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Tactically, I think that having proof could be a huge factor in custody regardless of being a no fault state. We are talking about incest here. Maybe I am naive, but I think that should carry some weight in determining who is the best parent.

Exactly...... Hey the 180 is meant for you. It gives you space away from the drama and time to manuver. Well she has given you the answer you seek. She wants OM not you or the M. As was said get your ducks lined up. See a lawyer. File for D and cut off all financial assistance to her. Seek custody of the children. Im sure you have a geat case with the incest going on. Also ask that she pay you CS. Time to up the ante.

Hugs, TrailDad,

I think you previously said you had talked to a lawyer. PLEASE, please file at least separation papers that force her to keep kids in your state.

My brother lost his kids after his whore wife left for another man and moved two states away!! There was NOTHING he could do. He has been fighting it for 3 years! He goes to court again this week - but it doesn't look like they (the courts) care.

PLEASE talk to a good lawyer about how to protect your kids from being ripped from their daddy (the only sane parent they have.)

HUGS!

Just one more person here to tell you that the end to all of this drama is within your own self.

Your (3) options are the most logical choices to follow...with a little deviation along the way. But the core choices of you taking it or not taking it are all that matter at this point.

You need to find some constructive anger. You need to take control of this situation. SHE.IS.FLAUNTING.THIS.IN.YOUR.EFFING.FACE. How much more will you take?

[This message edited by jb3199 at 5:20 AM, April 11th (Wednesday)]

Thanks everyone. I am going to act to blow this up. No doubt about that. I am getting my ducks in a row, so to speak, but this interim time while I do this and she flaunts it is brutal.

Lots of advice here, and you notice that it is pretty consistent. It is not always that so many different people on here totally agree on a situation.

It took me a while, but I finally realized that the M that I was mourning or pining for was really an illusion. It was only a fairy tale for me, not for her. If your WW felt the same way you did about you or your M she wouldn't be doing this.

A wise person on here has said whoever cares less about the relationship or marriage has the most control. That would be her right now. Stop caring about her. Worry about you. Like Jackson said, "Pull the pin."

I just had my IC session this morning. He 100% agrees with what has been said here, that she needs to be given an ultimatum to choose a) D or b) NC, IC, R. and I can never settle for c).

What he feels is not important is the timing. He feels she is so deeply obsessed, etc. it won't change if I wait a week to get my ducks in a row, line up some support from friends, etc. In the meantime, he said detach (180 ) and live my life.

He thought it would be good to get her to see him, so he can be the "bad guy" so to speak. I don't necessarily agree with that advice, I feel like I need to be the strong, authoritative one at this point, not pawn it off to him.

Sending your WW to your IC would be a waste of money, IMO.

You really are holding all of the cards right now as far as timing goes. My fear is that the longer that you wait--the more emotional damage she will inflict on you. Even if you are detached/detaching, you are not going to be able to begin healing yourself with her carrying on right in front of you. You will die a little more every day.

I am really sorry and I wish that I could wave my magic wand at your WW and make her knock her dumb shit off....sadly, I can't. Take care of you and your kidlets. ((hugs))

(and just for informational purposes only--there are many states in which it is actually legal to marry your first cousin. )

Since my long, drawn-out problematic relationship with the serial philandered ended, I have never agreed with giving someone an ultimatum because I believe that just makes the other person feel cornered, and even if they rule in your favour, they will be hedging their bets because they feel pressured into the decision. And quite frankly, I also believe the person doesn’t DESERVE to make the decision. The decision in a cheating scenario is MINE, and mine alone. Making that decision is something I find very empowering. I am strong; I am not a wimp. That’s what my making the decision means to me. Consequently, I’d be more likely to say, “Look, this isn’t working for me, so I am filing for divorce/separation because it is the right thing for ME.” Cheating spouses feel the whole world is about them and I’m like, Hey, buddy, it’s time you figured out that isn’t the case.”

Way back in 2003, I was seeing a man who was also seeing another woman, which was fine with me because I was dating another chap as well. Nothing serious on any front. When I found myself becoming closer to him and sad because I resented the time he spent with other person, I gave him the “This isn’t working, so, sorry, my friend, but I’m doing what’s best for me and ending this” speech. He lasted less than a week before he called and told me that being without me made him realize how much he always looked forward to our time together. He also told me that I was smart to end it as I had, because if I had given him an ultimatum, his back would have been up. That man and I have now been together monogamously for almost nine years.

I’m not saying this approach will work for everyone, but I firmly believe it works much better than forcing someone to choose you over someone else.

Edited to add: And it makes me feel like the one driving the bus, instead of the passenger about to be flung around.

[This message edited by lynnm1947 at 9:59 AM, April 11th (Wednesday)]

Bit of a different take on emotional damage here.

I think I suffered the most emotional damage while my STBX was in what one wise friend here termed dry adultery, and we were attempting to R after her EA. (Confirmed EA, not her choice, just logistical problems.)

When my STBX started up a new A and was blatantly carrying on, it was actually very cathartic for me. No more pretense, no more wondering what was going on or when it was going to happen. Suddenly my path became clear, and I could pursue it with my head held high and a song in my heart. Granted, at first it was a pretty angry song that was in my heart, but that too changed. I am actually feeling really good. Much better than I would have if she had not been so blatant. It has allowed me to let go of all regrets about the end of my marriage and 25 year relationship.

by ducks in a row....what do you mean exactly.

I waited 24 hrs.....I nuked it to his BW, her family, our friends.....everyone.

it took 7 days....by the end of 7 days she didn't even know what the hell happened...I had destroyed the A so badly that she de fogged on a dime the day the BW found out. Its hard, but that easy

By ducks in a row I mean:

1) I'd really love to get some proof that the exchanges have crossed beyond just friends, mostly so I can verify later that she is telling the whole truth. (I know it still an EA if the texts haven't crossed the line) Although at this point, I'm not sure I can get anything from her iPhone.

2) Tell a few close friends to get my side of the story out before she does anything. Mostly for my comfort for someone to talk to, give me strength, etc. but also someone to look out for her and the kids cause I'm not sure what the aftermath will look like.

However, since I am so tired of living like this, I think I am going to put an end to this tonight. I am not likely to get anything from the phone without significant effort (probably a few more weeks living like this), and I can easily tell friends and family if she decides against NC (or breaks NC). The friends that I want to keep a relationship with will believe me whether I get my side out first or not.

Good luck, traildad

For every one person who posts, there are another twenty reading your story and rooting for you

Let us know how it goes, if you go through with it

"I am writing this because the words I speak become jumbled with emotions and reactions. I feel hurt every time you pick up your phone to text and call him. I feel hurt everyday that you do not show true remorse for your actions. I feel hurt every single day that goes by where I am sharing you with another man. I am unable and unwilling to live in a marriage where I am sharing you. This may no longer be a sexual affair, but it is an affair of the heart. The frequency, duration, and intensity of your contact with him shows a deep emotional attachment. I have consulted an attorney and feel we can maturely agree on a future apart that saves us financially and spares the kids a drawn out process. "

This is what I've decided to say, either verbally, or in a letter. I have decided not to give an ultimatum as this will make her feel cornered, and she will do just enough to keep me from taking action. This way, I have already decided to divorce instead of staying in the current situation. It serves the same purpose as the ultimatum, because if she doesn't try to change my mind, then I have my answer that she wants out, but if she begs, pleads, etc. to change my mind, then I will ask for my minimum demands (NC and IC, to start). I feel this may make such a plea more sincere as it is not coerced. Any thoughts?

That's all good. I would end it by stating what you want to happen next ie who is sleeping where, when/where you are meeting her to discuss arrangements for the kids or the house sale or whatever. Something concrete. Get the wheels moving so she realises its a reality not an abstract idea.

I'm for exposing, not necessarily the ultimatum. Exposing will make the A very difficult to maintain.

Tell her parents, and any friends who are around the OM and your WW. Is the OM married? If so tell his BW. You need to do this stuff ASAP!

Are you going to ask her to leave if she refuses to R? Don't you leave. Can you care for the kids alone? ((trialdad))

I began the exposing process tonight, I went and told some very good friends of ours. We are going out of town the next two days, on Friday I plan to tell her the above and tell her mom.

Can you care for the kids alone?

I already am

Good luck Traildad.

(((hugs)))

Don't accept a half hearted NC followed by anger. It's all or nothing.

"I am writing this because the words I speak become jumbled with emotions and reactions. I feel hurt every time you pick up your phone to text and call him. I feel hurt everyday that you do not show true remorse for your actions. I feel hurt every single day that goes by where I am sharing you with another man. I am unable and unwilling to live in a marriage where I am sharing you. This may no longer be a sexual affair, but it is an affair of the heart. The frequency, duration, and intensity of your contact with him shows a deep emotional attachment. I have consulted an attorney and feel we can maturely agree on a future apart that saves us financially and spares the kids a drawn out process. "

Hold on there, Cowboy. Can I make a suggestion or two?

Too many words, and too much emotion. Heartfelt and true it may be, but in her fog she isn't going to appreciate it. In her state, she will hear blah blah whine cling blah temper tantrum cry baby blah. She hasn't reacted to your hurt yet. I don't think she's going to start now.

Also, it doesn't matter if it isn't a PA now (and we don't REALLY know that anyway). She is in active contact with her AP which is 100% unacceptable in any sort of sustainable R. Period. No concessions for not really having a total full blown A in your face.

I would go with something much shorter, more direct, and a bit more powerful. Something that states it like it is, 180 style.

WW, you are actively engaging in an extramarital affair. I will not accept infidelity of any kind this marriage. Since you are unresponsive to my repeated request that you stop and focus on our relationship, I will be filing for D. I will be remaining in the home with the children.

Cold maybe. But you're kicking her off the fence. It should be a swift kick with a hard boot, not a fluffy pillow.

I'm sorry it's come to this for you. Come see us down in S & D for more detailed advice. We understand.