You have tons of evidence in the texts. If you spend a little time, you can recover them from the iphone. You can ask your MIL to follow a script to minimize damage to the kids.

But expose you must. If you do not, you will forever have to endure this hell she has created. And believe me, when you get so broken you have no choice but to lash out, you will wish you would have taken action now instead of later.

Strength to you brother to do what you know you have to do.

Traildad,

Is it possible she has seen your posts here? I find it curious that she came to you and announced NC and then wnet right back at it.

Thank you all, these are some seriously helpful posts, literally getting me through all of this. You guys are all I have at this point, I am forever grateful.

We just returned from dinner at her parents house. I feel I am pulling the 180 pretty good, being friendly, laughing, playing, engaged with everyone. She was SO COLD toward me, rolled her eyes anytime I spoke to her. It had to be obvious to her mother what she was doing. Anyway, she left and went to the bathroom for like 20 minutes (to text him I presume, or avoid me) and her mom noticed and started to comment that she went to the bathroom to check FB, I SO BADLY wanted to tell her at that moment. The only thing that stopped me was that it is Easter and I really didn't want to ruin the holiday for everyone.

As for "interrupting" their communication, the only option would be to disable her phone somehow. She has pass locked her phone, and even when she is in the shower she puts it right in the windowsill next to the shower, impossible to get at it without her knowing. She literally NEVER lets that thing out of her reach. Right next to the bed, always in her pocket, etc. It would be tough to even get close enough to spill a drink on it That is her entire source of communications, they don't e-mail or anything like that, and if they do, it is on the phone, so I can't disable to internet.

As for her seeing these posts, I keep thinking she might stumble across them, Wouldn't take long when searching for A and cousin in the same search. But I honestly don't think she has, this is not the first time she has said NC (the other times were when I was in my pleading idiot stage). The funny thing is, she says NC, then breaks it without even going UG, she just goes right back to texting him right in front of me.

I know I have to take action to end this A. My first step will be understanding my legal options, I am calling lawyers first thing tomorrow. I need to know if I need more evidence, etc. before I blow everything up.

One final question - I have already said "we cannot begin to fix this marriage until there are only 2 of us in it". This was how the MC instructed me to do it. Is it possible she does not interpret this to mean NC? Do I need to specifically state "I am willing to work toward fixing the problems in our marriage, but we cannot begin that process until you cut all contact with OM and you agree to see a counselor"? i have thought of stating this a few times over the last few days and never did. Not as an ultimatum, but as an intermediate step to reiterate that we are not moving forward without these things? Should I say something like this now, or wait until I get everything lined up for an ultimatum, etc.???

The ball is in her court. You keep the 180 and go see the lawyer. When and if she asks what she has to do you should have a list of requirements.

I'd not take anything else but unconditional surrender. I didn't know about 180 at the time (you can read my profile) but I did give her an ultimatum. I wouldn't stay if she didn't comply. But I didn't have kids at the time so YMMV.

That said I wouldn't stay if my FWW did that again. I'm too old for this shit.

There's an occasional blogger 'Bigger' who usually manages to say very succinctly (in JFO) what would take me weeks to write (and even then I wouldn't get it right). While the site doesn't have a search function could I suggest a trawl back would be worth your while and help your thinking about your plan, words etc.

Start here http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=448666&AP=21&HL=32317

[This message edited by doctor49 at 12:39 AM, April 9th (Monday)]

trail,

I'm so sorry for being away for so long from this. The GS's b-day and subsequent holiday presented some issues for me in my own shitty mess that had to be addressed. F*ck! I hate holidays anymore!

Anyway, enough of my problems, lets get back to yours. You received some great advice from the SI tribe the last few days. I'm so glad you've continued to post and get that feedback.

So, where do you go from here. I know I sound like a broken record but I'll keep saying it again & again: 180, 180, 180, 180 Keep reading it so it's burned into your memory. Most of ALL, Keep running it! DO NOT QUIT NOW!!

It's working dude! Can you see it yet. OK, just in case you can't, lets look at what's happened since you started to run it because it's effect has already been HUGE!

1. She already tried to get you to stop 180 by offering you a bullshit NC. BTW, great job in not falling for it!

2. She's already tried out the sex tool block, also intended to get you to stop 180. Remember, the 180 makes you look strong. Strong = attractive.

3. She wavered, if only for a little while, on her abuse to you. OK, now this and gently...she went RIGHT back at the abuse when she sensed weakness and/or interest from you didn't she? Think about it! 180, 180 180! Don't lose your focus.

Can you see what's happening here man? The 180 is working. It's doing exactly what it's intended to do. Not to get her to END her A, Not to get her to do anything YOU want her to do. What it IS doing is allowing you to DETACH, and begin thinking about YOU and YOUR life with or without her bullshit! That is what the 180 is about, and what you're after here. No more, no less. BTW, you're doing an excellent job with it so far. I'm proud you you man.

So lets talk about some of the other stuff that happened the last two days:

You need to stop worrying/obsessing about things that to be honest, are completely irrelevant to what you want to accomplish here.

1. She's having an A with her cousin.

Sorry, but irrelevant. It doesn't matter in the broad scope of things if she's having the A with her cousin, a co worker, your minister, or a freaking monkey. Any one of those is still #3 in your M and too many. You can't control who she picks to screw around with, so every other thing BESIDES the fact that she IS having an A, is just semantics.

2. I'm worried about how my kids will react if they find out it's with her her cousin.

Sorry, but irrelevant again. Your kids aren't going to care if the A was with the monkey or her cousin. Kids are extremely resilient. And don't sell them sort on perception or intelligence either. You can't let this stop you from doing what you have to do here. Gently again...are you sure you're not transferring your own feelings about the cousin thing to your kids?

3. I'm worried about her mother and that WW will be worse off if she knows.

OK, not so gently this time...Seriously Dude!! You've just been put through months of absolute living HELL!! Please stop the crazy train here. Look, it sounds like you're a great guy, and you care deeply for people, but you HAVE to start thinking of yourself for once or you're never going to be able to fully detach, and if needs be, extract from this toxic situation. I'm mean come on, who's next on your worry list, the milkman, her hair dresser?? Just please stop beating yourself up over other people here. Remember, YOU DID NOT CAUSE THIS, SHE DID!

About Exposure: OK, I guess I'm of a little different mindset here. I didn't push the exposure issue with you because you mentioned in earlier posts that you don't have concrete evidence yet. IMO, it's suicide to expose anything until you do because your left wide open to your WW's crazy warped versions of what is happening. If this should happen and she gets a proverbial leg up so to speak, you and your kids are then in a very untenable position. Please be careful and really think about this prior to acting. Once the cat's out of the bag without evidence for backup, you can't put it back in again! So here's some tips on gathering the evidence you need BEFORE you expose her.

First, go to Best Buy, Radio Shack or some other electronics store and buy two (threes better) VAR's (Voice Activated Recorders). Be sure to get ones with a long recording & battery life. Place (hide) these in the places she talks to you about him (and to him if she does more than text).

Second, consider buying smart phone tracking software and putting it on her phone. PM me if you need some suggestions on this. Software of this type has improved light years from where it was a couple years ago. It will record every text and voice convo in minute detail so you can access it from your computer in private. All this data can, and should, be saved as evidence.

Third, after you have these in place and gathered significant evidence, and ONLY if she hasn't gone NC, THEN begin to expose to whomever you want and feel comfortable to.

Last but not least. SI is a great place to get support and advice. Never forget that. However, please keep in mind that this is YOUR LIFE and YOUR M. You ultimately have to live it and live with it. Advice is great and can be extremely useful, as long as you understand that it's just that, advice...and not gospel. IMHO, only use advice when, and if, it fits your unique situation and comfort levels.

Side bro hugs trial {{{{{ Hang in there, stay strong and keep doing the 180! You're gonna make it though this!!

[This message edited by PanicAttack53 at 3:23 AM, April 9th (Monday)]

i have thought of stating this a few times over the last few days and never did. Not as an ultimatum, but as an intermediate step to reiterate that we are not moving forward without these things? Should I say something like this now, or wait until I get everything lined up for an ultimatum, etc.???

Sorry, didn't see this until just now. IMO, No! Don't say any more than you've said already. Remember the 180. Your goal is to detach and to speak and act from a perception of indifference and strength. By doing any more, you're initiating conversation and chasing her and the issue. Let the 180 do it's job. The more you do it right, the more you'll know when it's the right time to engage her. Spend your time now on doing what's right for you and your kids. Gather evidence, schedule that meeting with a lawyer and most of all breathe, eat, sleep and exercise.

You posted:

I know I have to take action to end this A. My first step will be understanding my legal options, I am calling lawyers first thing tomorrow. I need to know if I need more evidence, etc. before I blow everything up.

One final question - I have already said "we cannot begin to fix this marriage until there are only 2 of us in it". This was how the MC instructed me to do it. Is it possible she does not interpret this to mean NC? Do I need to specifically state "I am willing to work toward fixing the problems in our marriage, but we cannot begin that process until you cut all contact with OM and you agree to see a counselor"? i have thought of stating this a few times over the last few days and never did. Not as an ultimatum, but as an intermediate step to reiterate that we are not moving forward without these things? Should I say something like this now, or wait until I get everything lined up for an ultimatum, etc.???

sammy,

That would have been a better thing to say, but at this point, hold off. Forget about "intermediate steps" at this point. YOu should be confronting her within the next 1-3 days. See a lawyer about the custody issues. It shouldn't take long to see a lawyer.

After you see the lawyer, you should confront her and give her the ultimatum - no contact with the cousin now and forever or I will file for divorce.

After she refuses your ultimatum, she may take the phone out and begin texting right in front of you. She may use her tactic of agreeing to NC then texting him right in front of you 10 minutes later. If she does not agree or does agree and then breaks her agreement, you expose.

When she rejects the ultimatum, she may ask you to leave the house and stay somewhere else, to give her "space" to figure it out. Do not leave your own house when you've done nothing wrong. Let her leave if she wants. Tell her if she wants her cousin over you, she should go live with her cousin.

Don't drag this out or overthink this. See the lawyer, then confront, don't make any excuses for delaying any further, if she refuses to comply, be ready to expose and file.

Start preparing yourself for exposure now, rehearse in your mind who you will call first and what you will say and what evidence you will mention. Tell them she has admitted "sexual contact" to you and you have thousands of text messages, mention that's what she was doing on Easter, not Facebook.

There's no reason to let this situation go on any further, there's no point in gathering more evidence, you have enough already.

Your natural tendency is to put it off and delay the confrontation and exposure, to take "intermediate" steps, and come up with a reason why you should wait one more day, the time's not right, you want to get more evidence, give her one more day to stop on her own, etc.

I guarantee you, you will feel 100 percent better after you have confronted and stood up for yourself and taken that first big step to take back your marriage and your life.

[This message edited by Jonathan_E. at 5:28 AM, April 9th (Monday)]

There's no reason to let this situation go on any further, there's no point in gathering more evidence, you have enough already.

Sorry, but I think this is wrong. He doesn't have enough evidence. All he has at this point is his word that he's seen her text in front of him. He could show the phone logs but what does that prove? Nothing IMO. Without hard evidence showing real text messages, she could blow him up in any number of ways as it's his word against hers. She's already proved she's a little whacked (sorry trial) so who knows what shes capable of. This poor guy has already been through the wringer and also has young children to think of here. Let's not make it any harder on him by advising him to knee jerk on exposure before he has all his ducks in a row. JMO.

Use the VAR when you confront her. This will serve two important purposes. One is that it will protect you if things get crazy and wild accusations fly. The second is that you will undoubtedly get the proof you need when she replies to you with her craziness. Protect yourself from this insanity.

So I consulted with a lawyer and there is really no need for me to pursue proof of the A, it has zero bearing on the D proceedings in my state. Assets and alimony are decided strictly by math, and child custody is decided by where the children are "better off" with questions like who buys the groceries, who gets breakfast for the kids, etc. Only things like drug use would be considered.

In a way this is a relief, now I can focus my attention on 180 (myself) and deciding when/how to put an end to this A (or just continue 180 for a little while).

Trail,

I'm glad that the lawyer consultation went well and that it gave you some relief. Take that relief, and try to get a good night's sleep, and take care of yourself.

Hang in there.

Have her phone turned off.

In a way this is a relief, now I can focus my attention on 180 (myself) and deciding when/how to put an end to this A (or just continue 180 for a little while).

Trail....

I know some have been telling you to "wait" till you have "proof".....not sure what kind of "proof" you need......you know shes in a relationship with another man - texting, lingere, trips etc....hell, bro...her actions alone are screaming shes involved with another man...8X10 glossies wont tell you anything that you dont already know....and im sorry.....yep...it blows.

I advise you to "draw that line in the dirt"...like Travis at the Alamo....let your wife know what is acceptable and what is NOT!!! Openly dating another man is deffinately a huge no-no.....cousin or not..is irrelevant...

I think you need to do everything you can to get this A over....you have a marriage with 3 people in it...and thats one too many..... the best way out of a "tug-of-war" it to just "let go"....dont play...

Ya have 2 choices...tolerate having a cheating wife...or not. You cannot control her actions...however...you can control your reacions to her adverse behavior....you are being disrespected and so is your marriage...

What i am saying is you can set your limitations on what you will tolerate....your wife visiting this OM with new lingere should be a deal breaker - the texting..also not good...and doing it in front of you, well....shes rubbin' your nose in it.

Me?....i didnt need photos...my FWWs cell phone alone told me what was going on....and i confronted. I set my limitations....the catch? There is always a catch.....the catch is it was "attorney time"....i "lawyered up"....never "shared" a wife before...not about to start that shit either. Ill share alot of things, bro....alot that i wont share - my boat, my harley, my horse...or my wife....KWIM?

The fact that i filed for divorce was a deciding factor in the FWW gettin' her cheatin' ass out of her fog....yes, she was in a fog. I feel that what your W is doing is NOT an exit affair...its an affair for "shits and giggles"...its an ego stroking behavior...based in lies and bullshit. She is getting a "high" from the attention of this OM...think...a junkie on crack. Its a quick fix feel good...its all a fantasy...unicorns, rainbows and its an escape from reality.....

Shes a cake eater....she wants the excitement and distractions of an affair....and she wants you for a backup plan...incase the fantasy crashes....its time for you to turn off that oven...and take away that fork....

I felt that i needed to get my FWWs affair over as soon as possible....the longer the A...the deeper the emotional attachment between the affair partners...and the harder is is to get the damn thing over....understand??

Alot of IC/MC recommend that the BS allow the A do die a natural death....most are over in a few months...BUT some last for years...or longer....i didnt like those odds....so i became proactive ...and did everything i could to end the affair....the first step is "exposure"..most affairs will die with exposure....like mushrooms, they thrive if kept in the dark and fed bullshit....like mushrooms - they die if brought out into the light....

The second thing i did was to set my limitations and conveyed them to the cheatin wife.....this removes the fantasy factor...it throws the affair into reality.....divorce papers are a huge reality check...

BUT....

You gotta be able to "back it up"....the catch - i was lookin' at a divorce....considering the "other option" was sharing the wife...divorce seemed like the "better" answer....sharing her was NOT an option....

No...i didnt want a divorce...wanted "sloppy seconds" even less...sorry...maybe TMI...

This is where the 180 process comes into play...the 180 is NOT a secret plan to "win her back"....it is a process to allow you to detach from a toxic situation...it allows you to NOT appear co-dependant.....i knew that i was not gonna "nice guy" my FWW back into the marriage....it was time for some alpha male traits....so i let thousands of years of neanderthal influenced genetics kick in....i was not "acting"...i truely felt that i was heading to divorce court....dying inside, bro....hardest thing i ever lived through...(by the way, you will survive this shit - one way or another...you will be OK)...

It took her about 6 weeks to "see the light".....head popped outta her ass....fog lifted....and i was not expecting it either...time for another "catch", too....she did it before my "give a shit" quit working....

This is not a quick process...it takes time....you have gotta disconnect...or at least "appear to do so"....if you allow her to "hump your leg"...she'll damn sure let you....

good luck to you, bro....

Bufffalo

Are you the owner of the cell phone account? IF so, turn off her phone or the very least the data portion of it.

I would expose to the family. Exposure and knowing I was looking at divorce is what pulled WH out of his ass. Had I not exposed to the BH in my case I don't believe he would have actually felt the full effect of what they had done. Realizing that I wasn't some controlling bitch and that most spouses react the way I did made him look at himself differently.

If you want a chance at your M, the A needs to end and I only see that happening at this point if they are made to look at what they are really doing.