SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You seem sort of codependent on ur wife as many BS are.

Yes, I am very aware of this now, in my IC session the therapist immediately noticed this and was able to determine it was caused by growing up in a house where my Dad was a drinker and I learned to base my worth on others actions.

This will be a theme of IC whether we R or not, it is an issue I need to address regardless, and makes doing the 180 especially tough as it is flying in the face of 20 years of my ingrained behaviors. Essentially I am trying to correct a 20 year habit, in a short time period, under tons of stress!

Traildad,

Do not threaten exposure. Just do it. If you threaten, she will intervene and paint you as a crazy jealous husband before you have the chance to expose.

Just do it. Listen to all of the people here. Exposure usually kills the A. Exposure in this case (with a cousin) would IMHO have an even better chance of killing it.

Traildad,

Yes, you have been put into a terrible situation. You have been betrayed by the one who you trusted most. Add the fact that a level of incest is involved, and it is that much more repulsive.

When I first discovered my WW's betrayal, I became almost obsessive with keeping it unknown to the rest of the world. I made her swear not to tell anyone, and I was going to take this disgusting secret with me to my grave.

And although my children came first, the truth is that it was a myriad of reasons that I wanted to keep it under wraps.

Pride, vanity, embarrassment, humiliation.....all of these played a huge role in my not revealing to anyone. And add to the mix that I was painfully codependent and scared to lose what I had, and it added up to me never wanting to peep a word about this till the end of time.

Are any of these the reasons for your silence---besides the children? Because if so, then you are eventually going to let matters worsen.

I am not trying to sound like a jerk here...believe me. I just don't want you going down the wrong path that I did for so long.

You haven't put your foot down about her trip. Why not? And why the f@ck did she book this trip without your consent?

If you stay on this site for awhile(and I hope that you do), you will see that passiveness equates to more problems. While she is in the affair...which she is...all the stops need to be pulled to get results.

Shock and awe. Inflexible demands on your behalf. Absolute intolerance to her inappropriate behavior and boundary issues.

These are the things that will yield results.

Go to any of the forums here, and ask how the outcome resulted when the BS tried to tiptoe and outnice their affair partner. I will bet that you will find nothing more than a few voices to the vast---almost total---majority that will say otherwise. And there is a reason for that--the wayward mind is not operating like yours and mine at this time.

It took me 10 agonizing months to learn that lesson.

I know that you fear what lies ahead for your children, but you have been put in an extremely difficult position. The chances are better than not that this will eventually come out. Maybe not, but you have to accept the fact that YOU DID NOT PUT THEM IN THIS SITUATION.

And although you are the one who is protecting them at this point by your silence, you are allowing your WW and her POS cousin to strengthen their bond daily. That sucks. It sucks because you have been forced into this situation, without really knowing the correct way out.

So all I can do is advise you like I would any betrayed spouse whose partner is still in the affair---BLOW IT UP.

Let her know point blank that you would rather live without her than share her like you currently are. Don't threaten to expose---as a matter of fact, don't EVER make threats---make promises...promises that you will follow through on. Promise her that you will not let this relationship continue. Promise her that you will not be a doormat, and let her continue treating you like she currently is. And promise her that once you regain control of your life, and she no longer means the same to you as she does at this point, you will not stay in an environment like this.

Lawyer up. Separate finances. Learn what you can realistically expect from a divorce in your state. As scary as this shit is right now, the sooner that you face these fears, the better.

Be proactive. No one here is telling you to be irresponsible, but know that every minute that goes by makes this situation that much more difficult. I guarantee it.

Keep us posted. You have to believe us when we say that you can get through this.

You WILL get through this. But it is going to be a tough road ahead...no matter what the outcome. Your WW saw to that.

Good luck.

UPDATE: WW just walked up to me in tears and said she ended it with her cousin. I just nodded and listened, then as she walked away she said "I hate you". Then as she was storming out of the house she said "you won, I hope you're happy" and "I told him this was your doing, not mine, and I told him everything you ever said about him" (referencing statements such as me telling her he is a poor influence on her life and her attitude has degraded since talking to him, etc.) as if I was gonna get mad that he might know I don't think real highly of him.

She still views this as me costing her a good friend, not her ending an EA. This seems like a positive development, but I am not sure what do to from here. Do I acknowledge this as a good step? Do I need to reiterate that NC needs to be 100%? Continue 180 and see what she does from here?

I have decided I need to establish a few "minimum requirements" as referenced on a different amazing post on here. These minimums are NC and MC, given how messed up this situation is, I don't see any way to move forward without her seeing a C. Does that sound like a reasonable minimum req'mt? Also, even if these are met, I still haven't seen remorse. I know I can't demand remorse, but if I don't see it, is it reasonable to not move forward without it?

UPDATE 2: She just called me and said "don't even think about calling him and smoothing this out between he and I, this is between him and I, not you" WTF?? She expected me to try to patch things up between THEM? I guess I have been that much of a pushover that I would do anything not to see her upset (see codependence!) that she now expects me to do it, even in this situation.

I have decided I need to establish a few "minimum requirements" as referenced on a different amazing post on here. These minimums are NC and MC, given how messed up this situation is, I don't see any way to move forward without her seeing a C. Does that sound like a reasonable minimum req'mt?

Believe me dude, you are the most patient person alive to ONLY be requiring that. I'm not a good source of advice right now necessarily, due to my own jacked up situation with my WH, but I feel your pain. Do you have hard proof of the affair in a safe place? If not, I would make getting that priority #1. If this comes down to a custody fight, YOU need to fight for your kids to be with the sane parent.

Then lay down the requirements, wait, watch and enforce.

NC and MC are the bare minimum. Keep the 180 - you can't R with someone who hates you.

Also, NC is not for a while. It's forever.

traildad--you are dealing with a 2 year old mentality right now. You have taken away her most favoritest toy and she's pissed off and she's gonna let you know it. She'll pout, she'll sulk, she'll call you names...blah, blah, blah.

As long as she stays NC and starts IC then one of 2 things is gonna happen. She'll either clear up her crazy thinking and wonder what the heck she was doing OR she'll continue seeing you as the big, bad man that wouldn't let her play with her friend anymore.

Oh, and don't think about calling OM to smooth things over between them or to apologize for all the bad things you've said about him. (insert MAJOR sarcasm)

You may not see the humor in this, but your last few postings of her conversations with you have been extremely humorous. She's ridiculous.

Oh, and more to your actual point? I think that her getting into IC is more important than MC at this point. Unless you find a really good MC that is skilled with infidelity issues.

NC is an absolute must. Not negotiable.

With that attitude, I doubt she really ended it. She told you what you wanted to hear because she couldn't manipulate you any more. And her comment really means "Don't call him because I don't want you to find out the truth" which is either A. It never ended or B. He ended it, not her.

And I'll bet it all goes back to what it was as soon as the family is gone and she isn't afraid you'll out her. This screams "just for show" to me. I hope I'm wrong.

You guys were right. She was NC for less than an hour, if she even told him NC. Probably just seeing how I would react. She is texting him now in the same room as me. Miracles aren't happening.

I don't have any concrete proof beyond phone bills showing hours of calls and thousands of texts. I might have to record a conversation or something. She confessed the original A to me after I overheard them on the phone. I have no smoking gun. You think I'll need one? I am in a no-fault state.

she asks me to buy the flight as a gift to her

It never ceases to amaze me the giant brass b@lls WS's have! Asking you to pay to facilitate her affair. AMAZING...

My FWS actually got me to by him an iPhone... little did I know it was so it would be more convenient for him to text his MOW girlfriend. AND also got me to buy him a wireless headset so he could Skype her hands free while I was at work. They all seem to work off the same handbook don't they?

Funny you mention the iPhone. I got her one a few months before all of this started.

trail....

You are doing pretty good considering you got horse kicked in the teeth....

First...my bullshit meter is pegging on your concerns that it was "only an EA"...sorry, i aint buying it.....lingere?? No sex?? - bullshit!! And im sorry....

Second...hell yeah, demand an NC letter, and IC for your wife...these are a "must do"...the catch is - what are you gonna do when she takes this affair underground?? Many affairs go underground...hell...expect it...do not put your head into the sand...pay attention. Make copies of cell phone bills, and keep 'em in a safe place....they may come in handy later...

third....any way to verify they OM is married or not?? Your wife is NOT a good source of this information. Can you verify it from anywhere else???

Fourth....cheaters lie. This is a given....expect it....at this point in my FWWs affiar - i didnt believe anything she said...

Fifth...R is NOT gonna happen if your WW and her BF are in ANY contact...yes, ANY CONTACT...it will not work if they have a secret cell phone....NC is a must.

You can overcome infidelity within a marriage....it can happen...mine did. But...take alot of work on both parties...and alot of time. Actions speak louder than words....

Your wife broke up with the BF?....be careful...it may just go underground....many do.....

Remorse?? Bro...until you get a "snotting, blubbering, crying, im so sorry i hurt you, mascara dripping off of her chin" apology....she's just pissin' on your leg....there is a difference between remorse and regret.....your W is not "there" yet..yeah, shes sorry...sorry she got caught.....no remorse for her yet.....

I suggest talking to an attorney, outing the affair to family members, research this other dudes maritial status, get her into IC for her pre-affair issues, and be firm in your requirements for R......there are several topics that have "bulls-eyes" in the margins - i recommend that you read them...they are here in JFO and are sometimes buried on pages 2 thru 5....read them...and read all you can on that 180 process..then do it!!!

Never forget that none of this bullshit is your fault....you have zero blame....

Keep us posted.....

Bufffalo

I had a couple of emails and text messages from my WH to sOW, but nothing sexual. Most emails were work related, although some were at strange hours. None of the texts were sexual, but they were also at odd hours. Example: "Everything would be so much better if I could just rest my head on your chest." Yuck.

I did some exposing of my WH because his sOW was a black woman. We live in the south and he works in city government which is very political and racially charged. (white mayor, majority black city council power struggle). I would expose her to her family. No reason to hide it, your kids are young. There is really no reason that they would ever find out, and if she leaves you for him, they will find out anyway.

Good luck to you. My WH has been doing what he should, but his LTA lasted for 3 years, and he denied anything was happening the entire time. He still denied it 2 days before I actually had evidence. I could never get concrete proof before. I wish I had exposed the situation, but I was also worried about my kids and family. At some point, I decided it was best to live in a broken family than be alone (co-dependency issues).

He kept his phone close, and always deleted his phone logs, web history and texts. If you can, get her phone when she is showering. If it is password protected, I would accidently spill something on it out of spite. Anything to make it harder for them to communicate, if only for a couple of days. Remove long distance from your home phone, and "break" your internet service. Ours goes out all the time, amazing how it happened so much when he was in the fog.

Put pressure on her to get off the fence. Your kids deserve the love and attention of both parents.

Please gather the evidence of her affair. Make copies of the phone logs. Be sure you have copies on your person, and copies in a lock box, or a trusted friend. IF or when you are ready to lay down your line in the sand, she has minutes to decide. IF you decide to tell her how it's going to be and that is ending the AFFAIR, let her know about your evidence and all the people who will be getting copies, including her mother. If you want to really freak her out, tell her you are willing to give her an amicable divorce. Tell her you only want to stay in the house with the kids, in the most calm manner possible. If she chooses you, draft a NC letter to OM together.(There are articles on this site about the NC letter-please read.) She must give you all access after that. Full transparency and remorse. If she chooses OM, then she must leave, not you. Do not leave the house or your kids. Before you even think about doing the 'ultimatum' please see a lawyer and know your rights. Be prepared. This will take time. If she leaves, you will need a legal separation asap so that she cannot empty accounts. A lawyer will help you with the financials. Finally, please be strong. Don't engage in arguments with her. IF you really want a good outcome and IF for you that means saving your marriage, let her know you don't want her to leave, but she has to give up the OM. Stay calm, no matter how many dumb things she continues to say. All of the things she is saying so far, are just plain outrageous. Don't believe a word of it. This isn't your fault, and it's certainly NOT okay. Talking to the MC is not a betrayal. As a matter of fact, keep going for IC while you work this out.

Hey traildad. Stay the 180. If and only if she comes to you begging for what it will take to R and you believe that her remorse is sincere, then you can have a sit down about your requirements.

Meanwhile stay the course. She is grasping at straws to get a reaction - Your reaction: ho-hum, you have better things to do...

As far as exposure goes, if you decide to do that: maybe a letter sent to family members, friends, thanking everyone in advance for their support and understanding (especially for the children's sake) during this difficult time of transition in the wake of WW affair.

If they ask you with whom she had an affair - just say that it is an difficult for you to talk about the situation and that "the who" is irrelevant.

But if they could take some extra time to support and embrace the kids it would be a blessing.

Just a thought. I'm not sure what I'd do under these circumstances...

Stay strong! Take the kids out to the zoo, bowling, on a nature walk, to the science museum - without her. Live your life. Go out with friends. Let her experience the future she is choosing. And cancel that trip if you did pay for it.

You know as soon as I finish writing the above - I think, screw it: file fast, file hard, and expose to family. Be the alpha-male! She stepped over the line - and she forfeits any friendship due to that... But if you aren't ready to follow through - and she doesn't crack - that will backfire, and you'll always wonder "what if", I suspect.

(((traildad)))

[This message edited by Take2 at 4:19 PM, April 8th (Sunday)]